Not By Works
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Here is another post that speaks of the Lord will reveal Himself and that we are praying for him. The denying of some people that Jesus is God come in the flesh is well documented here in CC.
Some people's post I treat the same way as I do the porn ads that pop up on my screen from time to time.
I don't interact with known slanders of others in the body of Christ just like Paul says to do in 1 Cor. 5:11.
I also take this advice from Paul.
Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Because unfortunately they are caught in this.
Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
Some people's post I treat the same way as I do the porn ads that pop up on my screen from time to time.
I don't interact with known slanders of others in the body of Christ just like Paul says to do in 1 Cor. 5:11.
I also take this advice from Paul.
Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Because unfortunately they are caught in this.
Hebrews 12:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
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Bruce...what you are describing is actually just legalizing....Legalism and Judiazing are 2 very different things..
Judaizing is very different...this happens when a gentile that is saved by grace through faith, actually conforms/converts and performs the ceremonial feasts,laws and edicts of Moses and the law in order to be saved and stay saved. Theya re usually converted through another Gentile or Messianic Jews who still hold on the law as a means to stay saved and be saved in addition to the terms of the new covenant...
Simply put, Judaizing means you add any part of the Law of Moses with the New Convent in order to be saved or stay saved....
I dislike naming names but one public Christian who is the closest to this heresy is Paula White. She is being influenced by several very low profile,yet notable Judaizer messianic Jews....
Judaizing is very different...this happens when a gentile that is saved by grace through faith, actually conforms/converts and performs the ceremonial feasts,laws and edicts of Moses and the law in order to be saved and stay saved. Theya re usually converted through another Gentile or Messianic Jews who still hold on the law as a means to stay saved and be saved in addition to the terms of the new covenant...
Simply put, Judaizing means you add any part of the Law of Moses with the New Convent in order to be saved or stay saved....
I dislike naming names but one public Christian who is the closest to this heresy is Paula White. She is being influenced by several very low profile,yet notable Judaizer messianic Jews....
Romans 13.8-10 answers this for us:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Yes, the New Covenant does include the Ten Commandments, but they are not written on stone but in the hearts of those who have been converted. Please note (and this is stated in the New Testament (which also means New Covenant):
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (Hebrews 10:15-17).
So what was nailed to the cross is OUR MULTIPLE VIOLATIONS and transgression of these Ten Commandments. Christ was made Sin for us and all our iniquities were laid on Him.
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (Hebrews 10:15-17).
So what was nailed to the cross is OUR MULTIPLE VIOLATIONS and transgression of these Ten Commandments. Christ was made Sin for us and all our iniquities were laid on Him.
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Authority
Who holds the highest authority?
The Father.
The son who did what the Father showed Him.
The Holy Spirit who teaches us what the other two are telling us.
Ideas can take us captive. Some call it lenses.
The only lens we can use is other verses that bring balance to the issue we
are grappling with. If there are a few things that are essential what are they?
The nature of God and communion with Him
The nature of man, where sin takes him captive and how the cross frees him.
Jesus and the law. Salvation, forgiveness and walking like Jesus.
There is truly one true solution, and God keeps it, it is the secret that Paul talked
about.
But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory.
1 Cor 2:7
Even in Pauls day people disputed what it meant and how it worked.
Jesus says simply this
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
Matt 7:14
It is easy to miss a few words, an emphasis here and their and go off on the wrong tangent,
or excuse something that should not be excused because it appeases ones conscience.
The arguments we are having here are as old as the church, so without new information or a
change of heart things will not budge.
A simple example of this is Luther and grace. He always preached law which is given and implemented
in Christ by grace. But many think Luther is just a grace man.
Who holds the highest authority?
The Father.
The son who did what the Father showed Him.
The Holy Spirit who teaches us what the other two are telling us.
Ideas can take us captive. Some call it lenses.
The only lens we can use is other verses that bring balance to the issue we
are grappling with. If there are a few things that are essential what are they?
The nature of God and communion with Him
The nature of man, where sin takes him captive and how the cross frees him.
Jesus and the law. Salvation, forgiveness and walking like Jesus.
There is truly one true solution, and God keeps it, it is the secret that Paul talked
about.
But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory.
1 Cor 2:7
Even in Pauls day people disputed what it meant and how it worked.
Jesus says simply this
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
Matt 7:14
It is easy to miss a few words, an emphasis here and their and go off on the wrong tangent,
or excuse something that should not be excused because it appeases ones conscience.
The arguments we are having here are as old as the church, so without new information or a
change of heart things will not budge.
A simple example of this is Luther and grace. He always preached law which is given and implemented
in Christ by grace. But many think Luther is just a grace man.
there are types and shadows of Christ all over the old testament we know that from the book of hebrews..... but if u deny the bible is a list of things to do or not to do, you just deny reality, u cant make it past the first few pages without a commandment.............
this is on the same level as hate the sin love the sinner which is a quote from gandhi not the bible lol yet its spouted by christians daily all over the world........ then u have the nothing that enters a man defiles him and all things are lawful taken out of context that isaachar already exposed earlier in this thread and got heat for it because it doesnt fit with the preconceived ideas........
i get it u can get a lot of likes on your post here for posting the christian catchphrases and correcting the works-salvation heretics round and round we go, but at the end both are pretty much teaching the same thing just worded differently........ someone like paul washer denies teaching works salvation and he plays the word game of its by faith alone but faith is not alone it produces works well thats just the same story in reverse either way u got works and repentance............ im tired of playing games lets get to the issue: WHAT WORKS ARE BEING REFERRED TO IN EPHESIANS 2:8-9??? lets not make it contradict all of the bible this one verse pls
this is on the same level as hate the sin love the sinner which is a quote from gandhi not the bible lol yet its spouted by christians daily all over the world........ then u have the nothing that enters a man defiles him and all things are lawful taken out of context that isaachar already exposed earlier in this thread and got heat for it because it doesnt fit with the preconceived ideas........
i get it u can get a lot of likes on your post here for posting the christian catchphrases and correcting the works-salvation heretics round and round we go, but at the end both are pretty much teaching the same thing just worded differently........ someone like paul washer denies teaching works salvation and he plays the word game of its by faith alone but faith is not alone it produces works well thats just the same story in reverse either way u got works and repentance............ im tired of playing games lets get to the issue: WHAT WORKS ARE BEING REFERRED TO IN EPHESIANS 2:8-9??? lets not make it contradict all of the bible this one verse pls
Sure.........a prime example....the children of Israel...struck the blood, were delivered from Egypt, taken straight to the promise land of REST and were to allowed to enter because they did not BELIEVE they could take the land.....this did not change the fact that they were chosen of God, provided for in the wilderness by God, taught and led of GOD in the wilderness and the whole point is they failed to enter into the rest afforded a believer in this life by faith.....
LOST means LOST and NO faith
Saved have faith in JESUS all the time yet sometimes due to ignorance, a lack of maturity, solid teaching are unbelieving when it comes to particular doctrines and or teaching that is found in the word...this does not alleviate or change their status as one who has been saved and delivered from "EGYPT" <--sin and the bondage of sin
LOST means LOST and NO faith
Saved have faith in JESUS all the time yet sometimes due to ignorance, a lack of maturity, solid teaching are unbelieving when it comes to particular doctrines and or teaching that is found in the word...this does not alleviate or change their status as one who has been saved and delivered from "EGYPT" <--sin and the bondage of sin
Judaizers are those that try to get people to go back to the law for life and living and if you don't do it - then you are not righteous.
One of the tools is " If you don't keep the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way - you are sinning and dis-obeying God."
And those that say we are to do works in order to stay saved are in the exact same boat spiritually as the Judaizers.
They are trying to be like God without God Himself. In other words they in essence reject the gospel of the grace of God for their own self-righteousness by what they do or don't do.
That is part of the original "lie" of the enemy in the garden. He seduced Eve into wanting to be like God and she could do this independently of God if "she only did this one thing". This is the start of the works-based religion.
Satan is the father of lies and he told a few lies in the garden just like he does today.
To me the apostate pastors of today and of yesteryear are those that try to seduce God's beloved children that He deeply loves - and that He sent the Lord Jesus Christ to die for and has obtained an eternal redemption for them by His blood - to now tell them that He is going to send them into hell and the lake of fire.
That is what makes the Judaizer and the works-based salvationists in the same spiritual heap of a ship-wrecked faith in Christ alone - they both commit spiritual adultery on the Lord and try to teach others to do the same thing.
One of the tools is " If you don't keep the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament way - you are sinning and dis-obeying God."
And those that say we are to do works in order to stay saved are in the exact same boat spiritually as the Judaizers.
They are trying to be like God without God Himself. In other words they in essence reject the gospel of the grace of God for their own self-righteousness by what they do or don't do.
That is part of the original "lie" of the enemy in the garden. He seduced Eve into wanting to be like God and she could do this independently of God if "she only did this one thing". This is the start of the works-based religion.
Satan is the father of lies and he told a few lies in the garden just like he does today.
To me the apostate pastors of today and of yesteryear are those that try to seduce God's beloved children that He deeply loves - and that He sent the Lord Jesus Christ to die for and has obtained an eternal redemption for them by His blood - to now tell them that He is going to send them into hell and the lake of fire.
That is what makes the Judaizer and the works-based salvationists in the same spiritual heap of a ship-wrecked faith in Christ alone - they both commit spiritual adultery on the Lord and try to teach others to do the same thing.
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That is what I have been talking about
The works of the flesh will bring destruction of some sort in this life which is why we are to walk by the spirit so that we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires. I have posted about this many times.
Doing a work of the flesh will not send you to hell as is falsely told by some works-based salvationists try to tell people.
You will however not experience the inheritance of the life that are ours in the kingdom of God while on this earth and you will die - in some cases quite quickly too.
Take up shooting heroin in your arms and we will see this manifested quickly.
Take worrying - that is a sin because it is unbelief that God will look after us. If we worry - we will not experience the peace of God what is ours in the kingdom now. Does God now send His children to hell because they died while worrying?
What if someone has "outbursts of anger" from time to time which is in the exact same lists as adultery is. They have an outburst of anger - then they die - does God now send them to hell?
Of course not and yet that is what these apostate pastors tell the body of Christ. They are the real wolves that beat and tear at the sheep of the Lord.
I am amazed at how many of us do not know the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. If we would teach people how to walk by the spirit - who they are in Christ because of what He has done - then they will have the proper nutrients to walk free of sin and bear fruit unto God as His life is manifested to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace of our loving Father and Lord to them.
Doing a work of the flesh will not send you to hell as is falsely told by some works-based salvationists try to tell people.
You will however not experience the inheritance of the life that are ours in the kingdom of God while on this earth and you will die - in some cases quite quickly too.
Take up shooting heroin in your arms and we will see this manifested quickly.
Take worrying - that is a sin because it is unbelief that God will look after us. If we worry - we will not experience the peace of God what is ours in the kingdom now. Does God now send His children to hell because they died while worrying?
What if someone has "outbursts of anger" from time to time which is in the exact same lists as adultery is. They have an outburst of anger - then they die - does God now send them to hell?
Of course not and yet that is what these apostate pastors tell the body of Christ. They are the real wolves that beat and tear at the sheep of the Lord.
I am amazed at how many of us do not know the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. If we would teach people how to walk by the spirit - who they are in Christ because of what He has done - then they will have the proper nutrients to walk free of sin and bear fruit unto God as His life is manifested to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace of our loving Father and Lord to them.