Sabbath

[Grandpa]

You know what is hard is this, I read what people like Grandpa writes on here and I can see very clearly that he does not get my position. Maybe he sees the same thing when He sees what I write.

I most clearly do not agree with Grandpa on this issue. However that being said, I do not have reason to believe he is being deliberately dishonest. At this point in time I only see a man who loves God and desires to free me from bondage. While I don't believe I am in bondage, I can accept the good will he has towards me.

Do I think he is wrong? Yes of course I do. But My understanding of God allows me to believe that being wrong does not automatically disqualify you from heaven. It is not so much what you know but rather being honest in heart towards God. We are all on a journey and I would hate to think that one could lose salvation based simply on getting everything right in time. Rather God reads the heart and accepts the true in heart.

That means I might have to be corrected on some things when I get to heaven, so might you but that will be ok, because your heart is open to correction.

You might say, well is there no standard? Yes the standard is faith in God to save. The thief on the cross did not know everything surely but salvation was his in Christ. Martian Luther started some good stuff for God but I am sure he had much to learn and error to unlearn when he died. but he gave himself to the work of God and I hope to meet him in heaven.

I am not saying we should not teach truth or not obey God. I myself believe wholeheartedly that the Sabbath day still matters. and that God's people should keep it even today. I believe Isaiah that we will keep it even in heaven.

I believe anyone who knows that it still matters in scripture and does not keep it will be lost. But I don't see people like Grandpa in that boat so to speak. Many have been taught in such ways that they truly can not see what is so plain to some of us.

I can only hope and pray for them the same thing i hope an pray for myself. That I will be honest enough when I approach scripture that one day If I am in error I will see it by the Spirit of God.

I do not know who will be saved in the end, that is Gods position to judge that. I will continue to teach obedience to the law of God. At least the parts that are not shadows. Because I can see their importance.

But I will not judge my brethren who love the Lord. I have in the past and I am sorry for my ignorance in that. And if they are dishonest then God will be their judge. As for me I will continue to obey the Lord as I am convicted by the Word of God.

Blessings.

You're one of the easier legalists to talk to.

Even though you have some of the same beliefs as the other legalists and judaizers here you don't seem to be as dis-honest with scripture as they are.

Take this silliness about the difference between Moses law and Gods Law. And that difference being the 10 commandments. Its dishonest and an obvious ploy to go back to working at the law. Or justifying ones work at the law.

For what purpose??? Have you asked yourself that? What purpose does working at the law in your own understanding do?


The only thing I really wonder about people who are still working at the law is if they've ever really been to Christ. By some of the things you have said, gotime, I have to believe you have. The others, I'm still not so sure.

Galatians 5:1 [FONT=&quot]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

[/FONT]Somehow you must think this is not Holy Spirit inspired.

Do you know why you shouldn't be entangled again in the yoke of bondage? Because your carnal work and carnal understanding don't come anywhere close to fulfilling it. But, by the act of un-belief, you work at the law thinking the Lord Jesus Christ has not fulfilled whatever it is you are working at.

Don't you think that maybe it is your understanding that is falling short and not the Work of the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has Fulfilled?

Somehow, you know that the Lord has fulfilled part of the law, but also somehow (not biblically) you think the Lord has left some un-fulfilled. The Lord didn't say He came to fulfill some of the law or part of the law. If He only fulfilled part of the law then He couldn't make the statement Come to me and I will give you Rest. He would have had to say come to me and I will give you saturday sabbath keeping or rest from sacrificing animals or some such qualifier.

But the only qualifier is, you who are laboring at the law, come to me and I will give you Rest from your carnal work and carnal understanding at the law.

Paul tries to explain this to you in several different epistles.


Romans 7:14 [FONT=&quot]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

[/FONT]

 

[JaumeJ]

In Romans it is also written that faith establishes the law.

Romans says a lot, and it is used to support both sides of most contentions, and this is why all should go
to the Master, His Gospel, to understand all things important to salvation.

I do, and I know most do, but most also drift away in favor of denominational hocuspocus.........

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hello Grandpa,

Hope you do not mind. None of us here dislike you. In fact we care about you and love you enough to share God's Word with you. Sometimes it may be hard to hear things we are not use to hearing, but I know if you ask Jesus and study His Word for yourself you will find Jesus more and more because Jesus is the Word (John 1:1-3). Here is a few comments in Red.

You're one of the easier legalists to talk to. Even though you have some of the same beliefs as the other legalists and judaizers here you don't seem to be as dis-honest with scripture as they are.

Please can you show us where anyone here has been dishonest with scripture? This just seems like you are judging someones motives for sharing Scripture. If you believe someone has a wrong interpretation of scripture you are free to post accordingly and to share God's Word with others.

Take this silliness about the difference between Moses law and Gods Law. And that difference being the 10 commandments. Its dishonest and an obvious ploy to go back to working at the law.

If God's Word says that God's Law is different from the laws of Moses it is God's Word. How is this being dishonest with anyone? It is the Word of God and we must believe it don't you think? I will post the reference links again here so you can show me why you feel what I have posted is dishonest if you like please show me why you feel the scriptures I have shared are not correct if you feel they are not. They are God's Word and God's Word is not dishonest and if it is God's Word why do you not believe it?

Link provided below for you to comment on;

The difference between God's Law and the laws of Moses (1)
The difference between God's Law and the laws of Moses (2)

Or justifying ones work at the law. For what purpose??? Have you asked yourself that? What purpose does working at the law in your own understanding do? The only thing I really wonder about people who are still working at the law is if they've ever really been to Christ. By some of the things you have said, gotime, I have to believe you have. The others, I'm still not so sure. Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Somehow you must think this is not Holy Spirit inspired. Do you know why you shouldn't be entangled again in the yoke of bondage? Because your carnal work and carnal understanding don't come anywhere close to fulfilling it. But, by the act of un-belief, you work at the law thinking the Lord Jesus Christ has not fulfilled whatever it is you are working at. Don't you think that maybe it is your understanding that is falling short and not the Work of the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has Fulfilled? Somehow, you know that the Lord has fulfilled part of the law, but also somehow (not biblically) you think the Lord has left some un-fulfilled. The Lord didn't say He came to fulfill some of the law or part of the law. If He only fulfilled part of the law then He couldn't make the statement Come to me and I will give you Rest. He would have had to say come to me and I will give you saturday sabbath keeping or rest from sacrificing animals or some such qualifier. But the only qualifier is, you who are laboring at the law, come to me and I will give you Rest from your carnal work and carnal understanding at the law. Paul tries to explain this to you in several different epistles. Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

I think this is where your misunderstanding is. You seem to be of the belief that everyone here believes that they are trying to gain salvation by trying to keep God's Law. God's Law has a very strong connection to the Gospel. We do not know sin without God's Law (1John 3:4). God's Law reveals to us that all our righteousness is as filthy rags (Isa 64:6) and that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour.

If you separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Gospel, you will have no knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20). If you have no knowledge of sin you have no need of a savior. If you have not need of a savior you have no need of salvation. If you have no need of salvation you are lost (Rom 2:12). The Law of God is our schoolmaster to bring us to Jesus (Gal 3:24). To the foot of the Cross were we realize that there is nothing that we can do in our own strength to save ourselves (Matt 9:13).

This is the place where Jesus can save us because it is here that we can simply lay hold of the Word of God through Faith alone believing God's Word to do what it says it will do (2Pet 1:4). We believe that our salvation is only by Faith in Jesus and the promises of His Word. Now does this sound like we believe we are trying to achieve salvation by our Work? It is because we love Jesus (new heart) because he saved a sinner like me whom I am chief that I choose to follow Him because we have faith in His Words. No one that I know of here believe we are saved by the things we do. But we do believe we are saved by believing God's Words. Few more thoughts here on this link What is the real Gospel?

Hope this is helpful my friend, believe it or not everyone here actually cares for you and is why they are taking time to share with you.

God bless you.

 

[Grandpa]

If you separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Gospel, you will have no knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20). If you have no knowledge of sin you have no need of a savior. If you have not need of a savior you have no need of salvation. If you have no need of salvation you are lost (Rom 2:12). The Law of God is our schoolmaster to bring us to Jesus (Gal 3:24). To the foot of the Cross were we realize that there is nothing that we can do in our own strength to save ourselves (Matt 9:13).

This is an extremely silly idea.

Nowhere in scripture does it say to go back to your work at the law after you have been saved, after you have come to Christ.

That's because after you have been to Christ you know where your help is. You know where your blessing is.

There is no reason to go back to trying to do something that you couldn't do in the first place and become condemned by it all over again.

The scriptures say abide in Christ. Not your work at the law.


There is no one born who wasn't first under the law. If a person has finally discovered they need a saviour and need a solution to their sin will they forget later on??

No. The scripture says to do EXACTLY the opposite of what you are proposing.

Galatians 3:24-25
[FONT=&quot]24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


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[JaumeJ]

It is written if we deliberately sin, you know sin is breaking the law, we are trampling on the blood of Christ..

Obeing God is never work, it is our due.

To blindly cut and paste scripture without the benefit of the Holy Spirit is to kill, for the written code kills, while the Holy Spirit gives life.

Do you suppose God's holy people were all lying when God gave them to write down His word lauding the Law (as guided by the spirit).

Reread the Psalms, read all of Romans, and especially listen to what Jesus Christ has taught on the subject of obedience in regards to the law and how it is to be observed today, under grace. It amounts to obeying the Father... It is our due, not a job.

PS......it is late for me here in Spain, so I will be going to bed. God bless you this day and always....

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hi Grandpa,

Comment in RED again

LoveGodForever
If you separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Gospel, you will have no knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20). If you have no knowledge of sin you have no need of a savior. If you have not need of a savior you have no need of salvation. If you have no need of salvation you are lost (Rom 2:12). The Law of God is our schoolmaster to bring us to Jesus (Gal 3:24). To the foot of the Cross were we realize that there is nothing that we can do in our own strength to save ourselves (Matt 9:13).

This is an extremely silly idea.

Now why is this a silly idea? It is the Word of God. The Word of God is not silly. Why do you think that statement above is wrong?

Nowhere in scripture does it say to go back to your work at the law after you have been saved, after you have come to Christ. That's because after you have been to Christ you know where your help is. You know where your blessing is. There is no reason to go back to trying to do something that you couldn't do in the first place and become condemned by it all over again.

This is where you get stuck. Who told you to go back to the Works of the Law? Where does it say this in the post 1823 above and elsewhere? Maybe you need to re-read the post again. Nobody is telling you to go back to the Works of the Law. In fact the opposite. Through Faith in God's Word, Jesus Works in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure. (Phil 2:13)

The scriptures say abide in Christ. Not your work at the law.

Absolutely! We are saying the same thing.

There is no one born who wasn't first under the law. If a person has finally discovered they need a saviour and need a solution to their sin will they forget later on??

Absolutely! How do you know what sin is if there is no Law? (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4)

No. The scripture says to do EXACTLY the opposite of what you are proposing. Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

I am not proposing the opposite of what is said in the scriptures above I am agreeing with them. I am saying the same thing as those scriptures you just quoted. Please re-read post 1823 above again and show me why you think I am saying the opposite.

Maybe we are saying more in common then you first thought?

 

[oldethennew]

it really boils-down to, 'what are we willing or even able to 'surrender' in order to
obey/serve our Saviour, in gratitude and Love, for what He has done for us?...

 

[Dai3234]

I think some people want to go to church on a Saturday because of the Catholic Sunday beast mark link etc. I don't really like Sunday church. Would prefer Saturday. Also prefer churches to baptize and not just for believers baptism after a few years etc. Sabbath confuses me too as it was from before the ot covenant Adam and Eve, Kane and Abel etc. I think?

 

[gotime]

You're one of the easier legalists to talk to.

Even though you have some of the same beliefs as the other legalists and judaizers here you don't seem to be as dis-honest with scripture as they are.

Take this silliness about the difference between Moses law and Gods Law. And that difference being the 10 commandments. Its dishonest and an obvious ploy to go back to working at the law. Or justifying ones work at the law.

For what purpose??? Have you asked yourself that? What purpose does working at the law in your own understanding do?


The only thing I really wonder about people who are still working at the law is if they've ever really been to Christ. By some of the things you have said, gotime, I have to believe you have. The others, I'm still not so sure.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Somehow you must think this is not Holy Spirit inspired.

Do you know why you shouldn't be entangled again in the yoke of bondage? Because your carnal work and carnal understanding don't come anywhere close to fulfilling it. But, by the act of un-belief, you work at the law thinking the Lord Jesus Christ has not fulfilled whatever it is you are working at.

Don't you think that maybe it is your understanding that is falling short and not the Work of the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has Fulfilled?

Somehow, you know that the Lord has fulfilled part of the law, but also somehow (not biblically) you think the Lord has left some un-fulfilled. The Lord didn't say He came to fulfill some of the law or part of the law. If He only fulfilled part of the law then He couldn't make the statement Come to me and I will give you Rest. He would have had to say come to me and I will give you saturday sabbath keeping or rest from sacrificing animals or some such qualifier.

But the only qualifier is, you who are laboring at the law, come to me and I will give you Rest from your carnal work and carnal understanding at the law.

Paul tries to explain this to you in several different epistles.


Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Hey Grandpa, Its funny you call me a legalist which I am sure it seems from your position. Its funny because those who know me here including pastors from multiple other faiths would say the opposite.

I don't personally see a difference between Moses law and Gods law. The reality for me is the only reason its called the law of Moses is because it came through Moses. But in reality its God's law given through Moses. This is most easy to see in the OT. Moses was the medium through which God communicated His law to Israel. By the way Jews who were legalists and also those who were not both saw differences in different aspects of the law. This is easy to see when you simply read the giving of the law. For example, The 10 commandments came first, they were spoken by God himself the book of the law was not, it was spoken by Moses and written by Moses. but the 10 commandments were spoken and written by God himself. Also the book of the law that Moses wrote was beside the ark while the 10 were the very contents of the ark.

So to us that makes a clear distinction between the 10 and other parts of the law. I have not posted scripture as it has been presented by others. I am willing if you want.

You asked, "For what purpose??? Have you asked yourself that? What purpose does working at the law in your own understanding do?"

Here is the problem with your question, For me its irrelevant and Ill tell you why. I don't work at the law, rather Jesus fulfils it in me. Do I desire to keep it? Yes indeed Just as Paul shows his desire to keep it in Romans 7. The question is does Jesus fulfil that desire to be obedient and free from sin which is breaking the law? I say a resounding Yes.

So again we don't work at it in our own understanding, This seems so foreign a question to me.

The law shows me my need of saving, it leads me to a saviour, Jesus. But when I come to Jesus I do so to be saved. So then the fundamental Question is what is it that showed me I need saving?

WE have already shown it is the law. How does it show that I need saving? Paul teaches it shows what is good but the problem is we are carnal.

In simple form the law says thou shalt not steal. When I see that and realise my sin of stealing I then realise that I need saving. Thus I seek a saviour which I find in Christ. But if I continue to steal how then am I saved?

A thief who is still a thief is not saved but remains in the condition he was from the beginning. This is straight logic.

The same applies to all the 10 commandments which show sin.

The question here is not the law because even you agree the law shows sin. I find you have defied any logic and reason to suggest that keeping it in any way is of God. When that is exactly what a saviour would do.

This is not a question of works or faith it is a question of function and result. I feel that you are mistaken in thinking this is a works thing.

I believe you need to stop doing to us what we have often done to you. We may say some things that sound to you like we are doing what the pharisees did, but I can assure you we are not and I am against what the pharisees did and how they approached Gods salvation. Just as things you say sound like you are saying sin is ok in Christ. But I know you really are not saying that even though it sounds like you are.

The issue here is not the law it is the Sabbath specifically.

Galatians I agree with fully. The yoke of bondage is not the Sabbath, The Sabbath is a gift of God from creation. It is the opposite of bondage. The problem is not the scripture itself its how we both read it that is the issue.

you said"Don't you think that maybe it is your understanding that is falling short and not the Work of the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has Fulfilled?"

As a being who has been given a brain to think and reason as I read the scriptures so that understanding may result. I can't for the life of me accept that God would say that it is sin to break the Sabbath and then as soon as I come to Christ to be saved then say its not sin anymore. That makes no sense to me at all. The only possible way that could work is if the Sabbath had meaning that is not literal, But for me to accept that I must see it in the word of God clearly. and I have not seen anything that comes close to it.

 

[oldethennew]

as we grow and go along, Christ teaches us how to Love Him in new and better ways...
it's our 'hearts' that most concern Him, may we put our hearts and will in His hands...

 

[gotime]

Lets deal with this law issue once and for all.

Who is the law for?

 

[Grandpa]

Hey Grandpa, Its funny you call me a legalist which I am sure it seems from your position. Its funny because those who know me here including pastors from multiple other faiths would say the opposite.

I don't personally see a difference between Moses law and Gods law. The reality for me is the only reason its called the law of Moses is because it came through Moses. But in reality its God's law given through Moses. This is most easy to see in the OT. Moses was the medium through which God communicated His law to Israel. By the way Jews who were legalists and also those who were not both saw differences in different aspects of the law. This is easy to see when you simply read the giving of the law. For example, The 10 commandments came first, they were spoken by God himself the book of the law was not, it was spoken by Moses and written by Moses. but the 10 commandments were spoken and written by God himself. Also the book of the law that Moses wrote was beside the ark while the 10 were the very contents of the ark.

So to us that makes a clear distinction between the 10 and other parts of the law. I have not posted scripture as it has been presented by others. I am willing if you want.

You asked, "For what purpose??? Have you asked yourself that? What purpose does working at the law in your own understanding do?"

Here is the problem with your question, For me its irrelevant and Ill tell you why. I don't work at the law, rather Jesus fulfils it in me. Do I desire to keep it? Yes indeed Just as Paul shows his desire to keep it in Romans 7. The question is does Jesus fulfil that desire to be obedient and free from sin which is breaking the law? I say a resounding Yes.

So again we don't work at it in our own understanding, This seems so foreign a question to me.

The law shows me my need of saving, it leads me to a saviour, Jesus. But when I come to Jesus I do so to be saved. So then the fundamental Question is what is it that showed me I need saving?

WE have already shown it is the law. How does it show that I need saving? Paul teaches it shows what is good but the problem is we are carnal.

In simple form the law says thou shalt not steal. When I see that and realise my sin of stealing I then realise that I need saving. Thus I seek a saviour which I find in Christ. But if I continue to steal how then am I saved?

A thief who is still a thief is not saved but remains in the condition he was from the beginning. This is straight logic.

The same applies to all the 10 commandments which show sin.

The question here is not the law because even you agree the law shows sin. I find you have defied any logic and reason to suggest that keeping it in any way is of God. When that is exactly what a saviour would do.

This is not a question of works or faith it is a question of function and result. I feel that you are mistaken in thinking this is a works thing.

I believe you need to stop doing to us what we have often done to you. We may say some things that sound to you like we are doing what the pharisees did, but I can assure you we are not and I am against what the pharisees did and how they approached Gods salvation. Just as things you say sound like you are saying sin is ok in Christ. But I know you really are not saying that even though it sounds like you are.

The issue here is not the law it is the Sabbath specifically.

Galatians I agree with fully. The yoke of bondage is not the Sabbath, The Sabbath is a gift of God from creation. It is the opposite of bondage. The problem is not the scripture itself its how we both read it that is the issue.

you said"Don't you think that maybe it is your understanding that is falling short and not the Work of the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has Fulfilled?"

As a being who has been given a brain to think and reason as I read the scriptures so that understanding may result. I can't for the life of me accept that God would say that it is sin to break the Sabbath and then as soon as I come to Christ to be saved then say its not sin anymore. That makes no sense to me at all. The only possible way that could work is if the Sabbath had meaning that is not literal, But for me to accept that I must see it in the word of God clearly. and I have not seen anything that comes close to it.

Colossians 2:16-17
[FONT=&quot]16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Hebrews 7:11-19
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Galatians 3:13-14
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:24-25
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


There was a reason the 10 commandments and the rest of the law were given. It was because people rejected Gods Grace.

When we come to Christ we receive His Grace. We are under His Grace now and not the Law. But people who continue their work at the law, including the 10 commandments, have placed their self back under the authority of the law.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If being right with God doesn't come by your work at the law then what is the point of continuing your work at it? Don't you want to be right with God?

That's a pretty hard one for you to think about, isn't it? This is probably enough for you to think about for awhile...

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[gotime]

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Hebrews 7:11-19

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Galatians 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:24-25

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


There was a reason the 10 commandments and the rest of the law were given. It was because people rejected Gods Grace.

When we come to Christ we receive His Grace. We are under His Grace now and not the Law. But people who continue their work at the law, including the 10 commandments, have placed their self back under the authority of the law.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If being right with God doesn't come by your work at the law then what is the point of continuing your work at it? Don't you want to be right with God?

That's a pretty hard one for you to think about, isn't it? This is probably enough for you to think about for awhile...

This is not as hard as you might expect. In fact it is fairly simple from my point of view. So let me address what you have said here as best I can.

You said "There was a reason the 10 commandments and the rest of the law were given. It was because people rejected Gods Grace."

This is evident by the fact that Abraham who was a friend of God was not given the law. However that being said, He was given directions. He did build altars and he did sacrifice to the Lord. This was expanded in the sanctuary service through the law.

Abraham did get given standards and laws which are not spelled out in Genesis, Yet if we follow the same logic as above were written out in the law later.

But I agree with the basic assertion above, the law was given because they/Israel did not accept Gods Grace as a gift. It is important to note however that before this rejection of Grace God had already installed the Sabbath in Exodus 16. this means that had they accepted Gods Grace they would not have received the law but would still have kept the Sabbath.

Then you said "If being right with God doesn't come by your work at the law then what is the point of continuing your work at it? Don't you want to be right with God?"

The reason you think this is hard is because you have made false assumptions on why we do what we do.

I don't work at the law in the sense of trying to keep it to be saved or earn merit or salvation etc. In fact I don't work at the law.

Please by all means do demonstrate how someone who does not steal has to be working at the law.

As for me someone who does not steal is someone who has been saved by faith from a life of sin. and I mean steal in the broader sense.

Or do we now accuse everyone who does not steal of working at the law?

you might not believe that but that is where your point logically falls at least as I see it.

I don't obey the law to be saved, I came to Christ and he transformed me. Now it is in my nature to obey the law. It is not hard it is easy, his Yoke is lite. It is Christ in me. Sinners can not keep the law and try to keep the law as if they can earn or work their salvation.

 

[gotime]

To maybe be clear on how your view sounds to me.

Before Jesus it is sin to break the law.

After Jesus it is sin to keep the law.

I am speaking of the 10 commandments. here.

 

[LoveGodForever]

This is not as hard as you might expect. In fact it is fairly simple from my point of view. So let me address what you have said here as best I can.

You said "There was a reason the 10 commandments and the rest of the law were given. It was because people rejected Gods Grace."

This is evident by the fact that Abraham who was a friend of God was not given the law. However that being said, He was given directions. He did build altars and he did sacrifice to the Lord. This was expanded in the sanctuary service through the law.

Abraham did get given standards and laws which are not spelled out in Genesis, Yet if we follow the same logic as above were written out in the law later.

But I agree with the basic assertion above, the law was given because they/Israel did not accept Gods Grace as a gift. It is important to note however that before this rejection of Grace God had already installed the Sabbath in Exodus 16. this means that had they accepted Gods Grace they would not have received the law but would still have kept the Sabbath.

Then you said "If being right with God doesn't come by your work at the law then what is the point of continuing your work at it? Don't you want to be right with God?"

The reason you think this is hard is because you have made false assumptions on why we do what we do.

I don't work at the law in the sense of trying to keep it to be saved or earn merit or salvation etc. In fact I don't work at the law.

Please by all means do demonstrate how someone who does not steal has to be working at the law.

As for me someone who does not steal is someone who has been saved by faith from a life of sin. and I mean steal in the broader sense.

Or do we now accuse everyone who does not steal of working at the law?

you might not believe that but that is where your point logically falls at least as I see it.

I don't obey the law to be saved, I came to Christ and he transformed me. Now it is in my nature to obey the law. It is not hard it is easy, his Yoke is lite. It is Christ in me. Sinners can not keep the law and try to keep the law as if they can earn or work their salvation.

Gday mate, not trying to be critical at all but everything has already been answered in Grandpa's post 1832, eg.


[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Colossians 2 (1)

Colossians 2 (2)

Colossians 2 (a must read God's Word)

[/FONT]The difference between God's Law and the laws of Moses (1)

The difference between God's Law and the laws of Moses (2)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]Not to mention the many other posts in this thread. With all respect he has already chosen not to believe God's Word. When we present the Word of God, not everyone will believe it just as they chose not to believe God's Word when Jesus spoke it himself. We are not above our master. That is why Jesus said..

JOHN 12:
[SUP][FONT=&quot]47,[/FONT][/SUP][FONT=&quot] And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
[SUP]48,[/SUP] He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Don't misunderstand what I am saying. Always share God's Word. Just don't expect everyone to believe it. But please go ahead as God leads you.

God bless you keep sharing and caring this is what God wants us to do.
[/FONT]

 

[oldethennew]

There's a Train standing by- at the end of the sky,
Don't have to press your Wedding Dress,
just,
spread your wings and fly,
Fly to The Mountain...

 

[graceNpeace]

This is not as hard as you might expect. In fact it is fairly simple from my point of view. So let me address what you have said here as best I can.

You said "There was a reason the 10 commandments and the rest of the law were given. It was because people rejected Gods Grace."

This is evident by the fact that Abraham who was a friend of God was not given the law. However that being said, He was given directions. He did build altars and he did sacrifice to the Lord. This was expanded in the sanctuary service through the law.

Abraham did get given standards and laws which are not spelled out in Genesis, Yet if we follow the same logic as above were written out in the law later.

But I agree with the basic assertion above, the law was given because they/Israel did not accept Gods Grace as a gift. It is important to note however that before this rejection of Grace God had already installed the Sabbath in Exodus 16. this means that had they accepted Gods Grace they would not have received the law but would still have kept the Sabbath.

Then you said "If being right with God doesn't come by your work at the law then what is the point of continuing your work at it? Don't you want to be right with God?"

The reason you think this is hard is because you have made false assumptions on why we do what we do.

I don't work at the law in the sense of trying to keep it to be saved or earn merit or salvation etc. In fact I don't work at the law.

Please by all means do demonstrate how someone who does not steal has to be working at the law.

As for me someone who does not steal is someone who has been saved by faith from a life of sin. and I mean steal in the broader sense.

Or do we now accuse everyone who does not steal of working at the law?

you might not believe that but that is where your point logically falls at least as I see it.

I don't obey the law to be saved, I came to Christ and he transformed me. Now it is in my nature to obey the law. It is not hard it is easy, his Yoke is lite. It is Christ in me. Sinners can not keep the law and try to keep the law as if they can earn or work their salvation.

Actually the law (all of it) was given because of sin and to make sin exceedingly sinful (Gal 3:19, Rom 7:13)...

 

[gotime]

Actually the law (all of it) was given because of sin and to make sin exceedingly sinful (Gal 3:19, Rom 7:13)...

you must have misunderstood me in some way because I know all of the law was given because of sin. So I have not argued otherwise and if you think I have then you have misunderstood me.

You quote that it makes sin exceedingly sinful and I do agree with that also. But do you know what that means? How does it make sin exceedingly sinful? Scripture please if you are going to answer.

 

[graceNpeace]

Rom 5:20-21, Rom 7:7, Rom 7:13-25.

 

[gotime]

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The verse itself gives the meaning, The law is good but it made sin appear sin. In other words it shows sin so that we were without excuse.

But it was sin that works death in us according to this verse and the law is used by it to condemn even though the law is good. The commandment itself makes sin worse. Now this does not mean that the commandment makes us sin, no sin was before the law and death before the law. Rather the law takes us from ignorant sin to rebellious sin or known sin. and rebellion is worse than sin of ignorance.