Sabbath

[GandalfTheWhite]

Anyone who gets the impression from Acts 24-28 that Paul practised as a Jew AFTER his conversion to Christianity is someone with an ulterior motive!
Yes, Paul owned up to being a Jew!
And then he got saved and everything changed...
And, it certainly cannot be concluded when Paul's actual writings are studied!

Paul neither kept the law once he was saved and never instructed others to do that either.
As per usual you have to take verses out of context to try to "prove" your point!

Unfortunately you are being deceived by your own hate for the law and willingness not to keep it.

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, soworship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in thelaw and in the prophets:
Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall bea resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Paul made it clear that he still kept the Torah. If he didn't the Jews had reason to kill him. Every time they accused him they had to make up false allegations or they broke their own law and cursed themselves by plotting to kill him.

God bless friend

 

[LoveGodForever]

Anyone who gets the impression from Acts 24-28 that Paul practised as a Jew AFTER his conversion to Christianity is someone with an ulterior motive!
Yes, Paul owned up to being a Jew!
And then he got saved and everything changed...
And, it certainly cannot be concluded when Paul's actual writings are studied!

Paul neither kept the law once he was saved and never instructed others to do that either.
As per usual you have to take verses out of context to try to "prove" your point!

Hi graceNpeace,

Last time I checked the scriptures below are from the writings of the apostle Paul (just a few); We also know that Sin is the breaking of God's Law (1John 3:4)

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Rom 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Rom 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Rom 6:20
For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Rom 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1Co 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Heb 10:26-27
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Ok sorry there is too many. You get the point. We must follow God's Word. God's Sheep hear his voice.

God bless everyone and good night; Happy Sabbath my time

 

[gotime]

Israel did not try to obey with their faith.

Deu_32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Paul says it is because they tried to get there by their works and not faith was the problem:

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Sometimes I think people don't really get the actual difference between Old and New covenant.

Old is the work of men New is the work of God.

Adam and Eve trying to put on fig leaves Old Covenant.

God clothing them with skins New covenant.

Cain offering his best Old Covenant.

Able trusting in Gods directions New Covenant.

Abraham sleeping with Hagar Old covenant

Abraham child with Sarah New covenant.


Israel "all that the lord has said we will do" old covenant

Abraham believed God, New covenant.

 

[graceNpeace]

Hi graceNpeace,

Last time I checked the scriptures below are from the writings of the apostle Paul (just a few); We also know that Sin is the breaking of God's Law (1John 3:4)

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Rom 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Rom 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Rom 6:20
For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Rom 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1Co 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Heb 10:26-27
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Ok sorry there is too many. You get the point. We must follow God's Word. God's Sheep hear his voice.

God bless everyone and good night; Happy Sabbath my time

And you just continue to pull verses out of context to try and "prove" something...
You are barking up the wrong tree here - I know Romans and Hebrews almost well enough to quote verbatim - and you think that cherry picking a few verses here and there will impress me.
Try reading the whole chapter, or even better the whole book!

Unfortunately it is becoming more and more obvious to me that you are just intellectually dishonest and will say anything to "justify" your doctrinal heresies...

 

[JaumeJ]

When God finished creating six days He made the seventh day holy and separate.

Later in the wilderness and teh Children gathered the manna, He insstructed them to gather double on the sixth day to have for the seventh day.

He declared He was giving, a gift, them the seventh day to rest.

They were in the wilderness until JOshua took them across teh Jordan Rier on dry land for them to enter into the Promised land.

Until we cross over to the true Promised Land I am obliged to accept the gift of one day to rest from my earthly labors, and this includes all labors.

I may always do good, Sabbath or o.

Now, you all who believe cleverly pieced together words from Paul without consulting our Lord and SAvior may do whatever you believe appropriate and good in the sight of God as long as your consciences are clear, but do ntot condemn those who are still enjoying the gift of the Seventh Day for this is contrary to what Paul teaches YOU. I learn from Pau, and because of wht he teaches, I would never fault you for changing the order of the creation for you say you have a clearconscience and are fine with it.

Try applying Paul's teachings to those who choose to obey the commandments. After all they do it with a clearconscience in the grace afforded by the Blood of the Lam, the Passover Lamg, of god.

 

[JaumeJ]

Please bear with me for I am compelled to continue on this subject of Paul' teaching.

If my brother in Jesus Christ dow no eat a certain food because it offends him be it of the law or personal choice, why should he be faulted by me or you? He does it in good conscience.. And this is true of observing days and other traditions.

If you believe Paul, why do you question others who choose to please God by obeying His commandments. They do itin good conscience, and tehy do not say they are earning salvation you do.

I love to obey God in view of what He did, does and always will do just for me. If God makes each of us special, why do you think it trampling on the Blood to obey His commandments. It is trampling on the Blood to continue in disobedience, oops, in breaking the laws willfully.

If you do not understand what our Lord, Jesus Christ by His teaching and His Example has given us, fine, wait for it, but do not condemn or even criticize others who do understand, or if you prefer, conduct themselveswith good conscience in the sight of our God. If you are truly in good conscience in the sight of God, no harm no foul with me. I pray peace for all in this nonsensical and artificial debat.

 

[graceNpeace]

Unfortunately you are being deceived by your own hate for the law and willingness not to keep it.

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Paul made it clear that he still kept the Torah. If he didn't the Jews had reason to kill him. Every time they accused him they had to make up false allegations or they broke their own law and cursed themselves by plotting to kill him.

God bless friend

You know, you must take everybody for being fools!

I believe the law and prophets as well - and I know that the law is no longer binding.
And if you want to know what Paul thought about the law then go and read all of Romans!

As a matter of fact I do not "hate" the law...
That is your straw-man.
Legalists may be a different matter!

 

[Dan_473]

So brother Dan, I take it that you don't read the teachings of Paul (a Jew)? Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin. Do you understand why this qualify him to be Jewish?

I don't understand why you wrote this.

I said Paul was Jewish.

 

[JaumeJ]

In order for anyone to be a Jew by his ascentry, he must be born into the tribe of Judah.

Paul is not.

He is born into the tribe of Benjamin.

If you are using the word, Jewish, as a reference to religion, that is a denomination, it does not apply. Although it has come iinto vogue since the dissolving of the country that was Israel.

When the reference to being a "true Jew" is made by Paul he is refering to what the word Judah means, not to a tribe or a denomination.

A true Jew by the definition of the word and not refering to the tribe, is a person wh praises God. If you wish to learn this for yourself, read varied versions of Pauls description of a true Jew, and you will see he concludes the true Jew is one who praise God.

As concerning thw word Jew, in reference to religion, it is akin to using the word, Christia, as referring to religion. Both are umbrella names for various denominations

Judaism did not exist until the dissolution of Israel which led to aposgtetic teachings.......just as there are now within the Christian denominations.

If anyone is going to use the word, Jew or Jewish, let him know what ti actually means before dropping it.

 

[Dan_473]

Another thing we have to ask ourselves is, why did the other 11 disciples kept the law (them not being Jewish)?

All twelve disciples were Jewish, imo

they kept the law, for the most part

THE ACTS 10:28 He said to them, “You yourselves know how it is

an unlawful thing

for a man who is a Jew to join himself or come to one of another nation.
Jewish , imo

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus and the Twelve professed the faith of Abraham, there was no such a thing as Judaism until after the fall of Israel.

I believe today all who truly believe Jesus Christ are of the faith of Abraham, for this is the faith we have in Jesus Christ.

Why Abraham? He was the first to receive and believe the Gospel.

 

[Dai3234]

In order for anyone to be a Jew by his ascentry, he must be born into the tribe of Judah.

Paul is not.

He is born into the tribe of Benjamin.

If you are using the word, Jewish, as a reference to religion, that is a denomination, it does not apply. Although it has come iinto vogue since the dissolving of the country that was Israel.

When the reference to being a "true Jew" is made by Paul he is refering to what the word Judah means, not to a tribe or a denomination.

A true Jew by the definition of the word and not refering to the tribe, is a person wh praises God. If you wish to learn this for yourself, read varied versions of Pauls description of a true Jew, and you will see he concludes the true Jew is one who praise God.

As concerning thw word Jew, in reference to religion, it is akin to using the word, Christia, as referring to religion. Both are umbrella names for various denominations

Judaism did not exist until the dissolution of Israel which led to aposgtetic teachings.......just as there are now within the Christian denominations.

If anyone is going to use the word, Jew or Jewish, let him know what ti actually means before dropping it.

A Jew, is from the tribe of Judah, and is not the only tribe of Israel. The Bible says the bigger blessing (nation of peoples) goes to the son in a different tribe, that's not seen anymore(I heard, eg, father Israel deceived etc). Any truth in this?

 

[JaumeJ]

There are twelve tribes comprising what is Israel. Today ten are considered lost tribes.

You said as far as you areconcerned all twelve Aposttles were Jewish, as though it is a denomination. I suppose you thing, as regarding denominations, Jesus was alwao Jewish; they were of varied tribes and Jesus was of the Tribe of Judah as prophesied He would be.

As for Israel and what you have heard, if I have read this I do not recall. If you believe it important, please share the source of the dece3it saga and the details, that is providing the source is Biblical.

 

[Dai3234]

There are twelve tribes comprising what is Israel. Today ten are considered lost tribes.

You said as far as you areconcerned all twelve Aposttles were Jewish, as though it is a denomination. I suppose you thing, as regarding denominations, Jesus was alwao Jewish; they were of varied tribes and Jesus was of the Tribe of Judah as prophesied He would be.

As for Israel and what you have heard, if I have read this I do not recall. If you believe it important, please share the source of the dece3it saga and the details, that is providing the source is Biblical.

In sorry, I can only reference the general point. Israel was dying and was giving out blessings to his sons and one either conned him using hair on his hands etc, and is of a lost tribe. Therefore the nation blessings are of an unknown nation. The other son got a lesser blessing. Either that or they crossed hands. But I think it's the first.

 

[JaumeJ]

You have it partly correct. Israel was on his deathbed and he called Joseph to bring his two sons. When `he began to bless the two boys, he put his right hand on the youngest which by tradition should have been on the head of the eldest, but Israel knew their destinies, so when Jooseph said "Not so father" while attempting to chang the order of the hands, Israel corrected Joseph telling him the elder would also be blessed but the younger was to receive the greater blessing for the elder would serve the younger.

There was no deception........sorry, I misunderstood what was being asked. God bless you,.

In sorry, I can only reference the general point. Israel was dying and was giving out blessings to his sons and one either conned him using hair on his hands etc, and is of a lost tribe. Therefore the nation blessings are of an unknown nation. The other son got a lesser blessing. Either that or they crossed hands. But I think it's the first.

 

[Dai3234]

You have it partly correct. Israel was on his deathbed and he called Joseph to bring his two sons. When `he began to bless the two boys, he put his right hand on the youngest which by tradition should have been on the head of the eldest, but Israel knew their destinies, so when Jooseph said "Not so father" while attempting to chang the order of the hands, Israel corrected Joseph telling him the elder would also be blessed but the younger was to receive the greater blessing for the elder would serve the younger.

There was no deception........sorry, I misunderstood what was being asked. God bless you,.

AHH, yes. Joseph tribe split into Ephraim and mannaseh, they are lost tribes, yes? So the bigger blessing (nation) does not remain with the "Jews"?

 

[JaumeJ]

If this is how you understand it, I will not argue the pioint, but all the blessing of Messiah came through the tribe of Judah.

The nation of Israel before completely dissoving had matured into Judah in the south and Israel to the north, both kingdoms, neither of which ae still in existence.

AHH, yes. Joseph tribe split into Ephraim and mannaseh, they are lost tribes, yes? So the bigger blessing (nation) does not remain with the "Jews"?

 

[Dan_473]

In order for anyone to be a Jew by his ascentry, he must be born into the tribe of Judah.

Paul is not.

He is born into the tribe of Benjamin.

If you are using the word, Jewish, as a reference to religion, that is a denomination, it does not apply. Although it has come iinto vogue since the dissolving of the country that was Israel.

When the reference to being a "true Jew" is made by Paul he is refering to what the word Judah means, not to a tribe or a denomination.

A true Jew by the definition of the word and not refering to the tribe, is a person wh praises God. If you wish to learn this for yourself, read varied versions of Pauls description of a true Jew, and you will see he concludes the true Jew is one who praise God.

As concerning thw word Jew, in reference to religion, it is akin to using the word, Christia, as referring to religion. Both are umbrella names for various denominations

Judaism did not exist until the dissolution of Israel which led to aposgtetic teachings.......just as there are now within the Christian denominations.

If anyone is going to use the word, Jew or Jewish, let him know what ti actually means before dropping it.

Paul says
THE ACTS 22:3 “I am indeed a Jew.

and I think the same meaning
GALATIANS 2:14 why do you compel the Gentiles to live as

the Jews do?

 

[JaumeJ]

Read all Paul says about being a Jew. He is making reference to the full translation of the word, Judah, from the Hebrew. I too may say I am a Jew, for I am a praiser of God (Yah). I am sorry this may be too much for you to understand, that Jew does not mean a denomination of any kind in Pau's reference.

Paul says
THE ACTS 22:3 “I am indeed a Jew.

and I think the same meaning
GALATIANS 2:14 why do you compel the Gentiles to live as

the Jews do?

 

[Dan_473]

Read all Paul says about being a Jew. He is making reference to the full translation of the word, Judah, from the Hebrew. I too may say I am a Jew, for I am a praiser of God (Yah). I am sorry this may be too much for you to understand, that Jew does not mean a denomination of any kind in Pau's reference.

I hear you!

whatever Paul means by Jew, he means that here

GALATIANS 2:14 why do you compel the Gentiles to live as

the Jews

do?