Not By Works
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You are taking the Lords name in vain.
I did not say that any churches did or did not have believers in them.
I am told some churchs in Canada admit they are atheist but like the ceremony so wish to
continue.
So you read in a polarised view to my comments, and assume they are directed in one direction.
So I cannot slander that which is a general observation and a problem.
One brother I knew went to a church suggesting the older folk should have some youth work, but
they actually preferred things just as they were. So it is you who are slandering me, and not
even recognising your own bias and animosity. Out of the heart comes what it is full of.
I did not say that any churches did or did not have believers in them.
I am told some churchs in Canada admit they are atheist but like the ceremony so wish to
continue.
So you read in a polarised view to my comments, and assume they are directed in one direction.
So I cannot slander that which is a general observation and a problem.
One brother I knew went to a church suggesting the older folk should have some youth work, but
they actually preferred things just as they were. So it is you who are slandering me, and not
even recognising your own bias and animosity. Out of the heart comes what it is full of.
A
No works don't prove you are saved...only the Holy spirit seal does.
The Holy spirit heals and retrains the heart and mind and makes our desires to be doing God's will and not our own.
Salvation is about a deep personal relationship with God and our brethren. It is MORE than doing good works like MARTHA. It is sittting at Jesus feet and spending time in His loving presence learning His truths.
The Holy spirit heals and retrains the heart and mind and makes our desires to be doing God's will and not our own.
Salvation is about a deep personal relationship with God and our brethren. It is MORE than doing good works like MARTHA. It is sittting at Jesus feet and spending time in His loving presence learning His truths.
A
Why is there this many pages of debate over salvation being "not of works"?
Last time I checked Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 4:5 were in the Bible still. That should end the debate right there. Past that you are just arguing against Scriptures and there is no place for that, you are fighting the wind, a hurricane wind at that.
so stick around and youll find out that where haters argumentitive and no good and all that jazz... nice pal and nice hatred from your part...
I haven't read all the posts but I know Bill is the least likely to hate anyone.
P
Yes, I did share what the works are that accompany salvation.
Here it is again:
Hebrews 6:9-12 NASB
...beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. 11And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Love for others, particularly for the body of Christ, is the signature of the faith that saves all by itself apart from works. This is not a sappy, feel good kind of love that feels and speaks but does not act. John tells us to love with actual deeds and from a sincere love, not love just in words:
1 John 3:14-15,18 NASB
14We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren.
15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
18Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 19We will know by this that we are of the truth...
Jesus himself said our love for one another shows us to be his disciples:
John 13:35 NASB
35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.
We can see from these passages that love, especially love for the brethren, must accompany salvation. The obedience of love is the signifying mark of the saved person. Not because the work of love makes them saved, but because saved people have the love of God in them--a sincere love that acts. They have to have that love in them or they simply do not belong to him. They have not passed from death to life yet (see above--1 John 3:14). As Paul says, the love that justifies (all by itself apart from works) is the faith that loves (Galatians 5:6 NASB).
Here it is again:
Hebrews 6:9-12 NASB
...beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. 11And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Love for others, particularly for the body of Christ, is the signature of the faith that saves all by itself apart from works. This is not a sappy, feel good kind of love that feels and speaks but does not act. John tells us to love with actual deeds and from a sincere love, not love just in words:
1 John 3:14-15,18 NASB
14We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren.
15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
18Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 19We will know by this that we are of the truth...
Jesus himself said our love for one another shows us to be his disciples:
John 13:35 NASB
35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.
We can see from these passages that love, especially love for the brethren, must accompany salvation. The obedience of love is the signifying mark of the saved person. Not because the work of love makes them saved, but because saved people have the love of God in them--a sincere love that acts. They have to have that love in them or they simply do not belong to him. They have not passed from death to life yet (see above--1 John 3:14). As Paul says, the love that justifies (all by itself apart from works) is the faith that loves (Galatians 5:6 NASB).
True biblical faith for believing is of the heart - not in the head. Rom. 10:9-10
Some things cannot come from a change of mind after things have been put into being as an established truth.
Can someone by an "act of their will" or "changing their mind" un-born themselves from being a human being?
Can they one day say "I don't want to be a human anymore so I as an act of my will by changing my mind - I am un-borning myself" ( we would think there is something wrong with this person's mind and there is..
)
Can some one by "an act of their will" through the "changing of their mind" stop being a son/daughter to someone? Of course not - they will always be the child of their parents once they are born whether they like it or not.
We can no more by "an act of our will" un-born ourselves from God which Peter says we are born again of incorruptible seed which lives and abides forever. We cannot "un-child" ourselves from being God's child because of Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.
( we can become sick in our minds as the person that wants to "un-born" themselves as a human but the real us - the inner man of the heart that is in Christ - that inner man has his will entwined with God's perfect will because of union with Christ )This is one of the reasons we need to "renew our mind" to align up with the spiritual truths that are in our new spirit in Christ.
Following God's commandments to us will be a natural result of being in Christ as we grow up in Him.
We are looking at what "we do" when we say that we lose salvation for going to heaven instead of what "Jesus has already done". It is a works-based doctrine that actually denies the work and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be with you and in you forever. (John 14:16) Now, is Jesus a liar? That's a question to ask ourselves.
Our Father will perfect that which concerns us for it is He that is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. I'll trust His love in us to "guide us" through life. Phil. 2:13
There is also discipline of the Lord ( child-training in Greek - not "un-childing" them as children ) This proves that we are legitimate children of God.
Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Some things cannot come from a change of mind after things have been put into being as an established truth.
Can someone by an "act of their will" or "changing their mind" un-born themselves from being a human being?
Can they one day say "I don't want to be a human anymore so I as an act of my will by changing my mind - I am un-borning myself" ( we would think there is something wrong with this person's mind and there is..
)Can some one by "an act of their will" through the "changing of their mind" stop being a son/daughter to someone? Of course not - they will always be the child of their parents once they are born whether they like it or not.
We can no more by "an act of our will" un-born ourselves from God which Peter says we are born again of incorruptible seed which lives and abides forever. We cannot "un-child" ourselves from being God's child because of Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.
( we can become sick in our minds as the person that wants to "un-born" themselves as a human but the real us - the inner man of the heart that is in Christ - that inner man has his will entwined with God's perfect will because of union with Christ )This is one of the reasons we need to "renew our mind" to align up with the spiritual truths that are in our new spirit in Christ.
Following God's commandments to us will be a natural result of being in Christ as we grow up in Him.
We are looking at what "we do" when we say that we lose salvation for going to heaven instead of what "Jesus has already done". It is a works-based doctrine that actually denies the work and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be with you and in you forever. (John 14:16) Now, is Jesus a liar? That's a question to ask ourselves.
Our Father will perfect that which concerns us for it is He that is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. I'll trust His love in us to "guide us" through life. Phil. 2:13
There is also discipline of the Lord ( child-training in Greek - not "un-childing" them as children ) This proves that we are legitimate children of God.
Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
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P
Yes, 'fulfill'.
Love is the fulfillment of the law:
Galatians 5:14
14For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
Probably has already been corrected by someone else, but while I was hovering over it thought I'd make sure in case it was not (it's hard to find posts to come back to later).
Love is the fulfillment of the law:
Galatians 5:14
14For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
Probably has already been corrected by someone else, but while I was hovering over it thought I'd make sure in case it was not (it's hard to find posts to come back to later).
Gal 5:24 Now those who belong to the Messiah Jesus have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 Since we live by the Spirit, by the Spirit let us also be guided.
Gal 5:26
Let's stop being arrogant, provoking one another and envying one another.
~
Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus the Messiah.
Rom 5:2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace by which we have been established, and we boast because of our hope in God's glory.
Rom 5:3 Not only that, but we also boast in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance,
Rom 5:4 endurance produces character, and character produces hope.
Rom 5:5 Now this hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
Rom 5:10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life!
Rom 5:11 Not only that, but we also continue to boast about God through our Lord Jesus the Messiah, through whom we have now been reconciled.
Works of Holy Spirit.
Eph 4:32 And be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving one another just as God has forgiven you in the Messiah.
We have to understand that we are no longer a natural man or woman. But, Spiritual being formed into His image.
It's how I see works through the NT.
Gal 5:25 Since we live by the Spirit, by the Spirit let us also be guided.
Gal 5:26
Let's stop being arrogant, provoking one another and envying one another.
~
Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus the Messiah.
Rom 5:2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace by which we have been established, and we boast because of our hope in God's glory.
Rom 5:3 Not only that, but we also boast in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance,
Rom 5:4 endurance produces character, and character produces hope.
Rom 5:5 Now this hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
Rom 5:10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life!
Rom 5:11 Not only that, but we also continue to boast about God through our Lord Jesus the Messiah, through whom we have now been reconciled.
Works of Holy Spirit.
Eph 4:32 And be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving one another just as God has forgiven you in the Messiah.
We have to understand that we are no longer a natural man or woman. But, Spiritual being formed into His image.
It's how I see works through the NT.