About Judaizing

[JaumeJ]

Jesus teaches us all about how the law is to be veiwed, understood and, if you will, observed while living His Example as best possible.

Remember if you believe He is the Son of God, you are saved, but also believe mens hearing Him only and acting accordly, that is according to what you learn of Him, for His Yoke is light, His burden is easy..

I don't like the reappearance of the notion that Christians are under the law of Moses. That they are not is clearly explained in Acts. No one can miss it. But this stuff has popped out all of a sudden, at the end of the age, which is an awfully suspicious time to find radical changes in Christian doctrine. The Hebrew Roots guys show their true colors by their dislike of the Apostle Paul. It is because these beliefs come hand in hand with the insistence that we change our pronunciation of the name of Jesus that I am even suspicious of that pronunciation. I know that the name "Jesus" is not Hebrew, but I would not trust an "authentic" pronunciation insisted upon 2000 years later by those who do not like the Apostle Paul and who clearly have a problem with what is in the book of Acts. Next we'll be told that Peter's dream about non-kosher dinners has some convoluted meaning that no one can understand without a rabbi. And then we'll be told that the Talmud has valuable information in it that we should study up on. And then we'll be told that we need to fight WWIII over the rebuilding of the temple. So on and so forth.

 

[JaumeJ]

I am complety familiar with the etyimology of the word, semite, and the evolution of its use and, again if you will, its misuse.

All know what is intended from the term and this meanins is perfectly acceptable.

The true word would be antihebraic, for Hebrew refers to all the descendants of Abraham

Also, I'd like to say that semites are a family/race of people. It is not a religion. Judaism is a religion. At this point, it has nothing to do with a race of people. I'd like to refer to an old text, hope you guys won't "judge" the author:

"I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against
them. But since I learned that those miserable and accursed people do
not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I
have published this little book, so that I might be found among those
who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews and who warned the
Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed
that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and
wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world,
and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with
the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen."

-Martin Luther

 

[JaumeJ]

I am not here to discuss etymologies or split hairs on meanings of terms and words, especially when it is completely clear by context.

Forgive my branching off.


This does not contradict the explanations of what is in the Word; in this area some words need elaborations for those who do not understahd by the Holy Spirit (yet).

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

In other words Paul teaches error?
That is nonsense!
There is no difference in principle between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught.
The main difference was that Jesus had a job to do in perfectly obeying the law in order to institute the New Covenant, whereas Paul taught from the perspective of the New Covenant already being instituted.

The bottom line is that the covenant God made with Moses (and Israel) - and this includes the ten commandments since they are the absolute centrepiece of that covenant - is no longer binding on New Covenant believers.

You are quick to anger

Many on this website is using Paul's teaching to push their agenda's. Paul kept the law, even when he came to know Jesus.

 

[beta]

Jesus teaches us all about how the law is to be veiwed, understood and, if you will, observed while living His Example as best possible.

Remember if you believe He is the Son of God, you are saved, but also believe mens hearing Him only and acting accordly, that is according to what you learn of Him, for His Yoke is light, His burden is easy..

Agreed - JESUS is our SAVIOR and also our Teacher come from God....and in order to come to fully know Him we need to become HIS willing, loving and obedient Disciples and walk with HIM 24/7 ! Heb 5v9.
The Spirit of Christ will allow us 'direct access to God our Father Eph 2v18 and should always be our 'leading Light !
Paul is great if you want to take the long way round 1Cor 11v1.

 

[Grace777x70]

It looks like here that Paul is telling the "gentile Christians " not to get circumcised which is totally against the law of Moses.

Galatians 5:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

If sin is transgression of the law ( and it is ) then not to get circumcised in the Jewish religion would "make the Jew unrighteous" by not following all that is in the law.

If one is going to live by the law - then he is obligated to live by all of it. There are no "parts" to the Law. Paul said that "coveting" was in the Law.

Saying that some laws are for us and some are not is just watering down the Law to make it seem "do-able" but in reality "law-keepers" have a very low respect for the Law and in fact break the law every day.

Romans 10:4-5 (NASB)

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

We have died to the Law SO THAT we might live unto God.

Galatians 2:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

There is no justification or right standing with God because one "keeps the law". Christians live by faith - faith in Christ and what He has already done and we live by His life in us now.

Galatians 3:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11[/SUP] Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

The Law is NOT of faith and if you practice the Law - you must live by it.

Galatians 3:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

When we are trying to keep the law of which circumcision is a part of - we are obligated to keep the whole law

( Remember there are NO PARTS to the law - it is either all or live by Christ by grace through faith in His finished work on the cross and resurrection )

Galatians 5:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ in us to lead us into life in Him. Let's eat from the tree of Life - which is Christ Himself in us.

The Law is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We were not meant to eat from that tree. That is for God.

We were meant to eat from the tree of Life which is Christ Himself. Choose Christ. He is our life. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. ( NOT in the law of Moses )

 

[JaumeJ]

When you hear Jesus you know what Paul is saying too, for Paul teaches theGodpel of Jesus Christ. No one here has told anyone they need to be circumcised, so what are you talking about?

It looks like here that Paul is telling the "gentile Christians " not to get circumcised which is totally against the law of Moses.

Galatians 5:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

If sin is transgression of the law ( and it is ) then not to get circumcised in the Jewish religion would "make the Jew unrighteous" by not following all that is in the law.

If one is going to live by the law - then he is obligated to live by all of it. There are no "parts" to the Law. Paul said that "coveting" was in the Law.

Saying that some laws are for us and some are not is just watering down the Law to make it seem "do-able" but in reality "law-keepers" have a very low respect for the Law and in fact break the law every day.

Romans 10:4-5 (NASB)

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

[SUP]5[/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

We have died to the Law SO THAT we might live unto God.

Galatians 2:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

There is no justification or right standing with God because one "keeps the law". Christians live by faith - faith in Christ and what He has already done and we live by His life in us now.

Galatians 3:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11[/SUP] Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

The Law is NOT of faith and if you practice the Law - you must live by it.

Galatians 3:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

When we are trying to keep the law of which circumcision is a part of - we are obligated to keep the whole law

( Remember there are NO PARTS to the law - it is either all or live by Christ by grace through faith in His finished work on the cross and resurrection )

Galatians 5:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ in us to lead us into life in Him. Let's eat from the tree of Life - which is Christ Himself in us.

The Law is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We were not meant to eat from that tree. That is for God.

We were meant to eat from the tree of Life which is Christ Himself. Choose Christ. He is our life. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. ( NOT in the law of Moses )

 

[pete9]

I am complety familiar with the etyimology of the word, semite, and the evolution of its use and, again if you will, its misuse.

All know what is intended from the term and this meanins is perfectly acceptable.

The true word would be antihebraic, for Hebrew refers to all the descendants of Abraham

I don't think it is acceptable for words to "develop" meaning (via propaganda?) that is contrary to the word's actual definition. Language "adjustment" is a tool of the communists. The truth should be maintained, we should insist that words be used which mean what they actually mean, regardless of how far the public has been convinced to bend their brains.

 

[pete9]

I think it is time to review modern history, and to ask ourselves when exactly all of this stuff started. For some reason, I have a hard time imagining anyone from ancient Rome unto, let's say the age of "enlightenment", having the nerve to critique the apostle Paul. To me, it is Christianity under attack.

1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven fallen unto the earth: and there was given to him the key of the pit of the abyss. 2And he opened the pit of the abyss; and there went up a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3And out of the smoke came forth locusts upon the earth; and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4And it was said unto them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree, but only such men as have not the seal of God on their foreheads. 5And it was given them that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when it striketh a man. 6And in those days men shall seek death, and shall in no wise find it; and they shall desire to die, and death fleeth from them.

7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared for war; and upon their heads as it were crowns like unto gold, and their faces were as men's faces. 8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as teeth of lions. 9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots, of many horses rushing to war. 10And they have tails like unto scorpions, and stings; and in their tails is their power to hurt men five months. 11They have over them as king the angel of the abyss: his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek tongue he hath the name Apollyon.

 

[mailmandan]

When you hear Jesus you know what Paul is saying too, for Paul teaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

What do you believe the gospel of Christ is and what do you believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16).

 

[JaumeJ]

This is another question alredy answered in my post, but if you need it again. Jesus Christ teaches if we believe He is teh Son oGod we are saved.

You do know when we believe Someone is the Son of God we hear Him and do as He teaches.........if this does not cover it all for anyone who has ears, there is nothing more to be done for them...... May God bless all who are in Jesus christ.

What do you believe the gospel of Christ is and what do you believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16).

 

[JaumeJ]

Etymology is the science of word history and development. All words have an etymology.. That is unless you know the language of Adam and Eve.

I don't think it is acceptable for words to "develop" meaning (via propaganda?) that is contrary to the word's actual definition. Language "adjustment" is a tool of the communists. The truth should be maintained, we should insist that words be used which mean what they actually mean, regardless of how far the public has been convinced to bend their brains.

 

[pete9]

Etymology is the science of word history and development. All words have an etymology.. That is unless you know the language of Adam and Eve.

Is it etymology to convert "homosexual" or "sodomite" to "gay"?
Is it etymology to convert "murder" to "pro-choice"?

When an agenda is in charge of etymology via mass-propaganda, it is simply deception.

 

[JaumeJ]

Who has critiques Paul? If I say he is not oneof the Twelve, that is teh foundations of New Jerusalem, it is the truth, not a critique. If I say he is the one responsible according to scholars for the elevating of Christian practice at his time from a sect to a religion, this is from the scholars, and I am simply conveying their words. The also credit Paul for the doctrines on grace.

Because I have readd this and understand I simply have mentioned her that whe Jeuss says if we believe Him to be the Son of God we are saved, you cannot receive more grace and mercy than this.

It is always easiest for anyone to learn directly from God, that is, from Jesus, than second hand. It is alway glorious. You put your fiath in Paul? Then hear him when he teaches there is no other Gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Chrsit, it is the same Gospel as was givin Abraham long before there was teh law.

Critiguqing? I think you should dlearn another word for this. I am sharing the Word as given me.

I think it is time to review modern history, and to ask ourselves when exactly all of this stuff started. For some reason, I have a hard time imagining anyone from ancient Rome unto, let's say the age of "enlightenment", having the nerve to critique the apostle Paul. To me, it is Christianity under attack.

1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven fallen unto the earth: and there was given to him the key of the pit of the abyss. 2And he opened the pit of the abyss; and there went up a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3And out of the smoke came forth locusts upon the earth; and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4And it was said unto them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree, but only such men as have not the seal of God on their foreheads. 5And it was given them that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when it striketh a man. 6And in those days men shall seek death, and shall in no wise find it; and they shall desire to die, and death fleeth from them.

7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared for war; and upon their heads as it were crowns like unto gold, and their faces were as men's faces. 8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as teeth of lions. 9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots, of many horses rushing to war. 10And they have tails like unto scorpions, and stings; and in their tails is their power to hurt men five months. 11They have over them as king the angel of the abyss: his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek tongue he hath the name Apollyon.

 

[pete9]

Who has critiques Paul? If I say he is not oneof the Twelve, that is teh foundations of New Jerusalem, it is the truth, not a critique. If I say he is the one responsible according to scholars for the elevating of Christian practice at his time from a sect to a religion, this is from the scholars, and I am simply conveying their words. The also credit Paul for the doctrines on grace.

Because I have readd this and understand I simply have mentioned her that whe Jeuss says if we believe Him to be the Son of God we are saved, you cannot receive more grace and mercy than this.

It is always easiest for anyone to learn directly from God, that is, from Jesus, than second hand. It is alway glorious. You put your fiath in Paul? Then hear him when he teaches there is no other Gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Chrsit, it is the same Gospel as was givin Abraham long before there was teh law.

Critiguqing? I think you should dlearn another word for this. I am sharing the Word as given me.

Shall I "hear him" sometimes, at times where modern interpreters approve, or shall I hear him all of the time?

I want to know what you think about bacon. Is it eatable by Christians, in your opinion?

What do you think of the Talmud? Is it accursed, only fit for the trashcan? Or is it something that we can "learn" a thing or two from?

What do you think about the state of Israel? Is it the job of Christians to serve them and help them fight for the real estate they desire?

I'd like some direct answers.

 

[mailmandan]

This is another question alredy answered in my post, but if you need it again. Jesus Christ teaches if we believe He is teh Son oGod we are saved.

You do know when we believe Someone is the Son of God we hear Him and do as He teaches.........if this does not cover it all for anyone who has ears, there is nothing more to be done for them...... May God bless all who are in Jesus christ.

So to believe means to perfectly obey and salvation is by works? Is that the gospel you are teaching? I believe the gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) and to BELIEVE the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

 

[loveme1]

So to believe means to perfectly obey and salvation is by works? Is that the gospel you are teaching? I believe the gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) and to BELIEVE the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Read what the Messiah taught.... The Messiah that died and rose again gives Testimony... it is by hearing and doing that we are counted Faithful or unfaithful servants.

 

[mailmandan]

Read what the Messiah taught.... The Messiah that died and rose again gives Testimony... it is by hearing and doing that we are counted Faithful or unfaithful servants.

So where do you draw the line in the sand on faithful and unfaithful servants? What do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16)

 

[JaumeJ]

You, my firend sound very antagonistic. You are not interested inthe teaching of Jesus Christ for were you you wold alrelady understand all about foods and the priesthood, and the Temple and the laws in general, but you are instead baitng me with "I want to know how you feel about bacon." That is over the top..... Again, apparently you have not read what Jesus teaches on the subject of clean andunclean foods. That is a shame. I have, I know, and I do as He teaches.

May God bless you with holy tolerance and understanding. (not that other kind of tlerance.)

Shall I "hear him" sometimes, at times where modern interpreters approve, or shall I hear him all of the time?

I want to know what you think about bacon. Is it eatable by Christians, in your opinion?

What do you think of the Talmud? Is it accursed, only fit for the trashcan? Or is it something that we can "learn" a thing or two from?

What do you think about the state of Israel? Is it the job of Christians to serve them and help them fight for the real estate they desire?

I'd like some direct answers.

 

[JaumeJ]

This has been addressed by me throughout my posts within this thread and in many others. It sounds as though you are looking for contention, and this is not the way of teh family in Christ..... You should well know where I stand on these points of learning from Jesus Christ. I bid you go to my posts. The responses are already there just for you and for all.

So to believe means to perfectly obey and salvation is by works? Is that the gospel you are teaching? I believe the gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) and to BELIEVE the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.