Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

Exactly!!

It seems "belief" is attacked because it is viewed as a weak point, but the result of right belief is being born again.

Only a fool would argue that one can be unborn. It is truly a position that the gates of hell cannot prevail against.

Amen!

Some things cannot come from a change of mind after things have been put into being as an established truth.

Can someone by an "act of their will" or "changing their mind" un-born themselves from being a human being?

Can they one day say "I don't want to be a human anymore so I as an act of my will by changing my mind - I am un-borning myself" ( we would think there is something wrong with this person's mind and there is.. )

Can some one by "an act of their will" through the "changing of their mind" stop being a son/daughter to their father?

Of course not - they will always be the child of their parents once they are born whether they go crazy in their thinking or not.

We can no more by "an act of our will" un-born ourselves from God which Peter says we are born again of incorruptible seed which lives and abides forever.

We cannot "un-child" ourselves from being God's child because of Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

( we can however become sick in our minds as the person that wants to "un-born" themselves as a human or as a child of their parent but the real us - the inner man of the heart that is in Christ - that inner man has his will entwined with God's perfect will because of union with Christ )

This is one of the reasons we need to "renew our mind" to align up with the spiritual truths that are in our new spirit in Christ.

Following God's commandments to us will be a natural result of being in Christ as we grow up in Him.

We are looking at what "we do" when we say that we lose salvation for going to heaven instead of what "Jesus has already done". It is a works-based doctrine that actually denies the work and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be with you and in you forever. Now, is Jesus a liar? That's a question to ask ourselves.

Our Father will perfect that which concerns us for it is He that is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. I'll trust His love in us to "guide us" through life. Phil. 2:13

There is also discipline of the Lord ( child-training in Greek - not "un-childing" them as children ) This proves that we are legitimate children of God.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

 

[PHart]

Speaking for myself only, how do you see this occurring? Maybe you have a revelation we could all benefit from.

Can a believer become an unbeliever? That's the $64.00 question.

In all my years of discussing OSAS on line I realized the question of OSAS comes down to if a true believer can really stop believing. We know from the scriptures what will happen to the person who stops believing. What we wonder is if the believer can really stop believing.

Are the warnings in the Bible to not stop believing sufficient to keep the true believer from ever becoming a former believer? Or is it possible for the genuine believer to stop believing and that's why God warns us to not stop believing? I'm of the opinion at this point that the true believer can indeed stop believing and be lost. I know a person who had the genuine gift of tongues (signifying the indwelling Holy Spirit) who stopped believing by their own admission, and their life showed it. I also know this person had weak faith right from the beginning, not 'no faith at all' as some explain why a believer falls.

 

[followjesus]

I agree completely with this, I just wanted to clarify what was said. No, works do not earn salvation. Salvation is a gift based on faith. Works are a manifestation of the saving faith in Jesus dying on the cross for our sins.

honestly i think a definition of what people are referring to as good works is needed. it will never ever be okay with God nor acceptable for a Christian who claims faith, to ignore repentance and right living, right actions. if Good and bad works are being referred to Here as righteousness and sin, its way off. if a person doesnt believe in Jesus they can do all the good they wish and wont inherit eternal Life. But its not the same when reveresed. if a person Believes in Jesus, its not acceptable to God that He gave His Only begotten Son to horrifying agony and death, so we can go on living sinful Lives guilt free, it just doesnt work that way. if we dont reveive the spirit were done, and to have Gods Spirit living in you, will not ever even One time lead us to think well you know im a good person sure when i look at Gods Word, His ways i am living opposite most of them, sure i lie, cheat a little, im pretty violent and yeah i have a heart that is half full of lust, i watch porn sometimes, i like to do things my own way and decide what i think is right.......that is not a possibility with Gods Spirit. that same person who receives Gods spirit will begin feeling conviction for all of those things, and then we absolutely have to follow that conviction to repentance, even repentance is given with Gods spirit its His own nature in us, like Jesus Christ. Men and women who have God living in us and with us.

we arent expected to be flawless but never should we make room to sin a little or alot and then claim salvation thats in no way Gods design. surely the moment we receive Jesus were new and clean, meaning were completely forgiven for all we have done the little stuff the big stuff. were suare with the House, reconciled to God who we seperated ourselves from because of the very sin were talking about making room for, making provision for. were called to put those things to death and walk in the new spirit.

to suggest that there are no rewuirements of repentance may not be what people are saying, if so its not at all even close. Good works dont ave, Jesus does, but How does He save? the ultimate answer is through faith in Him we receive Gods Spirit, the new spirit of Gods child. the Holy spirit doesnt abide in a temple of idolatry, lust, greed, violence, jealousy, evil thoughts and ideas, scams and schemes, loophole theology type stuff. the temple has to be cleansed its one of the principles we learn from the Law and tabernacle then the 2 temples in jerusalem. the temple is Holy it has to be. because Jesus is living in us Gos is in Him and they reside in Our Heart. sin and God have no relationship He cant commune with sin Hes Holy. its why He sent Jesus in the flesh of sinful man, so He could go embrace the sinners and express Gods graciousness to us.

sinful people cant even lay an eye on God they will be consumned and die another clear principle in the ot. so for anyone to suggest were not to repent of our sinful ways, and even if we dont were saved eternally Just isnt the truth, it sounds more people friendly, But Not God friendly. even paul who Gets credit so much for this conditionless gog says this in many places and ways

remember now these arent from the Law of moses, but from paul in letters written to the church well after Jesus death and resurrection

Galatians 5:16-21 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. <<< see romans 7 for pauls further explaination of this conflict in us believers)

18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

see also a mirror of this ephesians 5
romans 2:4-11 "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."

obviously these are both clearly dealing with the deeds of the believer, so they do infact decide things in the end. Jesus saves us By teaching us to repent and walk right. thats Our part and is essential. God is the same whether Jew, gentile, male female, black White we all have to walk with a clear conscience, and we cant Hide our conscience from God, and if we hide it from Ourselves were derailing the saving work of the Gospel. dont have to be flawless day One, if we think we are we cant receive Jesus truly anyways gotta Know we Need Him. but there is an actual effect that comes with the Gospel it will change anyones Life if faith is sincere How could real faith NOT Have works? it cant if we have faith without any works we have a 5 letter word we dont get.

good works dont save thats true, but faith and good works are One. and sin is not, never has been or will be acceptable to Our God its what put His Son on the cross and through so much agony. we cant as christians accept sin as okay should feel guilt based on Jesus death for our sins after we come to Him. that is as important as anything because it gives us the heart reason to repent, to set Our minds and Hearts to stop following evil. thats what sin is its the will of satan for man, and righteousness is the Will of God.we belong to who we follow. romans 6


so "works" should be defined and not lumped in with righteousness and sin. as a church christians need to stop judging others for thier sin and start purging Our own Lives in every corner of our hearts. there is no other way we can argue about grace, works, righteousness, repentance ect but disobedience and following the things of satan will lead to hell even for someone Who believes Jesus came and died. its about what we truly believe and that is shown in what we do. gotta walk the walk for Jesus and never give the impression well you know sins not really a biggy anymore. non believers as pf yet need to Hear " Come to Jesus He will accept the worst of you" some years after though we have to move on from " come to Jesus Hell forgive you....to Follow Jesus because you believe and you will receive all the Promises He gave with those things He taught.

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi Stonesoffire,
The questions were; Where does it say in Hebrews Chapter 4 that the 7th Day is no longer God’s Sabbath Day?
Where does it say in Hebrews Chapter 4 that the 7th Day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

Read it again all of Hebrews Chapter 4 it does not say this whatsoever.

I am happy that someone here at least wants to share God’s Word. You have quoted Heb 4:8-11. Let’s look at the whole context of the scriptures in Hebrews 4.

HEB 4
King James Bible
A Sabbath-Rest for God's People
(Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 16:22-36)

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Context: for Heb 4:9-11
· Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)
· The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbeliefit (v2)
· For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
· Speaking of the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
· God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
· Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
· There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
· Those that enter into God’s rest cease from works as God did v10
· We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
· The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest [SUP]4520[/SUP] to the people of God.” (NAS; Heb 4:9)
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)
Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?
The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So as you can see Hebrews 4:1-12are not answering the earlier questions. In fact these scriptures support and talk about God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath those that entered into God’s rest and those that did not. So the questions remain…..

Can anyone show me one bible verse that says that the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?
That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

Hope this helps.

God bless



Hi Friend,

There is no insult inferred all is good . This is the Word of God that I have provided you above. You can see the context above from Hebrews 4 is talking about God's 7th Day Sabbath. It says what it says. There is only one Lord's Day the the bible talks about and it is God's 7th Day Sabbath. Its found here......

Mar 2:28,
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

There is no bible verse that says that the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?
That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

Sunday Worship is a man made tradition and teaching that has not basis in God's Word. Jesus warns us in His Word....

Mat 15:3-9,
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou might be profited by me; And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jesus himself tells us that if we keep the commandments of man over the word of God we break God's commandments and will have to stand before God on the day of Judgment for (1) not believing His Word and (2) breaking His Law. There is not one verse in the entire bible that says we no longer need to keep the 7th Day Sabbath a holy day. The question remains who do we obey God or man?

God bless

First of all, thank you UG

Maybe I can make this one point that I'm trying to make...a little clearer.

I wasn't speaking of Sunday being the Lords day. Many do say that..but I see it differently. John said, I was in the Spirit on the Lords day. Now I do know that one can be ministering in the Spirit, which is ministering in the natural but out of the Spiritual realm. I can't tell you how this is done. Just I know it is. It's something God does.

So the Lords Day in my view, is the day of resurrection power. We are risen with Him are we not? We died with Him and was raised with Him to new life. So the Sabbath day of rest for us is first positionally "in the body of Christ" by our new birth. We too are circumcised on what we can call the 8th Day...for the 8 does mean new beginnings. The 8th day is the Lords day...when our flesh is pierced by the Spirit of Christ and no longer rules our temple. We have a new King, and our ego which ruled before...dies.

Risen with Christ, we live and move out of Spirit. These are the works we do. Not of our own humanity, but of God.

That's as simple as I am going tonight.

Are you born from above? Have you been baptized by Holy Spirit? And are you heading for Tabernacles. Can you see this spiritually and no longer naturally? For we are of His body. He the Head, we His members.

 

[Kirk]

Can a believer become an unbeliever? That's the $64.00 question.

In all my years of discussing OSAS on line I realized the question of OSAS comes down to if a true believer can really stop believing. We know from the scriptures what will happen to the person who stops believing. What we wonder is if the believer can really stop believing.

Are the warnings in the Bible to not stop believing sufficient to keep the true believer from ever becoming a former believer? Or is it possible for the genuine believer to stop believing and that's why God warns us to not stop believing? I'm of the opinion at this point that the true believer can indeed stop believing and be lost. I know a person who had the genuine gift of tongues (signifying the indwelling Holy Spirit) who stopped believing by their own admission, and their life showed it. I also know this person had weak faith right from the beginning, not 'no faith at all' as some explain why a believer falls.

I am under the belief that no one is saved until they are actually saved. So yeah i believe in once saved always saved. After you make it to whatever heaven is, you are saved for eternity. But as long as you are a human on this earth still living, i don't believe you are saved, but in the process of working out your salvation.

 

[Locutus]

Who let the phart in the phorum??

 

[UnderGrace]

Where in the New Testament scripture does it clearly state that going from belief (saved, born again) to unbelief results in eternal damnation.

Not a reference to works but unbelief, I may have missed it.

Can a believer become an unbeliever? That's the $64.00 question.

In all my years of discussing OSAS on line I realized the question of OSAS comes down to if a true believer can really stop believing. We know from the scriptures what will happen to the person who stops believing. What we wonder is if the believer can really stop believing.

Are the warnings in the Bible to not stop believing sufficient to keep the true believer from becoming a former believer? Or is it possible for the genuine believer to stop believing and that's why God warns us to not stop believing? I'm of the opinion at this point that the true believer can indeed stop believing and be lost. I know a person who had the genuine gift of tongues (signifying the indwelling Holy Spirit) who stop believing by their own admission. I also know this person had weak faith right from the beginning, not 'no faith at all' as some explain the former believer.

 

[Sully]

Can a believer become an unbeliever? That's the $64.00 question.

In all my years of discussing OSAS on line I realized the question of OSAS comes down to if a true believer can really stop believing. We know from the scriptures what will happen to the person who stops believing. What we wonder is if the believer can really stop believing.

Are the warnings in the Bible to not stop believing sufficient to keep the true believer from becoming a former believer? Or is it possible for the genuine believer to stop believing and that's why God warns us to not stop believing? I'm of the opinion at this point that the true believer can indeed stop believing and be lost. I know a person who had the genuine gift of tongues (signifying the indwelling Holy Spirit) who stop believing by their own admission. I also know this person had weak faith right from the beginning, not 'no faith at all' as some explain the former believer.

You are talking to full fledged, sold out believers in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, that they should beware that the propensity to "stop believing" in the foundational Truth of our existence is as close as their next thought. Please ask yourself honestly, do you lack faith? Because that my friend is a sure symptom of someone who does imo.

 

[UnderGrace]

Are you asking me personally?

I believe Jesus is my Sabbath rest.

First of all, thank you UG

Maybe I can make this one point that I'm trying to make...a little clearer.

I wasn't speaking of Sunday being the Lords day. Many do say that..but I see it differently. John said, I was in the Spirit on the Lords day. Now I do know that one can be ministering in the Spirit, which is ministering in the natural but out of the Spiritual realm. I can't tell you how this is done. Just I know it is. It's something God does.

So the Lords Day in my view, is the day of resurrection power. We are risen with Him are we not? We died with Him and was raised with Him to new life. So the Sabbath day of rest for us is first positionally "in the body of Christ" by our new birth. We too are circumcised on what we can call the 8th Day...for the 8 does mean new beginnings. The 8th day is the Lords day...when our flesh is pierced by the Spirit of Christ and no longer rules our temple. We have a new King, and our ego which ruled before...dies.

Risen with Christ, we live and move out of Spirit. These are the works we do. Not of our own humanity, but of God.

That's as simple as I am going tonight.

Are you born from above? Have you been baptized by Holy Spirit? And are you heading for Tabernacles. Can you see this spiritually and no longer naturally? For we are of His body. He the Head, we His members.

 

[royalscot]

No, it's a good question.
For the believer, it's not the sin in and of itself that can potentially forfeit salvation for them. It's the sin committed as the result of no longer trusting in the blood of Christ for forgiveness of that sin. Unbelief is what causes one to be cut out of the tree.

Not all sin is the result of unbelief. Believers sin all the time, all the while clinging tenaciously to the precious love and forgiveness of God who covers all their sin caused by weakness and ignorance and even foolishness. It is the sin that is the result of no longer trusting in the blood that God can't reach. Just like God can't reach the sin of the person who never believed (they have to start believing for God to be able to reach it with his love).

As long as the weak, but believing, person continues to believe, ALL his sinning done out of foolishness, stupidity, arrogance, and weakness is covered by Christ....because they are continuing to believe in the sacrifice that covers it. But it is when the believer stops believing in the blood that he no longer has the blood Christ to cover his sinning.

what would you call, a weak reader, what law condemns, you with your sin, and why are you letting the law condemn you.

Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.



1 See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand.12 It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh who would force you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.13 For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.14 But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.Galatians 6

 

[LoveGodForever]

Exactly!!

Hi UG,

Did you get a chance to see post 21050. This is just for you and I was wondering are you going to answer it or no? If no why do you ignore it and do not believe God? Linked above for easy viewing

God bless you all

 

[royalscot]

Hi Limey410v2

How many commandments are in God’s 10 commandments? Seems like you are getting the God's Law mixed up with the laws of Moses that were finished at the cross. These posts may help linked.

Gods Law and the laws of Moses (1)
Gods Law and the laws of Moses (2)

Shadows of things to come (1)
Shadows of things to come (2)
Shadows of things to come (3)

God bless you all

when was the law, given to a christian believer.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Are you asking me personally? I believe Jesus is my Sabbath rest.

Hi UG,

That is a funny statement above. Show me a bible verse that says Jesus is our Sabbath? Or are you making things up now? God's Word teaches the Sabbath is a Day (7th) that Jesus made this day for man and Jesus is the Lord of this day. Now if Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath how can he be Lord of himself? So you should be able to see what your saying is just not biblical. Anyhow this is what God's Word says..

Mar 2:27,
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Mar 2:28,
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

It is one of God's Commandments (Ex 20:8-11)

If we break it than it is breaking God's Law and is sin (1John 3:4)

Hope this helps

God bless you all

 

[TruthTalk]

What are these works saved people do?

Nothing in my hands do I bring only to Thy cross do I cling. Some Christians may only be a small raisin but they humbly serve the church and God takes notice.

 

[PennEd]

Can a believer become an unbeliever? That's the $64.00 question.

In all my years of discussing OSAS on line I realized the question of OSAS comes down to if a true believer can really stop believing. We know from the scriptures what will happen to the person who stops believing. What we wonder is if the believer can really stop believing.

Are the warnings in the Bible to not stop believing sufficient to keep the true believer from ever becoming a former believer? Or is it possible for the genuine believer to stop believing and that's why God warns us to not stop believing? I'm of the opinion at this point that the true believer can indeed stop believing and be lost. I know a person who had the genuine gift of tongues (signifying the indwelling Holy Spirit) who stopped believing by their own admission, and their life showed it. I also know this person had weak faith right from the beginning, not 'no faith at all' as some explain why a believer falls.

This is a complete misunderstanding of who brothers and sisters in Christ are.

WE ARE BORN AGAIN! A NEW creation. We are His Children by birth. Why can't you see that?

How am I no longer going to believe who my Father is? AND, even if were possible for me to no longer believe I am His son, would that change the FACT that I STILL AM HIS SON? By BIRTH!

Aren't YOU His child PHart? Have YOU been born again?

What exactly does this once saved but now lost person unbelieve?

 

[LoveGodForever]

First of all, thank you UG

Maybe I can make this one point that I'm trying to make...a little clearer.

I wasn't speaking of Sunday being the Lords day. Many do say that..but I see it differently. John said, I was in the Spirit on the Lords day. Now I do know that one can be ministering in the Spirit, which is ministering in the natural but out of the Spiritual realm. I can't tell you how this is done. Just I know it is. It's something God does.

So the Lords Day in my view, is the day of resurrection power. We are risen with Him are we not? We died with Him and was raised with Him to new life. So the Sabbath day of rest for us is first positionally "in the body of Christ" by our new birth. We too are circumcised on what we can call the 8th Day...for the 8 does mean new beginnings. The 8th day is the Lords day...when our flesh is pierced by the Spirit of Christ and no longer rules our temple. We have a new King, and our ego which ruled before...dies.

Risen with Christ, we live and move out of Spirit. These are the works we do. Not of our own humanity, but of God.

That's as simple as I am going tonight.

Are you born from above? Have you been baptized by Holy Spirit? And are you heading for Tabernacles. Can you see this spiritually and no longer naturally? For we are of His body. He the Head, we His members.

Hi Stoneoffire,

Thanks for the civil post and sharing your thoughts. I respect your right to your belief. Unfortunately, I do not see it the same way as you. There is only one interpretation of what the "Lords Day" is in the bible and Jesus says it is the 7th Day Sabbath according to the 4th commandment (Matt 2:27-28; Ex 20:8-11). This has its basis in God's Word. What you are proposing above does not. So I must believe the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of man. Sunday worship is a man made tradition and teaching. If I believe God's Word I must follow God over the teachings and traditions of man. Who do we obey God or man (Acts 5:29)? Have a great rest my friend and nice talking to you.

God bless you all

 

[royalscot]

if you cannot, define scripture to stand ,by your faith, if you do not have context, what is your aim or goal , when it is clear with free will, it is your choice to search, the meaning of correct context and definition of scripture.

 

[UnderGrace]

Can anyone show me one bible verse that says that the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

God's 7th Day Sabbath is also the 4th Commandment in God's Law (Ex 20:8-11).
If we break any of God's 10 commandments we are guilty of SIN. All will stand before God on the day of Judgement for the things we have all done in this life.

As Royal Scot has already said when was the law given to the gentiles/Christian believer. ie one who is not a Hebrew. Never!!!

So none of your questions apply to me, I was never under the law before I was saved, I was under my conscience as discussed in Romans, you need to pose those questions to a Law keeper.

You have some theory that the seventh day existed prior to the Law when God rested, and therefore it still is a necessary commandment. Yet you fail to provide one new testament author who states this to be the case.

As far as wilful sin you continue to avoid cultural context. I further expounded on it in post #20904


Here is the condensed version

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]According to Hebrews, even Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) only covered 'sins of ignorance'

'But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance' (Heb 9:7, NIV)

The Old Testament sacrifices did not cover anything beyond 'sins of ignorance'.

"wilful sin" is sin outside of the Leviticus system of atonement

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Hi UG,

Did you get a chance to see post 21050. This is just for you and I was wondering are you going to answer it or no? If no why do you ignore it and do not believe God? Linked above for easy viewing

God bless you all

 

[royalscot]

Hi UG,

That is a funny statement above. Show me a bible verse that says Jesus is our Sabbath? Or are you making things up now? God's Word teaches the Sabbath is a Day (7th) that Jesus made this day for man and Jesus is the Lord of this day. Now if Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath how can he be Lord of himself? So you should be able to see what your saying is just not biblical. Anyhow this is what God's Word says..

Mar 2:27,
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Mar 2:28,
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

It is one of God's Commandments (Ex 20:8-11)

If we break it than it is breaking God's Law and is sin (1John 3:4)

Hope this helps

God bless you all

thats the problem with context, even a child can read , how come you cant, understand this verse, yet claim to know what a sin is.

15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.Hebrews 9

 

[PHart]

I believe the testament of Scripture. Nothing can snatch us from His hands. Nothing can separate us from the love of God. His children hear His voice; He knows us, and we follow Him. Those He predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. That is past tense. What do you make of that?

Yes, past tense. It's already happening here in this life. So we know 'glorified' does not mean the future glorification of our bodes in the eternal kingdom as if it's a done deal that will most certainly happen and can not be stopped.