Not By Works

[Meggido]

There are different functions in the body of Christ. Not all of us have the same function.

For example - let's look at the classic "go and make disciples" scripture.

First thing we do is look at who is being spoken to. In this case it is the 11 disciples.

Matthew 28:16-19 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Jesus did not say this to the over 500 people that He appeared to after His resurrection - He said it only to His 11 disciples which were commissioned to do this function within the body of Christ in that time period. The Lord is still sending people out to do this very thing today.

No where do we see Paul or Peter in their epistles telling the general body of Christ in that local for everyone to do this - to "go and make disciples". There are people in the body of Christ commissioned and called of the Lord to do this.

Sometimes in the passion for our own calling - we want others to be doing it too but it can be a mistake.

To try to make everyone to do this same thing is mis-leading and it really causes a mess because we all have a part to play and we can't do it by doing someone else's calling.

We should be supporting and encouraging those that are commissioned by the Lord to " go and make disciples" - and they should be encouraging the others to do "their calling" as well by the power of the Lord working in and through us.

In saying that - I do agree with Mediggo that we can get our focus off Christ Himself and unto a show of external things.

But I wouldn't judge all churches to be in the same boat because they could have a different function. I'll let the Lord decide that.

2 Cor 5.18-19

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, [SUP]19 [/SUP]namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Paul made it clear that every believer is to be a minister of reconciliation and make disciples....

2 Peter 1.1-12 is all about what tot each disciples...

Jesus gave the same power/commission to 70 others, right?

Jesus said to pray to the Lord of the harvest, that he would send laborers

His parables teach this....


It is everyone's Job to be the light the attracts them, the salt that makes them thirsty and then to plant the seed of Jesus in them....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/B][/COLOR]It's called 'Hypergrace'. It's sweeping through the church at this present time.

Been there done that PHart, Stephen and Peter and a few of their friends went to war. They failed to prove their point, While the WOF aspect of the so called hypergrace theology is lacking, and I would argue against it, The salvation by grace aspect is not. That is all things people have conjured up..

Everyone in this forum who says a believer is so irretrievably saved that even their return to unbelief and the life of sin that goes with it can not cause them to forfeit the eternal life they received when they first believed is a Hypergracer.

Everyone who does not believe that a person who has come to faith in God, and can lose what God calls eternal is preaching what many term legalism, and preaching a works based theology, basically modern day pharieeism.

WHat you just showed is not particularly hyper grace, it is grace period.

You are aware that '777' is Hypergrace, didn't you? I mean, depending on the particular post he is in. Sometimes he's Calvy, other times he's Hypergrace.

I am aware that he made a mistake and posted some video's from a so called preacher of hypergrace, and Stephen and a few others went after him, But Grace777 has thoroughly refuted any easy believing stuff that has been brought against him, and showed that most if not all of the stuff they have against pastor prince was found on anti joseph prince websites, and not based on fact. And that Grace777 was just using a message which showed something he was trying to say, I am sure we have all done this from time to time, I do not agree wiht everythign my pastor says,.



I also know if you look up. we are not supposed to be discussing these things, they are against the rules.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see your point Meggido...but am not sure that is the problem. I do agree that it's both ours and His.

My thought is it's about what kind of works are being spoken of, and nobody wants to define what they are.

it would also help to define what they are for.

You work for a wage, a reward, or an honor or position

so what is it we are working for?

 

[stonesoffire]

Isn't Sonship the goal?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would like DCON and EG to define that for us....

why can't you?

I know I have done so on numerous occasions. I just hinted at it a few posts ago.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you would say that the works we do are simply the outcome of growing up in the House of God as a Son PennEd?

Because that is how I view works. I would say it's works of the Spirit and still not of the natural man. The Spiritual man maturing.

Think about the two commands Jesus said if we do we will fulfill all the law and prophets.

What is the basis of those commands.

 

[stonesoffire]

Joh 1:12　 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

　

 

[stonesoffire]

Do you have a scripture that says His body will fulfill the law and prophets EG?

I know that Jesus did, but we are placed into this work.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The greatest commandment Jesus ever gave about works is this:

GO & MAKE.....

I do not see a lot of disciple making these days....this is what bearing fruit is all about...making disciples...the gifts, the grace everything given to us, should be used to GO & MAKE....

When Jesus said you will know them by their fruit...he was not talking about if personal Fruit of the Spirit are manifesting or not....he was saying you will now them by the disciples they are making....

The only works there are....is GO & MAKE.....

All we see today is:

GO & MAKE.....mega churches

GO & MAKE.....personal 1 man ministries

GO & MAKE.....volunteers

GO & MAKE.....revivals

GO & MAKE.....methods and programs

GO & MAKE.....connect groups/small groups<<<<<<<<<<which rarely have zero to do with intentional, deliberate Jesus teaching discipleship

GO & MAKE.....3 services and live/recorded video feeds of the service to small campus theaters....

Worse we see:

GO & TAKE.....

GO & GET.....

GO & GRAB.....

GO & GIVE.....

GO & PLANT.....

GO & DEBATE, ARGUE, DEFEND...

GO & SIT......

GO & STAGNATE.....

GO & IGNORE....

GO & BE APATHETIC....

If there are no disciples being made and they are not making disciples, we are not doing works unto Father, or bearing fruit and proving to father we are not the sons disciples....

The focus on the body is all about self.....not about dying to self, so that you bear much fruit[disciples]

Nope. this is not the greatest command,

The greatest commandment Jesus ever gave is this, That you should love the lord you God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul, and the second is like it, That you should love your neighbor as yourself (the question is who is your neighbor)


Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”...



If we do those to. the "Go" commands will be automatically fulfilled.

If we make the go commands a law. of do this or else. We are not working out of love, we are working out of requirement, or performance based action which we either expect to receive something in return, even if that something in return is lack of punishment, It is still for self gain, not out of love

As scripture says, if we have all things, but have not love, we are useless.

 

[dcontroversal]

it is obvious you do not know DC at all, or you would never ask such a thing.

I know....you notice....I did not even respond..........no need

 

[Magenta]

Children of God
[video=youtube;1pn6Ry46KOc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pn6Ry46KOc[/video]

Praise to the Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ
Our God and our King, to Him we will sing
In His great mercy, He has given us life
Now we can be called the children of God

Great is the Love that the Father has given us
He has delivered us
He has delivered us

Children of God, sing your song and rejoice
For the love that He has given us all
Children of God, by the blood of His Son
We have been redeemed and we can be called
Children of God
Children of God

A mystery is revealed to the universe
The Father above has proven His love
Now we are free from the judgment that we deserve
And so we are called the children of God

We are the saints
We are the children
We've been redeemed
We've been forgiven
We are the sons and daughters of our God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If the people in church are not disciples and are not being preached and taught scripture,
and life in Christ, they are incapable of making disciples, because they may have not become
them themselves.

And what do people who believe and walk in something the bible condemns in their hearts?
The create a version where they can stay as they are, believe they have arrived and pat
themselves on the back this is what Jesus intended allllllll along.

My God peter. over a year here and your still teaching this slanderous lie that people think we can get saved and not do anything.

When will you ever learn

 

[Meggido]

Isn't Sonship the goal?

Are you not made a son instantly at conversion?

People stay at the cross of conversion, because they are not taught its not about them anymore.....

A kingdom is not about the individual, it is about the king and how to expand the kingdom....

One of the greatest lie's Satan has sold the church is that, your walk is all about you and only how you work it out....nothing and nobody else matters....people grief me all the time for this, but if you put on Holy Spirit Glasses, the modern day church in the USA is all about consumer Christians taking what they need and the church not depositing....

 

[stonesoffire]

Mat 22:40　 All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments.

Is this the scripture in your mind EG?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Isn't Sonship the goal?

God made us sons, we can not make ourselves sons

Now what we do as sons, that is a different story.

I wish we could all be like paul, but sadly that is not the case.

 

[Grace777x70]

2 Cor 5.18-19

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, [SUP]19 [/SUP]namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Paul made it clear that every believer is to be a minister of reconciliation and make disciples....

2 Peter 1.1-12 is all about what tot each disciples...

Jesus gave the same power/commission to 70 others, right?

Jesus said to pray to the Lord of the harvest, that he would send laborers

His parables teach this....


It is everyone's Job to be the light the attracts them, the salt that makes them thirsty and then to plant the seed of Jesus in them....

I agree in principle that all of us are to be a living epistle of the grace and love of God for others however even in the letter to Corinthians in context one can see that Paul and Timothy were saying "things" to the church there and that they were the ministers. Not every one is a "sent one" as in an apostle like Paul and Timothy.

2 Corinthians 1:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia:


1 Corinthians 12:4-6 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.

1 Corinthians 12:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For the body is not one member, but many.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] If the foot says, "Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.

[SUP]16 [/SUP] And if the ear says, "Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.

1 Corinthians 12:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

[SUP]29 [/SUP] All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?


Opps...it looks like I spelled your name wrong in my original post...sorry. I have no reference point when I posted Mediggo and got it backwards. Meggido....

What does your name mean?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Joh 1:12　 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

　

yes, we become sons by faith, Not because we earned it by doing works.

 

[stonesoffire]

I can't do reply and quote now...so Meggido...

We aren't born again as a full grown mature Son of God. Or are we?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you have a scripture that says His body will fulfill the law and prophets EG?

I know that Jesus did, but we are placed into this work.

his body will? I am not sure what you mean sis?

 

[stonesoffire]

EG

Where have I said anything about doing any works? I said works are the Spirits involvement with our life growing us up into the fullness.

Works of the Spirit within. We cooperate by faith. Move with Him.