About Judaizing

[JaumeJ]

There are so many pharisees of today posing as scholars of just about everything. Many will say all we need in order to obey the law is to love, and this is true, if those who convey this message would only do and not just say this very important truth.

Another thing said is that all we need is to live Christ crucified for our sins, and this too is true, and when practiced in sincerity, of course this is all we need.

However since Yeshua ascended tot he Right Han of Power, and even before, people have worked to distort His teachings, and they have paganized just about all who believe with notions Jesus would never have taught.

You think you know what Judaizing is and you think you fight it by paganizing. So deaf and blind are you, hypocrites.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Actually a common trait at the time was to write and speak history (past tense) in the present tense to give the prose or speech more immediacy.

Thank you gNp. When I read Acts 28 it seems clear that Paul was still a law keeper

God bless friend

 

[JaumeJ]

When the Word reached Rome and Greece those were pagan nations, and those who believed first came to the faith of Abraham.

Now because there are manuscripts in Greek, many, most who call themselves Christian, have acquiesed to a general perversion of the history of our faith with no mention of Abraham, no mention of the Prophets or teh writings, and especially no mention of the Books of Moses, the Torah.

Does anyone else see the abject convulsing of the way things were are and should always be?

If people would but recognize that our Savior is of the faith of Abraham, of Israel, and of the Tribe of Judah, this would be a giant step twoards clearing up this so-called judaizing witch-hunt cum inquisition.

 

[loveme1]

When the Word reached Rome and Greece those were pagan nations, and those who believed first came to the faith of Abraham.

Now because there are manuscripts in Greek, many, most who call themselves Christian, have acquiesed to a general perversion of the history of our faith with no mention of Abraham, no mention of the Prophets or teh writings, and especially no mention of the Books of Moses, the Torah.

Does anyone else see the abject convulsing of the way things were are and should always be?

If people would but recognize that our Savior is of the faith of Abraham, of Israel, and of the Tribe of Judah, this would be a giant step twoards clearing up this so-called judaizing witch-hunt cum inquisition.

True.... knowing that those things came to pass for the Messiah to come and Redeem those that believe... Knowing that the New is better but the Old was important in due season for an Everlasting Covenant. Is the promise not the Messiah? Is it not Faith that always was desired?

Only the Holy Spirit Baptism allowing us to overcome the desire of the flesh? Where is the sting of death now that He overcame...

I think we should beware and hold fast but not to hate those branches that remain in unbelief... for they being natural will be grafted in by GoD when they also believe.

 

[Grandpa]

the real ones who are 'entangled' are those who refuse to 'obey' their Creator and
choose to obey themselves/the world instead...

the real 'entangled, are actually teaching 'dis-obedience'...

lots of prayer going-out here...

I totally agree.

 

[Grandpa]

This will be an interesting conversation for you to have if we were Jewish because the Jews will not even read the New Testament

A few years ago a rabbi and an catholic priest were invited to a local television station to debate if Jesus Christ was born from a virgin. Now the catholic priest was armed with verses from the New Testament and Isaiah 7:14 and while he had the floor he was passionate about all the New Testament verses. The Jewish rabbi did not say anything and when it was his turn to speak he just said to the priest I don't believe in your New Testament so lets discuss the Old Testament. The priest was floored because had no come backs and argument for argument, verse for verse the rabbi had the upper hand. You see one thing the Jews are good at is knowledge, but they lack Jesus. We have Jesus but we lack knowledge.

Will you brother Grandpa be able to discuss Jesus with somebody not believing in the New Testament? You see the guy that are so miss quoted on many platforms did it. Paul kept the law and he could argue with the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah from the Old Testament. I wonder how many of Paul's followers will be able to the same today?

God bless friends

Acts 24:14 [FONT=&quot]But this I confess unto thee, that [/FONT][FONT=&quot]after the way which they call heresy[/FONT][FONT=&quot], so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

[/FONT]No longer working at the law doesn't mean we don't keep the law. It just means we don't keep it by our own understanding and our own strength.

So when someone says you have to rest on saturdays like the law says, they are going back to an OT, works based, mis-understanding of the Spiritual Law.

When someone says we Rest in Christ, the way in which they would call heresy, they are keeping the whole law by being the workmanship of God, through His Holy Spirit and not through a carnal understanding of a carnal law.

 

[Grace777x70]

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

No longer working at the law doesn't mean we don't keep the law. It just means we don't keep it by our own understanding and our own strength.

So when someone says you have to rest on saturdays like the law says, they are going back to an OT, works based, mis-understanding of the Spiritual Law.

When someone says we Rest in Christ, the way in which they would call heresy, they are keeping the whole law by being the workmanship of God, through His Holy Spirit and not through a carnal understanding of a carnal law.

Well said Grandpa! ( It says I must spread it around before I can give you a rep )

That is the whole essence of law and grace. The law of Christ Himself living in and through us does keep the whole intent of the law - just not in "the way" of the Old Covenant.

Jesus said that all the law and the prophets speak of Christ Himself - which is why Paul was able to say - " believing all things that are written in the law and the prophets."

Law-keepers mis-apply this to mean that Paul kept the law of Moses in it's original state - which is in a carnal ( of the flesh way ) keeping of it.

This of course is totally false because Paul said to the Galatians that if they get circumcised as the law states they should - then Christ will become of no effect to them and they have fallen from grace. Gal. 5:2-4

( As a good Jew - I'm sure Paul kept some of his old ways of living too but he certainly didn't put gentile Christians under his Jewish cultural traditions and demand that they follow it or they are sinning and dis-obeying God as some Sabbath keepers try to put on other Christians )

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

No longer working at the law doesn't mean we don't keep the law. It just means we don't keep it by our own understanding and our own strength.

So when someone says you have to rest on saturdays like the law says, they are going back to an OT, works based, mis-understanding of the Spiritual Law.

When someone says we Rest in Christ, the way in which they would call heresy, they are keeping the whole law by being the workmanship of God, through His Holy Spirit and not through a carnal understanding of a carnal law.

Thank you Grandpa. I also highlighted the part you keep on ignoring. We don't want to read only part of the word now, do we?

Grace I gave him the rep for you

 

[JaumeJ]

The following is teaching that is totally gnored by the grace-only faction who label obedience as being judaized.

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore girding up the loins of your mind, be sober and set your hope perfectly on the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1Pe 1:14 as children of obedience, not fashioning yourselves according to your former lusts in the time of your ignorance:

1Pe 1:15 but like as he who called you is holy, be ye yourselves also holy in all manner of living;

1Pe 1:16 because it is written, Ye shall be holy; for I am holy.

 

[followjesus]

There are so many pharisees of today posing as scholars of just about everything. Many will say all we need in order to obey the law is to love, and this is true, if those who convey this message would only do and not just say this very important truth.

Another thing said is that all we need is to live Christ crucified for our sins, and this too is true, and when practiced in sincerity, of course this is all we need.

However since Yeshua ascended tot he Right Han of Power, and even before, people have worked to distort His teachings, and they have paganized just about all who believe with notions Jesus would never have taught.

You think you know what Judaizing is and you think you fight it by paganizing. So deaf and blind are you, hypocrites.

truly the distorters of the Gospel given By Jesus Christ, are why the judaizers were wrong. while the distorters of today have went the other way they arent judaizing the gospel, they are teaching that the Gospel is some new version 2 of the Law therefore its irrelevant to us because were "dead to the law" anyone who will not believe the word of Jesus Christ on any matter and take that as the authority over any christian, infact the authority of the entirety of Heaven and earth, has missed it.

the gog has gone the other way from judaizers, claiming the opposite end of the spectrum, that the gospel really isny the gospel when you really look into what they are saying, no need to follow the Law, no need to follow the Gospel, Just only believe Jesus died for you. another thing thats essential and what Need, is the words teachings and commands of Jesus along with His death and resurrection and His ascention. thats all we need But His words spoken before His sacrifice, those arent something we can live without, just as much as the knowledge that He died and rose and ascended and Lives as our advocate now and the One mediator , the High priest.

the cross is the start of the war its our suit of armor, our shield of faith, Our battle plan though, that is found in the words of Jesus. its all relevant all important and all true all necassary. with that said were accountable for what we learn not what another person has learned. we grow, and so does our role in the battle the more we grow in understanding the more we act upon that understanding. notice this that paul wrote about the spirit and the flesh and remember that He is writing it to the church after He has explained about being baptized into Jesus death, being dead to the moisaic Law, and being made new ect.

romans 8:That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.Control by the Spirit
(Galatians 5:16-26)9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."

see how paul is talking to the " brethren? and How recieving the spirit isnt the victory but minding the spirit, following the spirit being led by the spirit is where victory comes in, Notice How hes speaking straight to the church explaining we are debtors not to the flesh but to the spirit, for to mind the flesh is death but if you kill the deeds of the flesh you will live?

when we receive the spirit it is the power to overcome, the way to overcome is to follow that spirit, and that spirit will always refer to Jesus teachings and commands His words, everything He taught in the gospel. when we receive the spirit its the start of an inner war we can follow the flesh spirit of adam, or the spirit of God that comes from Jesus. Notice the conflict

galatians 5:16-21 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

again this is no different from the first quote there Paul istalking to people who have received the spirit, yet He is still explaining and warning that we have to repent and if we live in the ways of the flesh described there, we do not have any inheritance in Gods Kingdom of eternal Life. receiving the spirit is the power to be children of God, to be children of God and find security we have the duty as debtors to Christ, to put those old things of sin to death in our life, just another way to say " repent of our sins" or another way to say it is to stop commiting those things we know are sinful as we are taught, we repent as we grow in undrstanding, more repentance comes to our duty. its the beginning of the war for our Lives, were equipped for victory, but to deny our place in the battle being equipped and refuse to go to war with the flesh by following the battle cry of the spirit, well be left dead on the battle field. Jesus crucified is essential but so is all the rest. Jesus words have every bit of importance because He shed His blood and rose again. just like were taught about the armor of God and guarding against the enemies attacks. were told of our equipment for the war for a reason, were warned of the devil who goes about like a roaring Lion looking to devour whoever he can for a reason were warned again and again for a reason, because were in a battle for life and death.

 

[Grace777x70]

The following is teaching that is totally gnored by the grace-only faction who label obedience as being judaized.

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore girding up the loins of your mind, be sober and set your hope perfectly on the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1Pe 1:14 as children of obedience, not fashioning yourselves according to your former lusts in the time of your ignorance:

1Pe 1:15 but like as he who called you is holy, be ye yourselves also holy in all manner of living;

1Pe 1:16 because it is written, Ye shall be holy; for I am holy.

That's nonsense. I have never heard anyone say that they are not to be obedient to the Lord.

To some who think we need to follow the law or do works to keep us saved - I can see where they would deceitfully say this.

I have posted this many times in response to the continued lies concerning what believers in the grace of God in Christ's finished works actually 'do" believe.


I believe it is the accurate hearing of Christ Himself and what He has already done by His grace and love that brings true faith which has as it's own fruit - obedience - which is to believe.

Right believing in what Christ has already done releases His empowering grace within us to live godly in this present world.

Some get that disobedience is not obeying because of some translations which says..

Hebrews 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

This word for "disobedience" is really "unbelief" in Greek in Hebrews 4:6. To not believe in the finished work of Christ for living and salvation is in fact disobedience.

That's why the gospel is often called "the obedience of faith". Even good moral living law-keeping Jewish priests came to be "obedient to the faith."

Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have also posted this over 12x times on CC about "obedience".

Legalism - in the biblical sense of the word - is any attitude or belief that human merit can produce, prove, or preserve for one-self an acceptable standing before God.

Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather then upon the "promises" of God that are Yes and Amen in Christ - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace to rely on our own self-effort so grace does not flow to us.

Obedience in the New Covenant:

In loving God and others as Jesus says is the greatest commandment in the law in relation to obedience.

Obedience to me is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root.

It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.

It is not necessarily something "we do to be" but stems from something we "already are now" in Him and so we "do love" as we grow in our awareness of His love for us.

We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules that we follow, but a natural flow of the life of God in us built on a love-trust relationship.

When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly because of the life of Christ that is in us.

When our minds are renewed to the truth that is in Christ - we obey from our hearts effortlessly. It's a fruit of being in Christ.

I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us to reflect the true kingdom of the love and grace of God to a hurt and dying world.

Teach and preach who believers are in Christ because we are in union in one spirit with the Lord Jesus and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.

 

[JaumeJ]

When grace-only folks tell me when I pass on that we are to be obedient children of God that I am under the law, what else can anyone deduce from this?

Nonsense is your rmbling cuts and pastes having nothing to do whith what you feign to be responding to.

 

[mailmandan]

When grace-only folks tell me when I pass on that we are to be obedient children of God that I am under the law, what else can anyone deduce from this?

Nonsense is your rmbling cuts and pastes having nothing to do whith what you feign to be responding to.

Could be that it's your endless ramblings that are nonsense. *If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your EXACT answer? "Lord, Lord, I'm not like these grace only folks. I was consistently obedient to you?"

 

[loveme1]

Could be that it's your endless ramblings that are nonsense. *If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your EXACT answer? "Lord, Lord, I'm not like these grace only folks. I was consistently obedient to you?"

Then what would the Lord say to Jaumej?

 

[mailmandan]

Then what would the Lord say to Jaumej?

Here is what the Lord will say to MANY people on that day who are seeking salvation based on the merits of their so called obedience/works (Matthew 7:22-23). The real question is, "what is JaumeJ truly TRUSTING in for salvation?" I'll await his answer to my question.

 

[loveme1]

Here is what the Lord will say to MANY people on that day who are seeking salvation based on the merits of their so called obedience/works (Matthew 7:22-23). The real question is, "what is JaumeJ truly TRUSTING in for salvation?" I'll await his answer to my question.

Can I just share something with you:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Now because Jaumej is believing His Lord by hearing and doing.. you think by His own merit seeks to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Are you sure?

 

[Grace777x70]

Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world

Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:


It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[loveme1]

Thank GOD that Heavenly Father is Gracious and Merciful.

 

[loveme1]

Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world

Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:


It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

So those people that called Him lord and did marvellous things did not believe in Him yet called Him Lord?

Once again you are creating a Testimony from verses stitched together.. which are True and good verses when one is built up on good foundation.