Not By Works
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I'm not sure how you are arrived at this idea of "But as long as you are a human on this earth still living, i don't believe you are saved, but in the process of working out your salvation."
If this were true then Christians should be the most miserable of all people. And frankly, this is not Bible doctrine at all. Perhaps you are not clear on (a) what Christ actually accomplished in His death, burial, and resurrection, (b) justification by grace through faith (and not by works of righteousness which we have done), (c) the New Birth (regeneration and what it means), (d) sanctification by the presence and the power of the Holy Spirit. Then you say "whatever heaven is" as though we have no revelation in the Bible as to what it is and its significance.
So when is a person saved? The answer is found in many places, but let's just take one example (Acts 16: 27-34)
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
So was this "keeper of the prison" saved and baptized that night? How did he get saved? Is this also how everyone else is saved and knows that they are saved the moment they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? This incident does not exclude repentance simply because it is not mentioned, but it does include justification by grace through faith. The Bible says that Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for righteousness. This man and his household believed God and it was imputed to them for righteousness. That's how simple it is.
If this were true then Christians should be the most miserable of all people. And frankly, this is not Bible doctrine at all. Perhaps you are not clear on (a) what Christ actually accomplished in His death, burial, and resurrection, (b) justification by grace through faith (and not by works of righteousness which we have done), (c) the New Birth (regeneration and what it means), (d) sanctification by the presence and the power of the Holy Spirit. Then you say "whatever heaven is" as though we have no revelation in the Bible as to what it is and its significance.
So when is a person saved? The answer is found in many places, but let's just take one example (Acts 16: 27-34)
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
So was this "keeper of the prison" saved and baptized that night? How did he get saved? Is this also how everyone else is saved and knows that they are saved the moment they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? This incident does not exclude repentance simply because it is not mentioned, but it does include justification by grace through faith. The Bible says that Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for righteousness. This man and his household believed God and it was imputed to them for righteousness. That's how simple it is.
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the problem with this game, it is controlled by god, why would they write, in john 3.16,
you have to believe, in a god through jesus christ. it never said, believe in a god firstly, strange fact, to be grasped .
for example.
usa was not discovered, until around 1610 ad, the bible went to print around 1300- 1500ad, so parts of the world and universe was not discovered yet.
how many people could read, at this point in history.
funny thing about searching all ways , the truth is before your eyes if read in context. etc
you have to believe, in a god through jesus christ. it never said, believe in a god firstly, strange fact, to be grasped .
for example.
usa was not discovered, until around 1610 ad, the bible went to print around 1300- 1500ad, so parts of the world and universe was not discovered yet.
how many people could read, at this point in history.
funny thing about searching all ways , the truth is before your eyes if read in context. etc
U
Yes indeed let us talk scripture.
So then the question is not what does it mean to be under the law but who is under the law, several of us keep asking but somehow we have not received an answer.
Did you want to talk scripture now? What ones would you like to talk about? Ok let's start with what you have just said above? What does it mean to be "Under the Law"?
God bless
God bless
Originally Posted by UnderGrace
Okay then well I guess that takes of that, I guess you have no answer to the fact that the gentile was and is not under the law? I agree, that is why I am not following your teaching (teaching of man) because it does not line up with the scripture.
Well let's talk scripture. What does it mean to be "Under the Law"? So we can see if the "Gentiles are under the law" Here let me help you out ....
So what does it actually mean to be “Under the Law” and what does God’s Word say?
Rom 2:12-13
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Rom 2:12-13)
Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15
What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
To be “Under the Law” means to be convicted of sin, to be guilty before God as a sinner. The sinner is under the Law because he has broken the Law and is guilty of breaking the God’s Law. This applies to both Jews and Gentiles believers because without God's Law is no knowledge of Sin
Hope this help
God Bless
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P
Where in the New Testament scripture does it clearly state that going from belief (saved, born again) to unbelief results in eternal damnation.
Not a reference to works but unbelief, I may have missed it.
Not a reference to works but unbelief, I may have missed it.
Paul says these Corinthians really did believe and are standing in the gospel he preached to them. In fact, that what's the 'if' signifies. It's like telling a strong man, "if you lift this heavy rock...". And Paul says to these believing Corinthians that they are presently saved if (because) they are holding fast the word they first heard and received. But of course this is not true if their believing is in vain and Christ is not really risen from the dead.
From this passage can you firmly assert that the person who is NOT holding fast the word they first heard and received is saved too? No, of course not. Their continuing believing signifies their continuing salvation. Their continuing salvation is contingent on their continued believing. If they are not continuing to believe they are not continuing to be saved.
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(for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles),
Galatians 2
if there is two different converts to the christian belief system, then who thinks, they are still under law, etc
and since acts 15 and 70 ad are in place. you have a hard job ,trying to convince your free will , what freedom means.
Galatians 2
if there is two different converts to the christian belief system, then who thinks, they are still under law, etc
and since acts 15 and 70 ad are in place. you have a hard job ,trying to convince your free will , what freedom means.
Nope did not miss those scriptures at all and they do not contradict the scriptures already posted. That is talking about works versus the Law written on the heart (New Covenant). The Chapter is describing the place of the God's Law in righteousness by faith v 15
My point is that as you have wrongly assumed the Gentiles were not "Under the Law". God's Word says that both Jews and Gentiles are "under the law" because the Law convicts us of sin and that we are all sinners and guilty before God (previous post 21126). It is our schoolmaster that brings us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. It may be time to rethink what you believe about God's Word don't you think?
Hope that is helpful
God bless.
v 15My point is that as you have wrongly assumed the Gentiles were not "Under the Law". God's Word says that both Jews and Gentiles are "under the law" because the Law convicts us of sin and that we are all sinners and guilty before God (previous post 21126). It is our schoolmaster that brings us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. It may be time to rethink what you believe about God's Word don't you think?
Hope that is helpful
God bless.
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U
The law can convict of sin, because the knowledge of the Law will do that , however, that does not meant that GOD who makes the rules judged the gentile by the law.
Nope did not miss those scriptures at all and they do not contradict the scriptures already posted. That is talking about works versus the Law written on the heart (New Covenant) and not the works of the Law. The Chapter is describing the place of the God's Law in righteousness by faith v 15
My point is that as you have wrongly assumed the the Gentiles were not "Under the Law". God's Word says that both Jews and Gentiles are "under the law" because the Law convicts us of sin and that we are all sinners and guilty before God (previous post 21126). It is our schoolmaster that brings us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
Hope that is helpful
God bless.
v 15My point is that as you have wrongly assumed the the Gentiles were not "Under the Law". God's Word says that both Jews and Gentiles are "under the law" because the Law convicts us of sin and that we are all sinners and guilty before God (previous post 21126). It is our schoolmaster that brings us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
Hope that is helpful
God bless.
Hi sonesoffire,
Nice to talk to you again. Good questions, These scriptures Paul is talking about the ceremonial laws v14 and the annual feast days which were held on new moons (any day of the week the feast days fell on) and food and drink offerings which were all shadows pointing to Jesus. You can read all about them in the books of Leviticus (23) and Deuteronomy.
Scripture support linked below;
Col 2 Shadows of things to come (1)
Col 2 Shadows of things to come (2)
Col 2 Shadows of things to come (3)
God bless
Nice to talk to you again. Good questions, These scriptures Paul is talking about the ceremonial laws v14 and the annual feast days which were held on new moons (any day of the week the feast days fell on) and food and drink offerings which were all shadows pointing to Jesus. You can read all about them in the books of Leviticus (23) and Deuteronomy.
Scripture support linked below;
Col 2 Shadows of things to come (1)
Col 2 Shadows of things to come (2)
Col 2 Shadows of things to come (3)
God bless