Not By Works

[Stephen63]

What is interesting is looking at what Luther and Calvin thought of imputed righteousness.

For me the issue is simple. Christ is our righteous example, through whom we are washed clean,
purified and redeemed so we can walk righteously. It appears both Calvin and Luther could not
accept a righteous walk was possible so have varying theories as to how righteousness is imputed
to us.

My issue is simple, if faith is all that differentiates between sinner and saint, how can God tell
whether the words are real or just window dressing? Surely the whole value of faith is its
effect on ones life, or else it is all vanity, a show for the stage, to appear one thing while being
another, the hypocracy of the self-righteous and powerful, who appear one way and behave
another.

Interestingly the mystical union with Christ and the righteousness this implies is used by some
to imply that is how imputation works, like an infusion. It appears RCC follow a sacramental
infusion concept which over time brings the believer to a righteous walk.

It is something that there appears to be no true camp, but lots of shades of grey, lol

Those "shades of grey" are there on purpose to keep their opponents looking foolish.

First, they say there's no more repentance after acceptance of Christ, then outta the other side of their mouth they say they repent all the time.

They say there's no conviction after acceptance, then talk about it like we can't do without it.

This is purposely done to give them an edge, & to keep the reader confused about what they really believe. They don't want them to know.

They also say they're immediately made perfect, then say they're going on to perfection.

Since they claim there's no conviction & repentance afterward, They have no leg to stand on to explain spiritual growth, since it requires both.

Since they can't explain it, they will pass over it to accuse & blame, a tactic of their wickedness.

 

[Ariel82]

Luther taught that folks should live righteously.

He taught foreign imputed righteousness of Christ is needed for people to develop proper personal righteousness.

I haven't read Calvin so don't know what he teaches but to say that Luther doesn't teach that folks should live righteously is a lie.

Martin Luther: Two Kinds of Righteousness

[1] There are two kinds of Christian righteousness, just as man’s sin is of two kinds. The first is alien righteousness, that is the righteousness of another, instilled from without. This is the righteousness of Christ by which he justifies though faith, as it is written in I Cor. 1:30: “whom God made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.
******
The second kind of righteousness is our proper righteousness, not because we alone work it, but because we work with that first and alien righteousness. This is that manner of life spent profitably in good works, in the first place, in slaying the flesh and crucifying the desires with respect to the self, of which we read in Gal. 5:24, “And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.” In the second place, this righteousness consists in love to one’s neighbor, and in the third place, in meekness and fear towards God. The Apostle is full of references to these, as is all the rest of Scripture. He briefly summarizes everything, however, in Titus 2:12, “ In this world let us live soberly (pertaining to crucifying one’s own flesh), justly (referring to one’s neighbor), and devoutly (relating to God).”
[7] This righteousness is the product of the righteousness of the first type, actually its fruit and consequence, for we read in Gal. 5:22, “But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

 

[Grace777x70]

Going back to the Law for living after coming to Christ is committing spiritual adultery on our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Cor 3:14-18 is saying that to this day people that read Moses - there is a veil that covers their eyes and they can't see the real substance which is Christ.

The Law is a mere shadow of the real thing. When we turn to the Lord - the veil is lifted and we can now behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror and the Hoy Spirit transforms us. - not the keeping of Moses's law.

Going back to the Law for life and transformation is committing spiritual adultery on the Lord. Romans 7:1-6 - we have died to the Law so that we could be joined to another - our Lord Jesus.

Going back to the Law after coming to Christ is like a husband looking at the pictures that his wife sent to him before they were married - but now he is married to his wife and she wants him to be with "her" now - not him looking at her pictures.

The Law was merely a picture, a type of the reality which is Christ and He is in us now and we are to be led by the Holy Spirit because we are now children of God.

Don't let anyone try to pervert the gospel of the grace of Christ. Paul had his Judaizers come in after he preached the gospel to try to get people to go now and follow the Law.

He had some very strong words to say about these types. These Judaizers are around in this day and age too.

You will be able to recognize them when they say "Do you believe the word of God? Do you love Jesus? Why don't you believe the word of God?"

This is all "code" for spiritual manipulating you because what they really mean is "IF you don't follow the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament way - you are sinning and dis-obeying God."

It is a bunch of religious nonsense that is really just a manifestation of the work of the flesh called witchcraft - which is the mixing of things together to get a desired result. We get our word pharmacy from it today.

Jesus is our true Sabbath rest as He has fulfilled the law. Jesus said that all the law of the prophets "speak of Him".

People are free in Christ to observe any day as they like but when Judaizing spirits say to you that unless you follow the Old Testament way of the Sabbath - you are sinning and dis-obeying God. Avoid these and walk on with the Lord Himself.

 

[Stephen63]

Grace of God, like it is a bad thing...

When it's totally misinterpreted, it is.

 

[Grace777x70]

The "grace of God" doesn't teach us. His Holy spirit does, which is given by grace but is much more than just God's grace to us.

The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of grace. Heb. 10:29

Trying to separate out the grace and love of God from Jesus and the Holy spirit is like trying to separate the wet out of the water. Wetness comes with the water - it's part of it being "water" to begin with.

Titus 2:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

[SUP]12 [/SUP] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

 

[Stephen63]

to the worker it is a bad thing,
Grace says their works are meaningless and will never save them.

Grace is everything, to hear you tell it.

 

[Grace777x70]

Personally I believe that preaching the grace of God in the gospel of Christ without the other transformation part that grace brings is not right and perhaps there are some that do that - but I have not seen it.

I have seen others "accuse" them of saying it because they only hear the first part of grace being put forth which is the acceptance grace but didn't stay for the other transformational part - which is the empowering grace that brings true transformation of the life of Christ being manifested in and through us.

Thus they attack the "acceptance" part of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ and call it "easy believe-ism" and "greasy grace" and other derogatory terms that actually cheapen and denigrate the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Ariel82]

The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of grace. Heb. 10:29

Trying to separate out the grace and love of God from Jesus and the Holy spirit is like trying to separate the wet out of the water. Wetness comes with the water - it's part of it being "water" to begin with.

Titus 2:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

[SUP]12 [/SUP] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

What does the Holy spirit teach God's children?


Titus 2 ►
English Standard Version

1But as for you, teach what accords with sounda doctrine. 2Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness. 3Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, 4and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, 5to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled. 6Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled. 7Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, 8and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.

 

[Grace777x70]

There are 2 aspects to grace and it can be seen in Jesus dealings with a woman caught in adultery.

The very first thing that Jesus does with the woman caught in adultery is that He gets rid of her accusers - the religious Pharisees that wanted to condemn her because the "bible" said so in the Old Covenant...she was to be stoned. ( the law condemns us )

Jesus was the only one qualified to condemn her but He didn't.


1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".

It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.

Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now because you are a new creation in Him.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you."

The grace of God and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things in this New Covenant of grace!

"Knowing" that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.


What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based mindset and the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part.

This just drives them nuts and I understand why because it is scandalous and it "conflicts" with our religious man-made traditions and some church teachings from our denomination or "group".

To those that say our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell - the message of the finished work of Christ and of the riches of His grace are offensive to them. It has been from the start when Jesus came and it will be that way until He comes back for us.

It's the very nature of religion. The gospel of the grace of God in Christ exposes religion for what it really is and the "fur will fly" if their own attempts to save themselves don't count.

One of the lies in the garden of Eden is "You can be like God, independent of God if you do this one thing and eat of this tree."

 

[Ariel82]

Hebrews 10
24And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

26For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

******

Hebrews 12:6 ►
New International Version
because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son."

 

[mailmandan]

The above statement is simply not true. Show me from God’s Word where it says the gentiles were not commanded to keep God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandments? If your referring to Col 2:16-17. This is referring to the annual Feast days of Leviticus Chapter 23. Which is talking about the annual Feast and Holy days, New Moon and annual sabbaths that would fall on any day of the week, meat and drink offerings. This is not referring to God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment.

I can see that you went through a lot of trouble to explain away the truth and I can also see that you are thoroughly indoctrinated and most likely, unreachable. Are you a SDA or perhaps you attend the worldwide church of God? (Armstrongism). In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come. It's clear in those verses that the weekly Sabbath is in view. The phrase "a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day" refers to the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jewish calendar (1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4; 31:3; Ezekiel 45:17; Hosea 2:11). If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that passage, why would he have used the word "Sabbath?" He had already mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of festivals and new moons.

The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). We are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8) and are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant. The New Testament never commands Christians to observe the Sabbath with all it's rules and regulations. Nowhere in the Old Testament are the Gentile nations commanded to observe the Sabbath or condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if Sabbath observance were meant to be an eternal moral principle and is binding on Christians under the New Covenant. When the Apostles met at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15), they did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers. The apostle Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but breaking the Sabbath was never one of them.

*Please explain to me exactly how you keep the Sabbath day holy and do you believe it must be observed on Saturday or else!? Do you believe that keeping the Sabbath day on Saturday or not is the difference between salvation and damnation? Are you trusting in keeping the Sabbath day on Saturday as the means of your salvation?

The “Lords Day” has never been Sunday. God’s Word clearly tells us that the “Lords Day” is the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath of God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment (Ex 20:8-11) and that Jesus is the God of creation and the maker of this day.

The specific words, the "Lord's Day" are not found in Ex 20:8-11, but we see the "Lord's Day" in Revelation 1:10. As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out, the Lord's Day is the first day of the week - Revelation 1:10 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament which is Sunday.

Once again, the early Christians began to worship God on Sunday (the Lord's Day), because the first day of the week became associated with Christ's resurrection (Matthew 28:1-10; Luke 24:1; John 20:1; Revelation 1:10). We see from Acts 20:7 and I Corinthians 16:1-3 that the early Church gathered together on the first day of every week in order to "break bread," and also to take up a "collection for the saints." Nowhere in the New Testament is the Church commanded to gather together to worship on the Jewish seventh day Sabbath.

History records that the early Christians were worshipping on Sunday as far back as the first and second centuries A.D. For example:

"But every Lord's Day, gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, so that your sacrifice may be pure." (Didache c. 80-140)

"No longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day." (Ignatius, c. 105) Ignatius here reveals that the “Lord’s Day” is separate from the Jewish Sabbath.

"I will make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. For that reason, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead." (Barnabas c. 70-130)

"And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read... But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God... made the world. And Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead on that same day." (Justin Martyr c. 160)

"There was no need of circumcision before Abraham. Nor was there need of the observance of Sabbaths, or of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses. Accordingly, there is no more need of them now." (Justin Martyr c. 160)

"We do not follow the Jews in their peculiarities in regard to food nor in their sacred days." (Tertullian c. 197)

"Just as the abolition of fleshly circumcision and of the old Law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary." (Tertullian c. 197)

"On the day of our Lord's resurrection, which is the Lord's Day, you should meet more diligently, sending praise to God who made the universe by Jesus... On this day, there is the reading of the Prophets, the preaching of the Gospel, the oblation of the sacrifice, and the gift of the holy food." (Apostolic Constitutions, compiled c.390)

If we break is we are guilty before God of sin (Rom 6:23).

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 6:23).

There is not one verse in the whole of God’s Word that tells us to Worship God on Sunday.

The Christian community as a whole does not keep the Sabbath because it was a part of the legal requirements of the Law, and according to the New Testament the Christian today is not under such legal requirements like circumcision, Sabbath keeping, even tithing. Instead, we are to produce the righteousness of the Law, the character of Christ, through the Spirit (see Rom. 6:14; 7:1-8:13; 2 Cor. 3:4-18; Gal. 3-5).

Further, there are no commandments or exhortations in the New Testament for us to keep the Sabbath. Rather, the early church gathered on the first day of the week in celebration and remembrance of the resurrection. This is evident throughout the book of Acts (cf. also 1 Cor. 16:2 and Acts 20:7). Acts 20:7 is the clearest verse in the New Testament which indicates that Sunday was the normal meeting day of the apostolic church. Paul stayed in Troas for seven days (v. 6) and the church met on the first day of the week.

Note also in the 1 Cor. 16:1f passage that, though Paul is dealing with giving, there is no mention of tithing just as there is no call to assemble on the Sabbath (Saturday) as in the Old Testament. Paul never used the word “tithe” when he discussed giving, even though he gave more attention to giving than any other New Testament writer. Giving should be a systematic, weekly practice on Sunday, the first day of the week, when the church meets together. Giving was also to be proportionate—in keeping with one’s income (cf. Acts 11:29) and like meeting together for worship, Bible study, etc., it was to be the product of the work of the Spirit and not a legal requirement of the Law. - https://bible.org/question/why-do-christians-worship-sunday-instead-sabbath

God’s Word tells us though that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath day. It is a commandment of God to His people (Mark 2:28; Ex 20:8-11; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23).

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with His people Israel (the Jews) that is not applicable to Christians under the New Covenant (Colossians 2:16-17).

Who do we obey God or man? If we love Jesus we must follow Him.

Obeying men in false religions and cults who turn the Sabbath into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant is not obeying God or following Jesus.

If we are following the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God it will be the Word of God that will Judge us in the last days.

You are the master of irony.

God’s Sheep hear His Voice. Hope this helps

Yes, God's Sheep hear His voice and not the voice of deceivers. I sincerely hope and pray that you find your way out of bondage to legalism, just as brother Anderson did by studying his way out of the SDA church.

The Truth about the Seventh-day Adventist Church

Not sure if you are a member of the SDA church or not, but you can see from these links below just how dangerous turning the Sabbath day into a legalistic prescription can be!

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Sabbath as Seal of God

 

[Grace777x70]

What does the Holy spirit teach God's children?


Titus 2 ►
English Standard Version

1But as for you, teach what accords with sounda doctrine. 2Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness. 3Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, 4and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, 5to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled. 6Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled. 7Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, 8and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.

Amen - The Spirit of grace teaches us many things like Christ is made unto us from God - wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. 1 Cor. 1:30

The Spirit of grace and truth also testifies this truth below because of Christ's work. Knowing this transforms us to walk out who we are in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14-18 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

[SUP]16 [/SUP] "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Jesus said that the Spirit of grace has come to reveal the things of Christ to us - like we are joined as one spirit with the Lord. That Jesus does not lose any that have come to Him and He does not cast them out.

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by PHart

Right.
He throws them into the fire because of unbelief. At which time of their unbelief they cease to be children of God. Only the person who has the Spirit in them through a continuing faith in Christ has the Spirit of sonship in them. Those who stop believing are no longer a part of Christ that God would still have some kind of obligation to them as a member of His Son's body.

Ah, so the Spirit leaves when your faith waivers....now we're getting down to your monumentally flawed doctrine.

Here's a wonderful example of how opponents of the true faith use wicked tactics to twist what the writer says to make the truth of none effect.

Notice also the many "likes", which approve of this wicked tactic & show their agreement in this wickedness.

If the fruit is bad, so is the tree.

Those blinded by last day delusion will become repeater stations of their delusions, turning the delusion into an outright spiritual pandemic.

Delusion begets delusion. Since it's not Spirit-led & neither are its participants, wicked methods have to be used.

Wicked methods, wicked fruit. Wicked fruit, wicked tree. Anything that looks good is merely a form of godliness.

 

[Ariel82]

Amen - The Spirit of grace teaches us many things like Christ is made unto us from God - wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. 1 Cor. 1:30

The Spirit of grace and truth also testifies this truth below because of Christ's work. Knowing this transforms us to walk out who we are in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14-18 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

[SUP]16 [/SUP] "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," He then says,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

Jesus said that the Spirit of grace has come to reveal the things of Christ to us - like we are joined as one spirit with the Lord. That Jesus does not lose any that have come to Him and He does not cast them out.

What laws is God talking about with these words ": I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM"?

Some claim the 10 commandments, but with your posts you seem to reject that idea. So what laws do you believe God writes upon the hearts and minds of His children?

 

[Grace777x70]

What laws is God talking about with these words ": I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM"?

Some claim the 10 commandments, but with your posts you seem to reject that idea. So what laws do you believe God writes upon the hearts and minds of His children?

I have posted about this many times and I will do it as I did before. There are new people viewing the thread all the time so maybe it'll help them to see the difference.

First I will post an article of "why" the 10 commandments themselves in the way given out on Mt. Sinai are not written of our hearts.

God said in Hebrews that He will make a "New Covenant" - not like the one He made on Mt. Sinai. Heb. 8:8-13


The word "law" means "rule, principle, instruction" - not just meaning the law of Moses.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hi Grace777,

Comments below

There are Christians that believe that Jesus is the substance of all the law of Moses and that they speak about Him - that He has fulfilled all things - the law including the Sabbath is but a shadow of the real thing which is and always will be Christ Himself and so He is our Sabbath rest as Hebrews 4 talks about.

Until you study more of the old testament and see that God's Law is different to the laws of Moses you are going to run into problems. I have shared with you the difference between the Law of God and the laws of Moses through a multitude of scripture that you close your eyes. I am not sure why? If you believe the scriptures I am showing are not correct please show me why? If you cannot show me why the scriptures I show you are not correct why do you not believe God's Word?

Scripture support linked

God's Law and the laws of Moses (1)
God's Law and the laws of Moses (2)
God's Law and the laws of Moses (3)

Of course God's Law represents Jesus. It is the character of God and that is why it was given to us to show us that all our righteousness is as filthy rags to lead us to Jesus so that he can save us from our sins. Hebrews Chapter 4 is talking about the 7th Day Sabbath and that people could not enter into God's Rest because of their unbelief <SIN>.

Lets talk about your Hebrews 4 again shall we?

HEB 4
King James Bible
A Sabbath-Rest for God's People
(Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 16:22-36)

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Key Scripture points

· Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)
· The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbeliefit (v2)
· For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
· Speaking of the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
· God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
· Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
· There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
· Those that enter into God’s rest cease from works as God did v10
· We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
· The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest [SUP]4520[/SUP] to the people of God.” (NAS; Heb 4:9)
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)
Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?

The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28-29)

If you believe this is not true show my why through God's Word?

Resting in Christ's work for us on the cross and resurrection of which we have died with Him. This is the reason we have died to the law, been released from the law, and not under the law - SO THAT we could be joined to Another - Christ Himself. To me - saying that "If gentiles do not keep the Sabbath Day as in the law of Moses - they are dis-obeying God and are sinning " This is a Judaizer belief system which is anti-Christ at it's core. - because of what so many have shown to those that say we must keep the law of Moses now that we are Christians . Paul has refuted that in Galatians and in Romans. This is why we are NOT under the law anymore but under grace only. This is the real reason why some extreme sects of the Hebrew Roots movement and Sabbath keepers as in the Old Testament way are being shown to in fact be Judaziers and they are as Paul said - perverting and distorting the gospel of the grace of Christ. You will constantly be having people come against this distortion of the gospel.

This section is more of the same as the first section. I think your problem is you do not understand the differences between God's Law and the many laws of Moses which were nailed to the cross (Col 2:14). Please read the response to the first section above. If you do not believe the scriptures I am sharing with you can you tell me why from God's Word?

Did you know there is a difference in Scripture when it says to be "Under the Law" and "Under the works of the law"?

To be "Under the Law" means to be convicted by the Law of God as a sinner

Scripture support:

Rom 2:12-13
"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Rom 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin


To be "Under the works of the Law" means to try and earn your salvation through trying to keep God's Law.

Scripture support:

Rom 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

So lets get something clear. No one that I know of is saying that we are saved by what we do. We are saved by our faith alone. It is a gift of God as we have Faith in the Blood of Jesus to wash us from our sins. As we have Faith in God's Word Jesus works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. Creating in us a new heart for those the do not walk after the flesh (sinful mind) but after the Spirit (the mind or Word of God). It is Jesus that saves us as we have complete faith and trust in His Word to do what it says it will do.

Getting back to the nuts and bolts. As you can see from the Word of God shown in this post and the other links there is a lot of scripture support against what you are saying in this post. I pray that you might take it to God in prayer and search the scriptures to see if these things are correct of not. If not please show me from God's Word what you believe I have said that is not correct. If not believe God and follow His Word. Now we get back to the same point at hand where does it say in God's Word that God's 4th commandment have been abolished and we no longer are required by God to keep his 7th Day Sabbath? If you cannot show me the scripture why do you not believe God?

Ok Grace777, I actually really have enjoyed talking to you lately. It's so much nicer sharing God's Word together don't you think? Thank you for that. Late my end so will chat latter.

God bless you

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a great article that speaks about what is written on our hearts now that we are in Christ. I like to use this website as it has at the bottom a place where you can ask questions and sometimes I learn from that area a lot.

The Law Written on Our Hearts is not the Ten Commandments

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,” says the Lord. “I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.” (Heb 10:16)

“This is obviously a reference to the law of Moses,” says the law-preacher. “The Ten Commandments were written in stone, now they’re written in the hearts and minds of God’s people.”

Not true. Here are seventeen reasons why God has not written the Ten Commandments on your heart:

1. The law inflames sin (Rom 5:20) and the strength of sin is the law (1 Cor 15:56). Why would God want to stir up sin in your life?


2. The law condemns (2 Cor 3:9), yet there is no condemnation to those in Christ.


3. The law ministers death (2 Cor 3:7), but God wants you to enjoy abundant life.


4. Law and grace don’t mix. You are under grace, not law (Rom 6:14).


5. Living by the law will alienate you from Christ (Gal 5:4).


6. Living by the law is cheating on Jesus (Rom 7:1-6). Why would God do anything to encourage spiritual adultery?


7. We’re to live by faith but the law is not of faith (Gal 3:12). The law encourages us to depend on ourselves instead of Jesus.


8. Those who live under the law are under a curse (Gal 3:10). Why would God curse those he has blessed?


9. The law binds and enslaves (Rom 7:6), but Jesus wants you free.


10. The law keeps you immature for it makes nothing perfect or complete (Heb 7:19).


11. We have died to the law so that we may serve in the new way of the Spirit and “not in the old way of the written code” (Rom 7:6).


12. When there has been a change of priesthood, the law must be changed also (Heb 7:12). For God to write the old law on our hearts would be like saying Aaron is greater than Jesus.


13. God found fault with the law-keeping covenant and made it obsolete (Heb 8:7,13). Why would God insult his Son’s sacrifice by giving you the very thing his sacrifice rendered obsolete?


14. The law is a shadow of the good things to come and not the reality (Heb 10:1). Why would God give you the shadow instead of “the good thing”?


15. The Jews considered the law to be ordained by angels (Heb 2:2). If so, says the author of Hebrews, then it is inferior to the gospel of Jesus (Heb 1:4). Why would God give you an inferior gift?


16. Some Christians think that God gives them the law as a guide to live by, but why would God want you to repeat the mistake of the Galatians (Gal 3:2)? Why would God do anything to make you fall from grace?


17. The old law-keeping covenant required an accounting or remembering of sin, but the new covenant is characterized by God forgiving and forgetting on account of Jesus (Heb 10:17). If the law that God writes in our hearts is the law of Moses, then Jesus died for nothing.

If God has written the Ten Commandments on your heart and mind, you should be able to list all ten with no trouble. Can you? What’s the seventh commandment? You can’t do it because it’s not there, and a very good thing that is too! If the law that God writes in our hearts is the law of Moses, you’re in big trouble.

The good news is that God has written in us a far better law. What is this new and better law?

Unquote:

Here is the link below to look at the questions if interested.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/...-commandments/

 

[Grace777x70]

Paul who knew the Law better than anyone --says that the 10 commandments are the Law. Sorry...there is no separating them no matter how much we were religiously taught in our church settings.

Here is Paul saying without a doubt that "coveting" is in the Law...unless coveting is not one of the 10 commandments. Is this true? Coveting is not one of the 10 commandments anymore?

Romans 7:7-9 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

Christians that are in Christ and are born-again - new creations in Christ do not break the carnal Sabbath as outlined in the Old Testament.

Have we ever read where Jesus said that the priests who stand in the temple - break the Sabbath which is in the Law?...or that David and his men ate of the bread which was in the temple?

Matthew 12:2-6 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."

[SUP]3 [/SUP] But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,

[SUP]4 [/SUP] how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?

[SUP]5 [/SUP] "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?

[SUP]6 [/SUP] "But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.

Why were the priest not breaking the Sabbath law - because they were in the temple. Why did David be able to eat of the bread? Because he was in the temple.

This is why the true believer in Christ will not be breaking any Sabbath law because we are in the temple. Know you not that you are the temple of God?

Those that are in the temple are not breaking the Sabbath law by doing work because we are in Christ. He is the true temple of God as we are in union with Him and are one in the spirit.

Until we understand the reality of our union with Christ and what that means - we will be resorting to going back to the Law and trying to live by our own flesh and we are exchanging Christ Himself for the law.

 

[Ariel82]

LGF the scriptures are correct..,,your understanding and spin that condemns people who don't keep the 7th day Sabbath...not so much.

 

[Grace777x70]

We can't be left hanging here about what or rather Who is written on our hearts now that we are in Christ.

What is this new law that is written on our hearts seeing as we know it's not the ten commandments in the form given in the Law.

What is this New Covenant that Ezekiel is prophesying about that was to come and now is here manifested in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection?

What is the Law Written on Our Hearts?

Six-hundred years before Jesus came, the prophet Jeremiah spoke of a new covenant that God would make with his people:


“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.” (Jer 31:33-34)

What is the law that God writes on our hearts and minds? Here are three things it is not:

• It is not the law of Moses. As we saw in the last post, if God wrote the Ten Commandments on our hearts then Jesus died for nothing.

• It is not a new and improved version of the law. It is not the new commands of Jesus or the New Testament. We cannot please God by keeping a new law any more than we could please him by keeping an old one.

• It is not the knowledge of right and wrong that was bestowed upon us – against the Lord’s wishes – by Adam.

So what is this law that the Lord writes on our hearts and minds and embeds in our very being?

It is Christ Himself.

Let’s look at three things the New Testament says about the new law in our hearts.

1. The law of love

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (John 13:34)

Under the old law covenant, love was demanded from you. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.”

But under the new covenant of grace, love is given to you – “As I have loved you” – and out of the overflow of Christ’s measureless love we are able to love others.

How does it happen?

God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. (Rom 5:5)

God abundantly pours his love into our hearts by giving us the Holy Spirit, a.k.a. the Spirit of Christ. Do you see the difference between the old and new?

• Under the old, the law was a rule for weak men to obey. Under the new, the Law is the Spirit of Christ given to us, loving us, and loving others through us.

• Under the old, you loved others because you feared punishment. But under the new, you love because a Lover lives in you and it is his nature to love.

• Under the old, you had to make an effort to obey. But under the new you have to make an effort to disobey. It’s a whole new way of life.

2. The law of the Spirit of life

It’s important that you understand the difference between the old law (a written code you can’t keep) and the new Law (Christ himself, living in you). Try and live by the old laws, as Paul did, and it make you miserable:

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? (Rom 7:24)

Paul couldn’t keep the old law no matter how hard he tried. He needed a new law and that new law is a Who:

Who will rescue me…? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 7:24-25a)

Do you see? The old law is a what; the new law is a Who. The old law ministers condemnation and death (2 Cor 3:7-9), but the new “law of the Spirit gives life” (Rom 8:2).

For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor 3:6)

Who gives life? Not a set of rules, but the Spirit of Christ within you. The new law is a Who.

3. The perfect law of liberty

James wrote of “the perfect law that gives freedom” (Jas 1:25), which can be contrasted with the law of Moses that binds (Rom 7:6).

What is the perfect law that gives freedom? Well, what is the implanted word that can save you (Jas 1:21)?

It’s not the Ten Commandments or the Bible. It’s Jesus, the living Word who sets us free.

The perfect law of liberty describes what Jesus has done (perfectly fulfilled or completed the law) and the fruit he will bear in our lives (liberty) if we trust him.

But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it – not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it – they will be blessed in what they do. (Jas 1:25)

Look into the mirror of Moses’ law and you will be miserable, for it exposes all your faults. But look into the perfect law which is Jesus and you will be blessed, for it reveals His righteousness.

“Don’t just listen but do what it (the perfect law of liberty) says” (Jas 1:22). In other words, allow the Spirit of Christ to convince you that in him you are righteous and holy.

Don’t walk away from the perfect law and forget who you are in Christ. Fix your eyes on Jesus. Look intently with an unveiled face and be transformed into his likeness.

The Law written in our hearts is Jesus

Jeremiah said those who had the new law written on their hearts would know the Lord and would no longer need others to teach them. This is describing your union with Christ. One with the Lord you have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16). His Spirit dwells in you and teaches you all things (John 14:26).

The law of the Lord written into your members is your Father’s spiritual DNA. It is the seed of God birthed in you by the Holy Spirit. It’s Jesus Himself.

How do you know He’s there? Because you are a new creation with new hopes and desires. You no longer want to sin.

Your desire is to love God and others and that desire has nothing to do with old rules written in stone.

Christian, you are who you are because Christ lives in you. He is the new law written, by God, in your heart and mind.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/...on-our-hearts/