Not By Works
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why do you, not ask jesus , if you have faith in god. the problem with denying god, is an adult,you will be answerable, for there own choice. only a pea brain, without an answer , would speculate , and show the internet, what fool is this, when did we have the iq to teach your kids, how to die, in speculation to slander.
for example
war saved you also, please read an weep,
For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
when did god, need a watchman, when did you enter death, the stone the builder rejected, was your grave stone. (could be speculation) if logic ,needs two side, to condemn you. what side are you on. etc
for example
war saved you also, please read an weep,
For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
when did god, need a watchman, when did you enter death, the stone the builder rejected, was your grave stone. (could be speculation) if logic ,needs two side, to condemn you. what side are you on. etc
The Falling away from the "Fishbowl" of God's Word
I like the scriptures from this post
Colossians 1v21-23
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled <become believers> [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— [SUP]23 [/SUP]if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-These were believers above
-They were to be presented holy, blameless and above reproach (no scope for unrepentant sin in a believers life)
-this is possible (IF THEY CONTINUED IN THE FAITH) - grounded, steadfast, not moved.
Other evidences:
Luke 22 v31-32
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And the Lord said,[SUP][c][/SUP] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. [SUP]32 [/SUP]But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”
Now what is plain to see is this:
-If it were not possible for faith to fail, as the strong delusionalists claim, then it would not be necessary for Jesus to have had to pray to the Father this prayer above.
1 Timothy 2 v18-20
[SUP]18 [/SUP]This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, [SUP]19 [/SUP]having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, [SUP]20 [/SUP]of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
2 Timothy 2 v16-19
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, [SUP]18 [/SUP]who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ[SUP][c][/SUP] depart from iniquity.”
Now what is plain to see is this:
-its possible to stray concerning the truth
-its possible to once have known the truth but to have strayed therefrom
-faith can be overthrown.
-these people are no longer saved. Because you can only receive salvation through faith.
-sin is still a factor " Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity". Contrary to what the strong delusionalists say.
Jude
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-contending for the faith - its a prize. It is to be protected, defended, fought for.
-by not contending for this, it can be lost.
2 Timothy 4v7-8
[SUP]7 [/SUP]I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Paul, writer of most of the New Testament, fought the good fight. Finished the course. And KEPT the faith.
-why would it be necessary for him to write about "kept the faith" if it wasn't possible to have lost faith.
1 John 5v4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our[SUP][a][/SUP] faith.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Our faith is what overcomes the world. We are supposed to OVERCOME THE WORLD.
-What is the world? (definition:1 John 2v16 [SUP]16 [/SUP]For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world).
Revelation 2v10b
10(b) Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Faith is not a once off, momentary decision, applicable for all time.
-Faith, once received, once believed, is to be maintained.
-the corollary is this - if you are NOT faithful until death, or lose your faith, you shall not receive the crown of life.
The word is very clear - its to him who overcomes:
Revelation 2v7b To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life
Revelation 2v11b He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.
Revelation 2v17b To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
Revelation 2v26 [SUP]26 [/SUP]And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
Revelation 3v5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life
Revelation 3v12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more.
Revelation 3v21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne
Now to those who lose the faith. Who once had the faith yet turned their backs on Christ, we have the subject matter of the 'other' thread. Which is clearly visible for all to see below:
Hebrews 6v4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][b][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Let there no illusions that these were believers, and were once in the faith.
-once they "fall away" (and we can see that this is a very real risk warned about by the NT writers, as well as Jesus) to be renewed again unto repentance.
Greek Meaning of "Falling Away" = Leaving God; or leaving the faith
I love God's Word it shows us the truth
God bless
I like the scriptures from this post
Colossians 1v21-23
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled <become believers> [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— [SUP]23 [/SUP]if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-These were believers above
-They were to be presented holy, blameless and above reproach (no scope for unrepentant sin in a believers life)
-this is possible (IF THEY CONTINUED IN THE FAITH) - grounded, steadfast, not moved.
Other evidences:
Luke 22 v31-32
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And the Lord said,[SUP][c][/SUP] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. [SUP]32 [/SUP]But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”
Now what is plain to see is this:
-If it were not possible for faith to fail, as the strong delusionalists claim, then it would not be necessary for Jesus to have had to pray to the Father this prayer above.
1 Timothy 2 v18-20
[SUP]18 [/SUP]This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, [SUP]19 [/SUP]having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, [SUP]20 [/SUP]of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
2 Timothy 2 v16-19
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, [SUP]18 [/SUP]who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ[SUP][c][/SUP] depart from iniquity.”
Now what is plain to see is this:
-its possible to stray concerning the truth
-its possible to once have known the truth but to have strayed therefrom
-faith can be overthrown.
-these people are no longer saved. Because you can only receive salvation through faith.
-sin is still a factor " Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity". Contrary to what the strong delusionalists say.
Jude
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-contending for the faith - its a prize. It is to be protected, defended, fought for.
-by not contending for this, it can be lost.
2 Timothy 4v7-8
[SUP]7 [/SUP]I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Paul, writer of most of the New Testament, fought the good fight. Finished the course. And KEPT the faith.
-why would it be necessary for him to write about "kept the faith" if it wasn't possible to have lost faith.
1 John 5v4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our[SUP][a][/SUP] faith.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Our faith is what overcomes the world. We are supposed to OVERCOME THE WORLD.
-What is the world? (definition:1 John 2v16 [SUP]16 [/SUP]For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world).
Revelation 2v10b
10(b) Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Faith is not a once off, momentary decision, applicable for all time.
-Faith, once received, once believed, is to be maintained.
-the corollary is this - if you are NOT faithful until death, or lose your faith, you shall not receive the crown of life.
The word is very clear - its to him who overcomes:
Revelation 2v7b To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life
Revelation 2v11b He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.
Revelation 2v17b To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
Revelation 2v26 [SUP]26 [/SUP]And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
Revelation 3v5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life
Revelation 3v12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more.
Revelation 3v21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne
Now to those who lose the faith. Who once had the faith yet turned their backs on Christ, we have the subject matter of the 'other' thread. Which is clearly visible for all to see below:
Hebrews 6v4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][b][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Now what is plain to see is this:
-Let there no illusions that these were believers, and were once in the faith.
-once they "fall away" (and we can see that this is a very real risk warned about by the NT writers, as well as Jesus) to be renewed again unto repentance.
Greek Meaning of "Falling Away" = Leaving God; or leaving the faith
I love God's Word it shows us the truth
God bless
the spiritual voice, only you can discern, by your self, being a child of god, they hear god voice.
or do you hear, slander, hate , kill , steal , etc
small problem you have with logic.
42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead Acts 10
the dead are still alive, if logic need closure.
sorry i am subtle
subtle
ˈsʌt(ə)l/
adjective
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
or do you hear, slander, hate , kill , steal , etc
small problem you have with logic.
42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead Acts 10
the dead are still alive, if logic need closure.
sorry i am subtle
subtle
ˈsʌt(ə)l/
adjective
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
- 1.
(especially of a change or distinction) so delicate or precise as to be difficult to analyse or describe.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"his language expresses rich and subtle meanings"[/COLOR]
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]fine, fine-drawn, ultra-fine, nice, overnice, minute, precise, narrow, tenuous; More
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
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[TD][/TD]
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[TD]
[/TD]
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[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
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[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
- 2.
making use of clever and indirect methods to achieve something.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"he tried a more subtle approach"
this big brother studded for a reason. , the next human , prayer ,that wakes me up , will be getting his ass kicked , in a lovable way. \0/
[/COLOR]
I think you may have misunderstood my intended use of the word fishbowl.
I will clarify.
My faith in God and the finished work of Jesus Christ is established.
God has promised to finish what he started in me.
Therefore I cannot lose my faith, nor fall away.
If I could I would make God a liar.
I don't have that kind of authority.
Fishbowl had nothing to do with Gods words, only those that wish to twist Gods words in order to judge me as I live in a fishbowl for all of those in this world to see. (Of course as an analogy)
I will clarify.
My faith in God and the finished work of Jesus Christ is established.
God has promised to finish what he started in me.
Therefore I cannot lose my faith, nor fall away.
If I could I would make God a liar.
I don't have that kind of authority.
Fishbowl had nothing to do with Gods words, only those that wish to twist Gods words in order to judge me as I live in a fishbowl for all of those in this world to see. (Of course as an analogy)
- this is your personal walk, with god, please understand the meaning of personal walk with,
- death will be personal with you, oops the joy of slanderers , with no goal or proof, when did god make money.
- manna from heaven.adults need a long shot logic to keep them up to speed, . logic asks, who will buy your head stone, please underline, head stone, so that there will be, no mistake, in what money controls, the problem with using someone else s logic you need to be approved. (by who)
a police force was formed to protect ,the gentry, for the poor , now it protect the world, with your tax dollars, so you can breath free air. etc
I had a thought. A group claim as ex-legalists it is the legalists who are the true evil
in the world. How do you spot them?
Oh we know they cry. They show themselves by not believing in absolute security.
What a denial to believe people are susceptible to sin, and the fight is love verses
rebellion.
What is ironic is the pedantic legalistic definition of the failure of true revelation rather
than seeing love not working in someone's heart, which shows a spiritual issue. A true
believer has a heart of flesh yet many display hearts of stone, while claiming they know
the living God.
How is it a few words written and some will write off a believer. What matters more,
someone's heart or how they express it? It is always easier to condemn and find fault
rather than see blessing and share it. This world is full of hard hearted critics and too
few of people who love peoples souls. What does Jesus call us to be?
I personally have found those who claim loudly to know and put people right are often
those who find it impossible to empathise, which denies there whole position in Christ.
in the world. How do you spot them?
Oh we know they cry. They show themselves by not believing in absolute security.
What a denial to believe people are susceptible to sin, and the fight is love verses
rebellion.
What is ironic is the pedantic legalistic definition of the failure of true revelation rather
than seeing love not working in someone's heart, which shows a spiritual issue. A true
believer has a heart of flesh yet many display hearts of stone, while claiming they know
the living God.
How is it a few words written and some will write off a believer. What matters more,
someone's heart or how they express it? It is always easier to condemn and find fault
rather than see blessing and share it. This world is full of hard hearted critics and too
few of people who love peoples souls. What does Jesus call us to be?
I personally have found those who claim loudly to know and put people right are often
those who find it impossible to empathise, which denies there whole position in Christ.
U
Secure salvation plain as day!
Hebrews 6 v4-6
For it is impossible for the believer, if they should fall away (go to back to the law and dead works) to renew themselves again to repentance (be born again, since, one can only be born again once) since trying Born Again, AGAIN makes
the cross insufficient and puts Jesus to open shame saying His sacrifice was not enough.
The writer in Hebrews is telling us to move on to maturity, not this cycle of repentance and cleansing as in the NT sacrificial system which the Hebrews were trying to do.
It is impossible to be born again twice or more because this one sacrifice is sufficient.
Context!!
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][b][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
God promised to finish what He started if we stay with Him.
In your world God made Adam fall, and chose to save who He wanted, and turns their hearts as
a puppet on a string. Either this is the world or we can choose, and we could walk away from
the Lord. I think this fear of love is a choice is full of rejection and failure rather than Gods
free choice in the cross proves His love, so it is up to us alone to respond to His love.
And I ask you, sincerely, why would you not?
In your world God made Adam fall, and chose to save who He wanted, and turns their hearts as
a puppet on a string. Either this is the world or we can choose, and we could walk away from
the Lord. I think this fear of love is a choice is full of rejection and failure rather than Gods
free choice in the cross proves His love, so it is up to us alone to respond to His love.
And I ask you, sincerely, why would you not?
W
ooh don't call be sir, Bill is fine
I am not getting at you but trying to get a handle on you and where you are coming from.
To me a person who has placed their faith in Jesus, a genuine faith and admits that they do sin, whether it be in thought word and deed do not number themselves with the wicked.
If they did then they would not acknowledge that they have sinned. The wicked do not do that.
I am reading from the abode that you are saying that if they say that they sin then they are no better than the devil, so you seem to be saying they are children of the devil and not God.
You always seem to focus on the sins of the flesh, but what about the sins of the heart?
Jesus said look at someone with lust then you have comittte adultery but that person has not comitted the physical act. So it that person going to hell along with the one who has comitted the physical act?
Yes David went through periods of repentance and in fact look at his story he probably spent most of his life doing that given all the stuff he did.
Under the the law he should have been put to death.
But God said He is a man after my own heart, that was the case for the whole of David's life.
When David took the census and God was angry he gave him three choices of punishment,.
David chose the 3rd choice.
As a result 70,000 people were killed over 3 days. He could have chosen 3 months from fleeing before his enemies.
But no David said let 70,000 people die for my sin.
That was way after he committed adultery and had Bathsheba's husband killed.
Yes sin does have consequence.
But if David who was under the law but his sin was to be exacted by death yet God still considered him a man after his own heart
how much more so does God consider us people after his own heart when the punishment of sin was exacted on Jesus?
Please don't assume that when people acknowledge that they sin but when they do then they are aligned with the devil.
They are we are believers after the heart of God.
The vile sins of the flesh as such are not the problem, the problem is why?
To me the vile sins of the flesh are the issue. You quoted them above.
Can you honestly say that you have not comitted any one them?
Can you honestly say that you don't have to guard yourself against any one of them?
If so and then have fallen foul are you aligned with the devil?
As a child God whilst you beat your flesh but what's in your heart, have you overcome that?
Sir Bill
I am not getting at you but trying to get a handle on you and where you are coming from.
To me a person who has placed their faith in Jesus, a genuine faith and admits that they do sin, whether it be in thought word and deed do not number themselves with the wicked.
If they did then they would not acknowledge that they have sinned. The wicked do not do that.
I am reading from the abode that you are saying that if they say that they sin then they are no better than the devil, so you seem to be saying they are children of the devil and not God.
You always seem to focus on the sins of the flesh, but what about the sins of the heart?
Jesus said look at someone with lust then you have comittte adultery but that person has not comitted the physical act. So it that person going to hell along with the one who has comitted the physical act?
Yes David went through periods of repentance and in fact look at his story he probably spent most of his life doing that given all the stuff he did.
Under the the law he should have been put to death.
But God said He is a man after my own heart, that was the case for the whole of David's life.
When David took the census and God was angry he gave him three choices of punishment,.
David chose the 3rd choice.
As a result 70,000 people were killed over 3 days. He could have chosen 3 months from fleeing before his enemies.
But no David said let 70,000 people die for my sin.
That was way after he committed adultery and had Bathsheba's husband killed.
Yes sin does have consequence.
But if David who was under the law but his sin was to be exacted by death yet God still considered him a man after his own heart
how much more so does God consider us people after his own heart when the punishment of sin was exacted on Jesus?
Please don't assume that when people acknowledge that they sin but when they do then they are aligned with the devil.
They are we are believers after the heart of God.
The vile sins of the flesh as such are not the problem, the problem is why?
To me the vile sins of the flesh are the issue. You quoted them above.
Can you honestly say that you have not comitted any one them?
Can you honestly say that you don't have to guard yourself against any one of them?
If so and then have fallen foul are you aligned with the devil?
As a child God whilst you beat your flesh but what's in your heart, have you overcome that?
Sir Bill
note I can think of possibly only one other account where one fell into grievous sin as did David and recovered...there is no easy recovery for willful rebellion once one has become born again..Jesus said they were better off never knowing the goodness of God...
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