Not By Works
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We have also asked...HOW MANY WORKS are necessary...1, 10. 50 HOW MANY?
They will never answer that question because it will expose the works for salvation belief system for what it really is when you boil it all down and what they are really promoting under the disguise of "not believing" anymore.
The outcome of this teaching and believe in the "work for maintain salvation" ( which they know enough to deny because everyone knows Eph. 2:8-9 ) is that our loving Father and Lord who redeemed us with His own blood sends His beloved children to hell and then to the lake of fire.
It's an anti-Christ belief system that denies Christ our Lord and what He has already done.
We are saved by believing in what Christ Himself has done when we hear the gospel message that through Christ - our sins are forgiven for all time.
The message of Christ brings the faith needed to access the grace of what He has already done by God's doing only.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
"have been saved" is the perfect tense and it is passive in Greek.
Perfect tense = The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.
Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.
The process for salvation which is only found in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection is simple too.
1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him
2) we believe the message from our hearts
3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit
( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also,after listening to the message of truth, = 1) the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2) you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)
you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past.
Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.
We can either believe the gospel of the grace of Christ or try to save ourselves by what we do. I choose to believe in what Christ has done by His work of righteousness alone. Let each be persuaded in their own hearts.
Whether people are truly saved by believing in what Christ has done is up to the Lord to decide. Whether they actually did believe in their hearts and receive Christ or not is the real question.
I agree as there are many people making "mental assent" to being a Christian but true belief is of the heart - not in the mind nor by trying to mimic the Christian life by "being good" and going to church... "doing good deeds"...etc.
If they truly are saved and not manifesting the fruit of an exchanged life - then the Lord will discipline them in His child-training as He does to all of us.
I don't believe in watering down the message of the true gospel of the grace of Christ because some will have a mental assent to it.
The whole truth of the gospel is in "believing" in Christ and in His finished work.
I believe we need to be preaching and teaching the gospel more boldly then ever so that people can truly believe in what Christ has done.
Paul prayed for this to happen to believers. Notice Paul said : and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe - not to those that do good works.
Ephesians 1:15-20 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers;
[SUP]17 [/SUP] that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints
,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
[SUP]20 [/SUP] which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
I believe this is why Paul said to those in a letter to Corinth - examine yourselves to see if Christ is indeed in you. See if you are really in the faith.
You can live a good moral life and go to church every day, pray 3 hours a day, pastor a church for 30 years, be able to read the scriptures in Greek and Hebrew, give all your money to the poor and still not have "Christ in you". These are all "good works" within themselves.
I agree as there are many people making "mental assent" to being a Christian but true belief is of the heart - not in the mind nor by trying to mimic the Christian life by "being good" and going to church... "doing good deeds"...etc.
If they truly are saved and not manifesting the fruit of an exchanged life - then the Lord will discipline them in His child-training as He does to all of us.
I don't believe in watering down the message of the true gospel of the grace of Christ because some will have a mental assent to it.
The whole truth of the gospel is in "believing" in Christ and in His finished work.
I believe we need to be preaching and teaching the gospel more boldly then ever so that people can truly believe in what Christ has done.
Paul prayed for this to happen to believers. Notice Paul said : and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe - not to those that do good works.
Ephesians 1:15-20 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers;
[SUP]17 [/SUP] that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints
,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
[SUP]20 [/SUP] which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
I believe this is why Paul said to those in a letter to Corinth - examine yourselves to see if Christ is indeed in you. See if you are really in the faith.
You can live a good moral life and go to church every day, pray 3 hours a day, pastor a church for 30 years, be able to read the scriptures in Greek and Hebrew, give all your money to the poor and still not have "Christ in you". These are all "good works" within themselves.
Hi Grace,
The way you word this......it's not true. Only 1 example is shown, but it by no means that either one of them had only 1 example of works during their lifetime living out their faith in God.
The Great Hall of Faith (full of good works)
Hebrews 11
By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going.
By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised. Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants as the stars of heaven in number, and innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; it was he to whom it was said, “IN Isaac your descendants shall be called.” He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.
By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, even regarding things to come.
By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.
By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gave orders concerning his bones.
By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.
By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.
By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing Him who is unseen.
By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that he who destroyed the firstborn would not touch them.
By faith they passed through the Red Sea as though they were passing through dry land; and the Egyptians, when they attempted it, were drowned.
By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days.
By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in peace.
And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.
The way you word this......it's not true. Only 1 example is shown, but it by no means that either one of them had only 1 example of works during their lifetime living out their faith in God.
The Great Hall of Faith (full of good works)
Hebrews 11
By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going.
By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised. Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants as the stars of heaven in number, and innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; it was he to whom it was said, “IN Isaac your descendants shall be called.” He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.
By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, even regarding things to come.
By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.
By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gave orders concerning his bones.
By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.
By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.
By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing Him who is unseen.
By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that he who destroyed the firstborn would not touch them.
By faith they passed through the Red Sea as though they were passing through dry land; and the Egyptians, when they attempted it, were drowned.
By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days.
By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in peace.
And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.
I agree. If our eternal destination is based on what we do or don't do. How much works and for how long and what kind would be a handy dandy piece of information to have. I mean - after all our loving father wills end us to hell for not doing good deeds....what nonsense...only a religious devil could come up with that craziness and some of us are gullible enough to believe in that nonsense.
No, thank God for the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
Brethren - we are not redeemed until our next failure. The blood of the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of better things.
We have eternal redemption because of what Christ has already done and the fact that we are one spirit with Him. In Him we have eternal redemption through His blood - not by what we do or don't do.
Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Colossians 1:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
We have = present tense - present tense is always present tense. When tomorrow comes - it will be present tense then too.
Does this make us want to go out and sin all we want? No, a thousand times No! Of course not - why?
Because "knowing this truth" releases the grace of God in our lives to operate to produce His life in and through us. Jesus said "You shall know the truth and that truth shall make you free."
It's time to "repent and believe the gospel" like Jesus said in Mark 1:15 After all it is not called the "good news" for no reason.
We have a great and wondrous salvation but it is all in Christ and what He has already done. We receive this all by grace through faith. As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him in like manner.
No, thank God for the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
Brethren - we are not redeemed until our next failure. The blood of the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of better things.
We have eternal redemption because of what Christ has already done and the fact that we are one spirit with Him. In Him we have eternal redemption through His blood - not by what we do or don't do.
Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Colossians 1:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
We have = present tense - present tense is always present tense. When tomorrow comes - it will be present tense then too.
Does this make us want to go out and sin all we want? No, a thousand times No! Of course not - why?
Because "knowing this truth" releases the grace of God in our lives to operate to produce His life in and through us. Jesus said "You shall know the truth and that truth shall make you free."
It's time to "repent and believe the gospel" like Jesus said in Mark 1:15 After all it is not called the "good news" for no reason.
We have a great and wondrous salvation but it is all in Christ and what He has already done. We receive this all by grace through faith. As we have received Christ - so we walk in Him in like manner.
Read James account "in context" which is what we are talking about. No one is saying that they only did one thing in their life. James is talking about them doing "one thing" to exhibit their faith. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
This is a one time event that James used to "describe Abraham's faith in action".
James 2:21-22 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP] You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Here is the very same thing - James showing the one time act of faith that Rahab did.
James 2:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
These were one time events in their life that showed they had faith no matter how people try to make into something else. It's plain as day but people are free to believe whatever they want.
It's the same for us when we hear the gospel message of Christ and the forgiveness of sins. We have a corresponding action to the message and we believe with our heart and confess that Jesus is Lord.
Abraham believed the word of God and was declared righteous 15 years before he put his son on the altar.
This is a one time event that James used to "describe Abraham's faith in action".
James 2:21-22 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP] You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Here is the very same thing - James showing the one time act of faith that Rahab did.
James 2:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
These were one time events in their life that showed they had faith no matter how people try to make into something else. It's plain as day but people are free to believe whatever they want.
It's the same for us when we hear the gospel message of Christ and the forgiveness of sins. We have a corresponding action to the message and we believe with our heart and confess that Jesus is Lord.
Abraham believed the word of God and was declared righteous 15 years before he put his son on the altar.
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It insults God that Christians work for Him?
The hyper faith movement is getting worse and worse.
What else insults God?
When we confess our sins?
When we do our good works?
When we pray?
When we encourage each other?
When we Honor God's Holy day?
etc
etc
And unfortunately that is one of the reasons to not interact with this type of behavior and it only creates strife and division.
We can just post our beliefs and leave it in the hands of the Lord. He will bring the truth to all of us. He is faithful. We have a great Savior who loves us dearly and loves to be with us.
E
it's a huge difference, if I did works my father The was proven, I d not have to prove anything from that point forward,
if if I did not have faith, as James said, I will never have any works.
God knows at the point of salvation if it is real or not, that thought you have to prove to God if your faith is real r not is, well...
and if if this is true, it still does not refute eternal security, your right, it will grow, but even faith in everything goes up and down, but that does not mean it is dead,
again, if you never had faith, it was dead. Period,
as as the man said, of course I believe lord, help me in my unbelief, and god healed his child
God does not fail us, or give us a reason to lose all hope, let alone faith,
It's not a problem at all, a child does not go from Faith the a complete lack of faith, now, he may never had faith begin with, but if hide, god promised, he will complete the work he started, you ether believe him or you don't, if you do not believe him in. That he can you claim you have faith in God to save you?
if if I did not have faith, as James said, I will never have any works.
God knows at the point of salvation if it is real or not, that thought you have to prove to God if your faith is real r not is, well...
and if if this is true, it still does not refute eternal security, your right, it will grow, but even faith in everything goes up and down, but that does not mean it is dead,
again, if you never had faith, it was dead. Period,
as as the man said, of course I believe lord, help me in my unbelief, and god healed his child
God does not fail us, or give us a reason to lose all hope, let alone faith,
It's not a problem at all, a child does not go from Faith the a complete lack of faith, now, he may never had faith begin with, but if hide, god promised, he will complete the work he started, you ether believe him or you don't, if you do not believe him in. That he can you claim you have faith in God to save you?
Here's what he said:
Originally Posted by jodyb View Post
You say "works are a required part of salvation". I would agree that works are part of a Christian life, but not a required part of salvation. To me, that insults the sacrifice our Savior made for us.
He said that "WORKS ARE NOT A REQUIRED PART OF SALVATION.
That insults the sacrifice made for us."
So, works are not a part of salvation.
We need not do any works to keep our salvation.
It insults the sacrifice made for us.
What did I not understand??
I say it insults God if we DO NOT do our part of good works for Him as Jesus commanded.
Originally Posted by jodyb View Post
You say "works are a required part of salvation". I would agree that works are part of a Christian life, but not a required part of salvation. To me, that insults the sacrifice our Savior made for us.
He said that "WORKS ARE NOT A REQUIRED PART OF SALVATION.
That insults the sacrifice made for us."
So, works are not a part of salvation.
We need not do any works to keep our salvation.
It insults the sacrifice made for us.
What did I not understand??
I say it insults God if we DO NOT do our part of good works for Him as Jesus commanded.