Not By Works
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E
yes sis, I posted it a few posts ago,
but here it is again,
Matt: 22: [SUP]35 [/SUP]Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, [SUP]36 [/SUP]“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” [SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
but here it is again,
Matt: 22: [SUP]35 [/SUP]Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, [SUP]36 [/SUP]“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” [SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Really, even broken down further it is an imperative command.....literally...not GO, but as you are going MAKE.......and this is seen in our daily lives....as we go about ur business and the opportunities arise (by God drawing people to us) we witness and make disciples....obviously we ourselves do not MAKE anyone anything...the increase is of GOD.....just think...by modern standards NOAH was a complete failure....he preached 120 years and won how many to the truth....0!
E
yes! and anything you do out of the love of God is a work of righteousness (or as was asked earlier, this is what a true work of God is) ..
Any thing you do out of self gain is a work of self righteousness. (also known as a work of the flesh)
Love is what separates the two.
a non believer can not do a work of love, because they do ot have the capacity, they can do the deed, but it would not be a work of righteousness.
Any thing you do out of self gain is a work of self righteousness. (also known as a work of the flesh)
Love is what separates the two.
a non believer can not do a work of love, because they do ot have the capacity, they can do the deed, but it would not be a work of righteousness.
I wouldn't say I have a definition as such.
what I have found it is easy to separate works as one defines them and focus on that.
What I mean by that is that I know of people who focus on works being don't do wrong.
By that I mean they focus on the things mentioned in Corinthians/Ephesians and Galatians.
So in a sense it's don't drink don't smoke what do you do.
So good works are crucifying the flesh.
Then on the other side I have seen people know they sin but it's not a big issue? Oh well I'm a sinner, God knows I will sin and he will forgive me. I'm not saying they have no regard to their sin (though I have met a few like that), but there tends to be a tendency to focus on the good things they do, like tithe and occasionally help others out.
I know the above is a bit broad brush as such and I want everyone reading this to know that I am not singling anyone out here.
I don't know any of you personally so I cannot say anything about anyone here.
Here are my thoughts.
Firstly works do not save a person. Works are a result of salvation. Some mature quicker that others.
There is no linear fashion or a constant learning curve that leads to maturity.
All are different, hurts, experiences of life, pain, and the like are things that can stunt and block maturity along with things like unforgiveness.
One simple example for me is that my mum made it clear I was a useless piece of crap who ruined her life and she only kept me because she had to (until I was 14 and through me out) Now that stunted me big time because that was how I thought God felt about me. So that life experience along with beatings for not complying and no beatings if I complied were ingrained so that's how I felt God saw me but also others.
So to me as of today what would I say works are.
We are called to do good works, works that I would say are pleasing to God.
There I have said it there are works that are pleasing to God and to me these works are encompassed in the following.
John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
Any works we do that are pleasing to God are as a result of placing faith in Jesus, if there is no faith then our works are like filthy rags and to me are an abuse of the cross.
Then I would say that the works we are to do are summed up in the following.
Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
To me waking in the first commandment should allow us to decrease and Jesus increase. That being the case sin should decrease and fruit in increase (i.e. Self control here)
As fruit increases then we walk in the second commandment.
The focus then is always on God and others and not us.
Thats why we have the Holy Spirit in us, to help us and guide us and manifest Jesus in us.
Our focus should always be orientated that way.
Sorry for the long post but you did ask
Finally I would like to say that I do feel we should not judge maturity and growth in people.
I do think people need healing in order to mature and the biggy for me is accepting Gods forgiveness and forgiving others.
When Jesus separated the sheep and the goats the sheep are received into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 25:35-40
35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
They did it for Jesus
what I have found it is easy to separate works as one defines them and focus on that.
What I mean by that is that I know of people who focus on works being don't do wrong.
By that I mean they focus on the things mentioned in Corinthians/Ephesians and Galatians.
So in a sense it's don't drink don't smoke what do you do.
So good works are crucifying the flesh.
Then on the other side I have seen people know they sin but it's not a big issue? Oh well I'm a sinner, God knows I will sin and he will forgive me. I'm not saying they have no regard to their sin (though I have met a few like that), but there tends to be a tendency to focus on the good things they do, like tithe and occasionally help others out.
I know the above is a bit broad brush as such and I want everyone reading this to know that I am not singling anyone out here.
I don't know any of you personally so I cannot say anything about anyone here.
Here are my thoughts.
Firstly works do not save a person. Works are a result of salvation. Some mature quicker that others.
There is no linear fashion or a constant learning curve that leads to maturity.
All are different, hurts, experiences of life, pain, and the like are things that can stunt and block maturity along with things like unforgiveness.
One simple example for me is that my mum made it clear I was a useless piece of crap who ruined her life and she only kept me because she had to (until I was 14 and through me out) Now that stunted me big time because that was how I thought God felt about me. So that life experience along with beatings for not complying and no beatings if I complied were ingrained so that's how I felt God saw me but also others.
So to me as of today what would I say works are.
We are called to do good works, works that I would say are pleasing to God.
There I have said it there are works that are pleasing to God and to me these works are encompassed in the following.
John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
Any works we do that are pleasing to God are as a result of placing faith in Jesus, if there is no faith then our works are like filthy rags and to me are an abuse of the cross.
Then I would say that the works we are to do are summed up in the following.
Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
To me waking in the first commandment should allow us to decrease and Jesus increase. That being the case sin should decrease and fruit in increase (i.e. Self control here)
As fruit increases then we walk in the second commandment.
The focus then is always on God and others and not us.
Thats why we have the Holy Spirit in us, to help us and guide us and manifest Jesus in us.
Our focus should always be orientated that way.
Sorry for the long post but you did ask
Finally I would like to say that I do feel we should not judge maturity and growth in people.
I do think people need healing in order to mature and the biggy for me is accepting Gods forgiveness and forgiving others.
When Jesus separated the sheep and the goats the sheep are received into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 25:35-40
35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
They did it for Jesus
I agree in principle that all of us are to be a living epistle of the grace and love of God for others however even in the letter to Corinthians in context one can see that Paul and Timothy were saying "things" to the church there and that they were the ministers. Not every one is a "sent one" as in an apostle like Paul and Timothy.
2 Corinthians 1:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia:
1 Corinthians 12:4-6 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1 Corinthians 12:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For the body is not one member, but many.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If the foot says, "Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And if the ear says, "Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.
1 Corinthians 12:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?
Opps...it looks like I spelled your name wrong in my original post...sorry. I have no reference point when I posted Mediggo and got it backwards. Meggido....
What does your name mean?
2 Corinthians 1:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia:
1 Corinthians 12:4-6 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1 Corinthians 12:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For the body is not one member, but many.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If the foot says, "Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And if the ear says, "Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.
1 Corinthians 12:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?
Opps...it looks like I spelled your name wrong in my original post...sorry. I have no reference point when I posted Mediggo and got it backwards. Meggido....
What does your name mean?
My personal thinking about this is that the new commandment..to love others as He has loved us is the law that is needed for the body of Christ because of offenses. And is the way that we endure.
Love is not just an emotion but the embodiment of God Himself. He is truth...He is Light...He is love. He can love others through us and am not speaking of our emotions expressing in any way towards others, but His actual love flowing through us to touch others. Sort of like releasing it.
It's not ours...but His. Nothing to boast of in any way...just in Him and His Works.
Love is not just an emotion but the embodiment of God Himself. He is truth...He is Light...He is love. He can love others through us and am not speaking of our emotions expressing in any way towards others, but His actual love flowing through us to touch others. Sort of like releasing it.
It's not ours...but His. Nothing to boast of in any way...just in Him and His Works.
EG
I say this with love and compassion. I warred this way too with my flesh. And I grew tired plus unsuccessful. Just reckon it dead...daily. Declare it is dead for we are dead to sin and alive to God.
This is what Paul found too...when we concentrate on a battle...we will have a battle. Just stop and die with His Word for you.
We are resurrected with Him now. Walk in His life.
I say this with love and compassion. I warred this way too with my flesh. And I grew tired plus unsuccessful. Just reckon it dead...daily. Declare it is dead for we are dead to sin and alive to God.
This is what Paul found too...when we concentrate on a battle...we will have a battle. Just stop and die with His Word for you.
We are resurrected with Him now. Walk in His life.
E
I think jesus was trying to correct their thinking
the way to fulfill the law is not to try to keep commands, (think of the sermon on the mount, where if we even look at a lady with lust etc) it is about loving others.
seeking after the things of the spirit, is looking to everyone around you, and seeing who you can love and serve in jesus name.
do this, you wil not break the law.
Do not do this, and you risk serving self, which is sin.
the problem is, unless we are super mature,, and honestly not even then, they can just do it better and for longer periods of time, but definitely not as a babe in Christ, we can not love 24/7. So we will not be sinless.
the way to fulfill the law is not to try to keep commands, (think of the sermon on the mount, where if we even look at a lady with lust etc) it is about loving others.
seeking after the things of the spirit, is looking to everyone around you, and seeing who you can love and serve in jesus name.
do this, you wil not break the law.
Do not do this, and you risk serving self, which is sin.
the problem is, unless we are super mature,, and honestly not even then, they can just do it better and for longer periods of time, but definitely not as a babe in Christ, we can not love 24/7. So we will not be sinless.
E
I agree with you
We do this when we love others, We take our focus off self. and the the worry about self and who will take care of me fades, Just give it to God, and serve others.
That is what the two commands are for. to focus on others, and not on self.
Does this make sense? I hope I am not confusing you, I think we are saying the same.
I concur with you here....
I also believe the church has lost sight of this imperative.....that is my main beef....
Intentional and deliberate discipleship, which teaches, matures, and equips people in the church like Jesus did, looks like what?
We have entirely too much teaching and worship songs about everything being God's responsibility, but thank you Jesus for mine....
Now think about my last sentence before you rush in and make a judgement....
When we have people that know the lyrics of every Hillsong worship chorus, know Beth Moore latest teaching, go to all the conferences, watch nothing but Christian TV.....but cannot hear the voice of the Spirit to move on the broken and beaten when they see them....
Houston we have a problem....
I also believe the church has lost sight of this imperative.....that is my main beef....
Intentional and deliberate discipleship, which teaches, matures, and equips people in the church like Jesus did, looks like what?
We have entirely too much teaching and worship songs about everything being God's responsibility, but thank you Jesus for mine....
Now think about my last sentence before you rush in and make a judgement....
When we have people that know the lyrics of every Hillsong worship chorus, know Beth Moore latest teaching, go to all the conferences, watch nothing but Christian TV.....but cannot hear the voice of the Spirit to move on the broken and beaten when they see them....
Houston we have a problem....