Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Talking about hell

AGAIN

And YOU, of course, know everyone who is going there.

We should use correct terms. Like these:

OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW
OBEDIENCE OF FAITH

Big difference.
But the Law is obeyed in both.
Too bad we can't talk about this.
All we want to do is show how the other person is wrong.

god talks about eternal death a lot, I think we should also

you can obey them as much as you can you will still fall short of Gods glory

if we can not get true Slavic faith right, those mean nothing. The Jews obeyed the law, and believed they had faith also, he crucified Christ for telling them they were not good enough, and a man named Saul went and imprisoned many of his followers, they had faith they were right, and doing works of faith,

 

[FranC]

That is the $7 dollar question no one can answer. No one because it's contrary to faith alone in Christ alone.

No one answers it because it's a silly question and we're trying to have a serious conversation.

Read Romans 12:1
That's your answer.

YOU are a living sacrifice.
That means EVERYTHING YOU DO.

No mystery.

in John 14:15 JESUS said,
"If you love Me, you will keep My COMMANDMENTS."

What are Jesus' commandments?
Do they require work?

This is a question that needs to be answered between YOU and GOD.

No one here can answer it for you, except to say that JESUS REQUIRES you to do good works and keep His commandments IF you love Him.

 

[royalscot]

Grace people do not teach those are bad, their you go slandering people again, I will add this to the list of slander being spewed by people against grace

you need wind to inhale air, and with free will ,can pick and choose ,who they ignore.
they problem with slander, it will not hit heaven, if the truth sets you free, then its your choice , to slander a lie, is that why you repent and now are ignore by god ,why dose a foundation, needs to be explain to a liar, who claims to walk in faith, ignore facts. did it not understand the meaning of savior, it now needs proof.

saviour
ˈseɪvjə/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]noun: savior[/COLOR]

• a person who saves someone or something from danger or difficulty.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"politicians of the era usually portray themselves as the nation's saviours"[/COLOR]
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]rescuer, liberator, deliverer, emancipator; More
  
  
  
  
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  
  • (in Christianity) God or Jesus Christ as the redeemer of sin and saver of souls.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]noun: Saviour; noun: Savior[/COLOR]
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:saviourˈseɪvjə/
    noun
    
    
    • a person who saves someone or something from danger or difficulty.
      "politicians of the era usually portray themselves as the nation's saviours"
      [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
      [TR]
      [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
      [TD]rescuer, liberator, deliverer, emancipator; More
      
      
      
      
      
      [/TD]
      [/TR]
      [/TABLE]
      
      
      
      • (in Christianity) God or Jesus Christ as the redeemer of sin and saver of souls.
        noun: Saviour; noun: Savior
        [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
        [TR]
        [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
        [TD]Christ, Jesus, Jesus Christ, the Redeemer, the Messiah, Our Lord, the Lamb of God,the Son of God, the Son of Man, the Prince of Peace, the King of Kings, Emmanuel"in the centre of the mosaic, the Saviour is depicted, attended by two archangels"
        
        
        [/TD]
        [/TR]
        [/TABLE]
        
        
        
      
      
      
      
    
    
    [/TD]
    [TD]Christ, Jesus, Jesus Christ, the Redeemer, the Messiah, Our Lord, the Lamb of God,the Son of God, the Son of Man, the Prince of Peace, the King of Kings, Emmanuel"in the centre of the mosaic, the Saviour is depicted, attended by two archangels
    
    
    
    
    
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    
    
    
  
  
  
  

 

[UnderGrace]

Amazes me you can make such declarations which are diametrically opposed to the scripture.

Here's what he said:


Originally Posted by jodyb View Post

You say "works are a required part of salvation". I would agree that works are part of a Christian life, but not a required part of salvation. To me, that insults the sacrifice our Savior made for us.

He said that "WORKS ARE NOT A REQUIRED PART OF SALVATION.
That insults the sacrifice made for us."

So, works are not a part of salvation.
We need not do any works to keep our salvation.
It insults the sacrifice made for us.

What did I not understand??

I say it insults God if we DO NOT do our part of good works for Him as Jesus commanded.

 

[Grace777x70]

The point I'm making is that we use the whole counsel of God and not just James.

It's noted in Hebrews that by faith, Abraham obeyed right away when God called him from his home to go to a place he didn't even know which would later be the Jews inheritance. That was Abraham's faith proved by his obedience (works). So from the very beginning we see him faithfully obeying his God and throughout his life he lived a life of obedience.

So it wasn't 15 years later that Abraham was declared righteous. It was from the very start ....... when God said to Abraham to leave his father and all his relatives and go.

Abraham believed the word of God when spoken to him.

Romans 4:2-5 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."

[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

And the point I am making is that those that believe with the heart and confess Christ as Lord when hearing the message of their forgiveness of sins are exhibiting a corresponding work to their faith.

James was describing what Abraham and Rahab did to show they had faith.

How much obedience must one do in order to maintain being saved? What exactly does this obedience look like? Name every thing that is needed to "keep our salvation".

We will need every detail because if not some say that our loving Father will throw His beloved children into hell and then the lake of fire. ( despite what Christ has done for us ) - and that is the outcome of those that say we must do good works in order to keep salvation.

 

[Sully]

No one answers it because it's a silly question and we're trying to have a serious conversation.

Read Romans 12:1
That's your answer.

YOU are a living sacrifice.
That means EVERYTHING YOU DO.

No mystery.

in John 14:15 JESUS said,
"If you love Me, you will keep My COMMANDMENTS."

What are Jesus' commandments?
Do they require work?

This is a question that needs to be answered between YOU and GOD.

No one here can answer it for you, except to say that JESUS REQUIRES you to do good works and keep His commandments IF you love Him.

Well if it's silly to you and the silly aka foolish of this world will confound the wise, you can finish the rest...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Same difference.

JESUS Himself said we are to do many good works.
You are saying that if we do them, we're insulting Jesus because it means His sacrifice wasn't sufficient.

See, EG, I understand, I don't agree.

So basically, Jesus said to do good works but if I do them I insult Him.

Read that over a few times...

jesus never said we must do these works to save ourself r to keep ourself saved, that's why he died to save us,

saying we must work work to maintain salvation, no t because we are saved, is an insult to his sacrifice

 

[UnderGrace]

Actually you know you have no answer.

At least when I did follow the Catholic teaching I knew enough to say, I will find out when I die.

No one answers it because it's a silly question and we're trying to have a serious conversation.

Read Romans 12:1
That's your answer.

YOU are a living sacrifice.
That means EVERYTHING YOU DO.

No mystery.

in John 14:15 JESUS said,
"If you love Me, you will keep My COMMANDMENTS."

What are Jesus' commandments?
Do they require work?

This is a question that needs to be answered between YOU and GOD.

No one here can answer it for you, except to say that JESUS REQUIRES you to do good works and keep His commandments IF you love Him.

 

[FranC]

Well if it's silly to you and the silly aka foolish of this world will confound the wise, you can finish the rest...

Hmmmm.

Maybe your answer to me above shows why NO ONE answers you.
I won't either next time....

 

[Sully]

Hmmmm.

Maybe your answer to me above shows why NO ONE answers you.
I won't either next time....

It wasn't a question...

 

[FranC]

Actually you know you have no answer.

At least when I did follow the Catholic teaching I knew enough to say, I will find out when I die.

That's for sure UG.
So make sure you have it right.
God is a just God...

 

[FranC]

It wasn't a question...

Did YOU not ask HOW MANY WORKS we must do?

When YOU ASKED, was that not a QUESTION?

Just checking...

End of story.

 

[royalscot]

when did, i need a human agreement, to enter heaven, yet with there account of scripture. they exclude not only them self, but there family as well. your only as good as your human teacher.

 

[Sully]

Did YOU not ask HOW MANY WORKS we must do?

When YOU ASKED, was that not a QUESTION?

Just checking...

End of story.

Nope I know that answer.

 

[UnderGrace]

So then you will not know until you die?

Well thankfully, Jesus got it Perfectly Right, and when I fail I claim His righteousness not my own.

And that Perfect righteousness is what gets me to heaven.

My works are in Him, so that others will believe too, accept His righteousness and have eternal life!!

That's for sure UG.
So make sure you have it right.
God is a just God...

 

[royalscot]

now take it up with, who pays a human teacher, to eat and inhale air, and at the same time, explain why ,you are tying to building a law, that was condemned the day they killed a saviour. \0/

 

[Grace777x70]

Resting in Christ and works? What does it mean to enter into the rest of Christ? Does this mean we do nothing?

I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

For it is God who is at work in us - both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He gives us both the desire and the capability. Phil. 2:13

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations to our natural humanistic minds that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in His good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things by the flesh and the Lord doing things through and in us. ( there is good looking flesh and bad looking flesh - but it is all still flesh )

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

Notice that both groups of people are "building the house" or "doing good works" - one is building by the Lord working with in and through them - the other is doing it in their own self-effort.

Only the Lord can determine where the origin of these "good works" come from.

 

[royalscot]

logic ,has no teacher, when it can only, gather someone else s logic.
with book ,sale up to around 50 % , then ask the mental health act , why the book writers, ranted about some things, was an excuse for you to buy the book. and why did you pay, for the book to learn, how to rant like the human author. with no proof. etc

 

[dcontroversal]

Nope I know that answer.

AMEN....called a confident expectation of something GUARANTEED (HOPE)....as in eternal life through Christ dia salvation by faith based upon grace....

 

[Desertsrose]

Abraham believed the word of God when spoken to him.

Romans 4:2-5 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."

[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

And the point I am making is that those that believe with the heart and confess Christ as Lord when hearing the message of their forgiveness of sins are exhibiting a corresponding work to their faith.

James was describing what Abraham and Rahab did to show they had faith.

How much obedience must one do in order to maintain being saved? What exactly does this obedience look like? Name every thing that is needed to "keep our salvation".

We will need every detail because if not some say that our loving Father will throw His beloved children into hell and then the lake of fire. ( despite what Christ has done for us ) - and that is the outcome of those that say we must do good works in order to keep salvation.

Read the apostles teachings and you'll know what we need to do. Jesus said that the apostles would teach us all that He commanded and expects us to obey.

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

You are putting me into a category because you don't like what the word of God is saying, is that correct? I've been posting scriptures, which ones do you reject?

Where did I say that we have to work to keep our salvation?

What I have said and said many times over is that the true genuine believer with a genuine faith will work. If this one statement is incorrect, please address this. Otherwise you're reading into what I've posted.

Where have I said that one must work to keep salvation? I don't believe that and don't teach that. What I do teach is that a person with genuine faith, will work. Obedience will be an ongoing part of their walk with the Lord.

So what I'm saying here is that the new life within, the new man, the new man that has faith will begin showing this new life in Christ. He can't not but do it because the Holy Spirit leads and guides us into all truth. And if He leads us and guides us, He also gives us the power to do what we've been called to do.