BAPTISM --- TWICE ??

[FranC]

He could be baptized in the Nazarene church and next year join the Baptist church where he would be told that the first two baptisms were not valid and now he needs to be baptized again in their faith. I guess the third times the charm.

This is more in line with what I'm thinking.
Is baptism a REAL thing or not?

If it isn't, why did Jesus say to do this?

Jesus said it remits sin.
He said it will give power. He told the Apostles to wait in Jerusalem until they receive power from the Holy Spirit.

So, does it or doesn't it?

We're all split up in churches now so that even baptism is no longer valid???

 

[FranC]

We are not baptised into a church, we are baptised into Christ as a symbol
of newness of life. You need to tell your brother that.

If he has never been baptised as an adult or older child who knew and understood
what it meant. Then I would suggest getting baptised.


However - I would be wary of any church who says "you must be baptised to
join our community". That's a man made law.

Membership of a church has nothing to do with baptism at all. That's a personal
holy spirit led choice. It's nothing to do with being a member of a church.

I was baptised in my early 20s but I never became an official member of the
church that baptised me.


If need be, you could baptise your brother in a river even! It's an act and outward
testimony of faith in Christ. It doesn't even have to be carried out be an officially
ordained pastor.

The pastor did say that it's ALSO a sign of belonging to a community.
The CC also says this.
Sometimes I think the CC is becoming more protestant
and the Protestant Church is becoming more Catholic.
Like with this for instance. The CC does say that baptising a baby welcomes him into the church community.

You made a point though that I'm not sure is correct.

Jesus said the APOSTLES were to baptize when He sent them out on the Great Commission.
Mathew 28:19

You think ANYBODY could baptize?
It doesn't seem right.

 

[dcontroversal]

Right now I'm thinking baptism is baptism.

But I'd like to read some more.

WHY do we get baptized?
Jesus did make a point of this...

It is the public testimony of faith and states to the world that you are dead with Christ, buried with Christ and resurrected a new creation in Christ....it is an painting or picture of your new birth and the 1st act of OBEDIENCE<----see I use the word every now and then HAHA

It is to the N.T. what circumcision was to the O.T.....an identifier......!

 

[FranC]

First of all... It's impossible to baptize a baby- all they do is get wet. Because a decision of a lifetime commitment has to come from them. The Bible says that both men and women were baptized, we have no biblical examples, or commands, to baptize children.

Second of all... Yes! If you realize you were baptized into a false religion, you have to get baptized into Christ's church. The church is the Bride of Christ. Let's say a widower finds a women he wants to marry. But he tells her "I guess there's no need to get married, I've already gotten married." And his fiancé says, "Yeah, but not to me!"

Jacob worked 7 years to marry Rachel, but they tricked him and he married her sister Leah unknowingly. He then had to work another 7 years to marry Rachel. After 14 years he married the right sister. If you realize you got baptized into the wrong body of believers, you have to correct that as soon as you realize.

Third of all... I'm not saying this to hurt anyone's feelings. But according to my study of the scriptures, neither one of those religions match the church Christ established and purchased with His blood. "Study to show yourself approved onto God."

I'm pretty speechless.

So the Catholic Church is not the right Church and the Nazarene Church is not the right Church.

So which Church is the right Church???

Really. Give us a name.

My belief is that if someone is baptized, believing it is valid, then in God's eyes it has to be valid.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hi FranC,

I believe infant (baby) Baptism is not Biblical. Baptism is a declaration to the world that you have accepted God as your personal savior, and you have chosen to die to your life of sin, repentance and chosen through resurrection (rising from the water) to walk in newness of life. It is the washing away of Sins. Baptism follows repentance. An infant does not even know they are sinner let alone who God is.

Scriptural proof:

Act 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Act 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Act 2:37-38,
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?Then Peter said unto them, (1) Repent, and be (1) baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.Act 18:8
And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing (1) believed, and (2) were baptized.

Act 19:3-5,
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Rom 6:1-8,
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Gal 3:27,
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Mat 3:5,
Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
Mat 3:6, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

Mar 1:5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Act 8:36,
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Act 8:37,
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Act 8:38,
And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Act 10:47-48,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Sorry I have probably overdone it with all the scripture. Hope it is helpful

God bless

 

[FranC]

I believe baptism is an act of faith and obedience into Christ. It does not save us, nor should it be tied to church membership. I know most Baptist churches will not accept people into membership until they have been immersed in a believer's baptism. Infant sprinkling does not satisfy that requirement. But being adult baptized should satisfy the requirement in any church.

I agree with all you've said. I just have to believe that if parents baptize their baby believing they are doing something correct that the Church teaches, then God will Honor it. It's not the child's fault if some doctrinal mistake is make. If, as an adult, he believes another baptism is necessary, then so be it. Right now, I don't think it would e necesary.


There is a tradition of infant baptism in Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican and Lutheran churches. In the Pentecostal and Baptist churches I have been a member of, we dedicate babies. That means the parents, extended families and the church covenant to raise the child in the ways of God, in community, until the child can make a profession of faith, and be baptized, hopefully at a point where they understand the commitment they are making. My oldest son was water baptized at age 11, and has fallen away from God. I do not believe he is saved, by his own words.

Babies are dedicated to God in the Nazarene Church too. The baby is put on the Altar and given back to God.
I'm sorry to hear about your son. I have one too. Pray.


My uncle died last year, and I sang at the memorial. My uncle was infant baptized Catholic, and my aunt is a believing Anglican, so the service was performed in her Anglican Church. My uncle was an avowed atheist. He would tell anyone and everyone he knew there was no God.

At the memorial the Anglican priest said he was going to enter into heaven on the basis of his Catholic infant baptism. That is called recognizing the baptism from another church, and totally misguided. My uncle was a nice man, but he was not saved. No baptism in the world save him, because he did not believe in God.

According the the CC this is not doctrinally correct. I say doctrinally because it seems to me that the CC does not practice what it preaches. If a person is an atheist he cannot go to be with a God he does not believe in. Also, as I've stated, a person baptized as a baby in the CC MUST ACCEPT his baptism at some point in their life. This would be equivalent to our being born-again. If one NEVER accepts Jesus as savior, how can he be assured salvation?


I was baptized as an adult, 2 years after I was saved. I didn't get church membership, it was separate. But, every evangelical church I have attended recognizes my believers baptism. So, to the OP, I believe your brother needs to work through what he believes about baptism. Is it automatic that he was saved the moment he was baptized Catholic? Or was there a dividing line between when he was not saved, and when he believed? If the latter, he should be baptized properly. Just because that is what Jesus commanded. You need to repent and be baptized, and an infant cannot repent!

"Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:38

Only if a person is baptized into the CC as an adult can we say he is born again because they go through a year of catechism (I forget what it's called). Babies cannot know Christ and thus what I explained above.

 

[hornetguy]

Thank you (someone has repped it, though no I don't post for reps) I am expecting some incoming though, possibly others will not agree.

I hope you don't get any "incoming"..... it's ok to disagree... I think that voicing our opinions, and listening to dissenting opinions is how we learn.

I don't agree with everything you said, but I don't have time to itemize them.... I'll try to get to it tonight.... but, I DO thank you for stating your thoughts.

 

[tourist]

First of all... It's impossible to baptize a baby- all they do is get wet. Because a decision of a lifetime commitment has to come from them. The Bible says that both men and women were baptized, we have no biblical examples, or commands, to baptize children.

Second of all... Yes! If you realize you were baptized into a false religion, you have to get baptized into Christ's church. The church is the Bride of Christ. Let's say a widower finds a women he wants to marry. But he tells her "I guess there's no need to get married, I've already gotten married." And his fiancé says, "Yeah, but not to me!"

Jacob worked 7 years to marry Rachel, but they tricked him and he married her sister Leah unknowingly. He then had to work another 7 years to marry Rachel. After 14 years he married the right sister. If you realize you got baptized into the wrong body of believers, you have to correct that as soon as you realize.

Third of all... I'm not saying this to hurt anyone's feelings. But according to my study of the scriptures, neither one of those religions match the church Christ established and purchased with His blood. "Study to show yourself approved onto God."

What church is Christ's church?

 

[dcontroversal]

What about the FORM of baptism:
I batpize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Isn't that just as important as being immersed?

Also, could you please say the verse in Acts that states John's baptism was invalid... I can't remember this.
Are you speaking about baptism in the Holy Spirit??

Regarding your

post a:
In John 3:5, in your opinion, is Jesus speaking about baptism, or about natural Birth.

post b:
What "group" would not have God's authority??

a. Obviously all Immersions should be in the name of the Father, Son and H.S. and will say that total IMMERSION is the only acceptable form.

b. Acts 18:25-19:5 Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ. It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

c. The contradiction made by Jesus seems to be between being born of the flesh and born of the spirit.....

d. Any group that teaches contrary to the truth and that cannot be tied dia the truth to what was started by Jesus himself.....there are core doctrines that identify a group as a New Testament Church....

 

[hornetguy]

The pastor did say that it's ALSO a sign of belonging to a community.
The CC also says this.
Sometimes I think the CC is becoming more protestant
and the Protestant Church is becoming more Catholic.
Like with this for instance. The CC does say that baptising a baby welcomes him into the church community.

You made a point though that I'm not sure is correct.

Jesus said the APOSTLES were to baptize when He sent them out on the Great Commission.
Mathew 28:19

You think ANYBODY could baptize?
It doesn't seem right.

Yes, I think anyone can baptize... the reason Jesus told the apostles that is, well, because that is who he was talking to.... don't mean to sound sarcastic... just pointing out that's why he worded it that way, IMO...

but...if you think that he was only talking to the apostles, then that means we have no "commission" to go and teach the world... it would have ended with the apostles...

He was talking to them, but he intended for ALL his disciples to follow suit.... again, IMO...

 

[FranC]

Must be from Scotland, very superstitious over there.

Then why is it a four leaf clover??
Maybe there's no such thing as luck?

 

[hornetguy]

What church is Christ's church?

the universal kingdom..... made up of all Christians everywhere.

 

[AllenW]

I hope you don't get any "incoming"..... it's ok to disagree... I think that voicing our opinions, and listening to dissenting opinions is how we learn.

I don't agree with everything you said, but I don't have time to itemize them.... I'll try to get to it tonight.... but, I DO thank you for stating your thoughts.

Go ahead, hit him!
It's okay.

 

[FranC]

In Acts 16:31 and beyond, salvation was offered to the jailer and his household.
The jailer believed, had his whole household baptized, then they rejoiced because THEY ALL BELIEVED IN GOD!
Therefore, infants could not have been included unless they had the ability to believe.

Great point.

 

[Bogadile]

Sorry to come on in and make a completely unrelated post, but I think this is a simple thing so I decided not to create a whole new thread for it:

What if for example someone was baptized as John, then changed their name to Roger. Would their baptism still be considered valid? I would say so, God knows who they are still.

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus as our example....he waited until the age of around 30 to be immersed....can anyone show an example of a child being immersed in the N.T.......without a doubt a child?

 

[FranC]

Of course that is a man made rule.
A good question here is if an adult is baptized as an adult, and wants to join the catholic church, do they accept his baptism as valid.
Or if he has never been baptized, does the catholic church require he be baptized.
If yes, then would they then sprinkle baptize him?

The Catholic Church holds baptism in high regard and an adult baptized in ANY Church would be accepted.
In fact, they DO NOT believe my Brother would have to be baptized again because ANY baptism is valid.

Yes. If the adult wants to join the CC they go through a year of catechism and then they get baptized, First Communion, Confirmation. All 3 at once.

Yes. They would be sprinkled. Just like a baby ...

 

[AllenW]

Jesus as our example....he waited until the age of around 30 to be immersed....can anyone show an example of a child being immersed in the N.T.......without a doubt a child?

No sir, it's not there.
But where does it say it's not allowed?

 

[FranC]

It is the public testimony of faith and states to the world that you are dead with Christ, buried with Christ and resurrected a new creation in Christ....it is an painting or picture of your new birth and the 1st act of OBEDIENCE<----see I use the word every now and then HAHA

It is to the N.T. what circumcision was to the O.T.....an identifier......!

Let's clarify a little more...

You call it an "identifier"
I've taught the covenants and I would call it the "sign" of the covenant.

In the Abrahamic Covenant the Sign is Circumcision.

This is when the history of the O.T. starts so I'd agree you could call it that, let's just clarify that when one is speaking NOT OF THE O.T. but of the Old Covenant, or Mosaic covenant, then the Sign is: The Sabbath.

As far as the New Covenant, some theologians believe the Sign is the Eucharist or Communion
and some believe it is Baptism, as you've stated.

I like to think it's communion since it was such an important part of Jesus' message.
"Do this in memory of Me". Also baptism was also done in the O.T. (have you considered this??)

But, no matter.

I DO wonder why Jesus' thought it was important to get baptized.
I believe it has more to do with power.
With John the Baptist it had more to do with remission of sins.

 

[dcontroversal]

No sir, it's not there.
But where does it say it's not allowed?

Well, we have the prime example in Jesus and I am not saying a child cannot be, but do firmly believe a child must make a valid profession of faith before they are immersed.....without coaching and or some prescribed repeat after me formula....