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Nov 12, 2015
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Hi stonesoffire

Good morning (my time),

Is one a legalist if they through love teach that we should repent from our sins because our sins will be the cause of our separation from God?

Is one a legalist if through love they teach the God’s Law as the great standard in the judgement where each one of us will stand before God for the things that we have done in this life, knowing that it is God’s Law that will bring the sinner to the Cross of Jesus where he can see the Love of God and by faith seek forgiveness for his/her sins (Rom 6:23; Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Gal 3:24)?

Is a person a legalist if they love Jesus and through faith in God’s Word and His Spirit working in them choose to follow what God’s Word says (Rom 8:4; Gal 5:16)?

Jesus says that the “Lords Day” is the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath not Sunday worship (Mark 2:28) and “If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:14). I follow Jesus not because it earns salvation but because I love Him. So am I a legalist?
God bless you.
By what I see of your last paragraph, no, this does not make you a legalist. There are two things that would make you a legalist regarding this, in my opinion.
1. If you tried to force that on others or judged them as disobedient because they didn't do as you have chosen to do. (Some men think every day is holy).
2. If you believed you were obeying God regarding Sabbath rest based solely on this outward keeping, yet worried all the time about money, provision, shelter, 401k, etc.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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There is the law of sin and death and the law of the Spirit,

The word "LAW" is not by itself evil.

G777 you still haven't said what law God writes on the hearts of his children.
The Law He writes on our hearts is to love Him with all our heart,strength, mind, and soul, and to love our neighbor as ourself.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
what is repentance? here ya go simply put, to turn aeay from the things you are aware of that are sin. not only to pretend but to stop doing that. Heres one example

A man is having an affair on His wife has been for a year, He comes to Christ Hearing the Gospel, and in His heart now that He believes in God, He sees that adultery is sin. if He repents it means He will break off the affair, and go confess to His wife, and rid Himself of the Guilt and then ask God for forgiveness and to cleanse Him from unrighteousness. thats a good example of repentance.

i think i know where you are going " changong of the mind" but heres the thing if he continues the affair yet says hes repented in His mind its just a lie another sin and another and another as He continues. when we come to Jesus we now are in a relationship its you, Jesus the mediator, and God the Father. Jesus is seated at Gods right Hand as our advocate, the very one who died for our sins is there pleading and interceeding between God and us. Because Jesus died to pay for our sins, if He forgives us, God will always accept us as clean. Jesus though commands repentance meaning as you come into that relationship and recieve the spirit.

now one of the spirits roles is to convict us of sin, not condemn us for sin, but convict us of our guilt and not for our past sins, but for the things were continuing in. the holy spirit will bring those things to us and Godly sorrow will cause the prompting to reoent. its amazing How you can be consumned with guilt over an ongoing sin, and when you truly stop doing it that guilt is like it was never there.

Jesus death doesnt mean now we can sin guilt free, it means now we can repent and be forgiven of everything weve ever done. as we do this the spirit will then bring another thing to heart , and then another and pretty soon a person can examine thier lives and its hard to find an obvious sin to repent of and you will notice those things that used to be to strong and we really could try and never really rid our lives of, lose thier grip on us after just a short while you ee that same thing as an evil that thing that used to not bother you to do, now its something that has no appeal no pull you actually learn to hate those things you used to partake of without Guilt and even enjoy.

repentance isnt what it seems, when you set your mind and heart to live riht and pray always for God to give you repentance to bring those things to your conscience, rather than what it seems from one side as a hard and joyless thing to do to give up that sin you enjoy, but from the other side when you act in faith and stop the action through the Knowledge of Jesus Christ......it brings far more peace and Joy and true real freedom from that thing that used to be chained to you. its not a one time thing as our knowledge increases, so does our repentance sooner or later those obvious sins are gone and little things begin popping up and the more you do this and experience its truth the easier it becomes and you actually begin wanting to find flaws and get rid of them, your heart becomes one after Gods will, His ways when you see Just how true His promises are and that it really is possible to repent and act in righteousness. im not sure anyone will ever be a finished work, but its important to Know its personal between you, Jesus and God the Father. you are only accountable to repent of the things you know are sin. so i cant judge you, you cant judge me but both of us have our relationship with God through Christ Jesus.


its about being able to abide in the word and keep your conscience clear and not have to skip over all the behavioral stuff in the word, a greedy man needs to start giving, a lustful man needs to turn His eyes away from sexual things, a vain person needs to become Humble, a violent man needs to become a peacemaker on and on. and it is absolutely poissible and within our Grasp to change, Jesus has already made it possible by the spirit in us thats Gods Nature living in us and the power to truly repent. changing the mind has to be first and that happens when people stop pretending repentance isnt rewuired and stop pretending Sin isnt a big deal. sorrow comes when you get that Jesus died because of your sin. How can one who Loves Jesus feel comfortable when they are continuing on in what placed the suffering on Him?

Nope that hat s not repentance, a non believer can not even do this, he must be saved first, and in order to be saved he must repent. Because until you repent you will never have saving faith.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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I can see that you went through a lot of trouble to explain away the truth and I can also see that you are thoroughly indoctrinated and most likely, unreachable.

Hi mailmandan

Are you serious? I send you all that scripture in post 21722 linked here
and all you say is that I have gone to a lot of trouble to explain away the truth and you ignore all the scripture I send you? Who is the one that is "unreachable" when your eyes are already closed to God's Word? All you have done is send back a post with the same scriptures I have already responded to and a series quotes from man over the Word of God.

How about you respond to the post I have just sent you and show me if you can, why you think what I have sent you from God's Word is not correct and we will take it from there. What do you think?

I am not interested in your references from the teachings of men. Lets share the Word of God. I love to share the Word of God but if your going to do it with a closed mind this is not sharing God's Word as you have already made up your mind. In this case only these Words are true from Jesus...

JOHN 12:
[SUP]47,[/SUP] If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. [SUP]48,[/SUP] He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Lets talk more using God's Word? Ok late my time chat latter

God bless


 
A

Ariel82

Guest
So G777, you are saying that Jesus is the Law?

I have to disagree.

We do get the Seed implanted in our heart. We do have the law of love, the law of liberty and the law of the spirit of life written upon our hearts.

Yet Jesus is more than the law.

God writes the law of love: to love Him and love others as Jesus loves us even while we were sinners.

The law of liberty: Jesus died for our sins upon the cross

The law of the Spirit of life: if we crucify our old selves, God allows us to be resurrected and born again as His beloved children to live godly lives by the leading of the Holy spirit.

Those are three laws I believe God writes upon the hearts of those He has accepted into the New Covenant.

*****

I know it's one of your favorite websites G777, but I prefer when you just type what you believe versus quoting from it.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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We don't need to live by the moral code in the law of Moses which says in Lev. 18:23 to not have sex with a animal. The law of Christ Himself , the law of love, the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will stop this.

People often say to those that speak of the grace of God and that they are not under the law of Moses including the 10 commandments anymore that they believe they are without "laws" now.

We do have laws in the New Covenant.

They are exciting laws that bring life and wholeness to us all - because these are all Christ Himself in us.

Jesus fulfilled the law and he said that all the law of Moses and the prophets "speak of Him".

The law of Moses including the 10 commandments was a mere shadow of the real thing which was Jesus.


Read the law to see Jesus in it and to know that Jesus did that for us and His life in us now leads us in all things. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

We now live by:


1) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. ( Romans 8:2 )

2) The law of love ( Romans 13:10 James 2:8 )

3) The law of faith ( Romans 3:27 and the law of Moses is NOT of faith - Gal. 3:12 )

4) The law of liberty in Christ Jesus ( James 1:25 )

5) The law of Christ - which is Christ Himself in us. ( Gal. 6:2 )

We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ Himself in us to lead us in all affairs of life. We don't go back to the law of Moses that were a shadow of the real thing which is Christ in us.
Jesus is more then enough.

Yes...we glory in the laws that we have in the New Covenant because they are all Christ Himself living in and through us. ( Gal.2:20 and Col. 3:3 )

Get this wrong and we create a D.I.Y. religion which really nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.


Galatians 5:22-23 (NASB)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

[SUP]23 [/SUP]
gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Anyone else catch LGF


Change of Joshua to Jesus in this verse?

Hebrews 4
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.

Post 21796

Wonder if it's a typo or intentional?
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Hi mailmandan

Are you serious? I send you all that scripture in post 21722 linked here
and all you say is that I have gone to a lot of trouble to explain away the truth and you ignore all the scripture I send you? Who is the one that is "unreachable" when your eyes are already closed to God's Word? All you have done is send back a post with the same scriptures I have already responded to and a series quotes from man over the Word of God.
I did not ignore the scriptures that you sent me and my eyes are not closed to God's Word. Only to misinterpretations of God's Word.

How about you respond to the post I have just sent you and show me if you can, why you think what I have sent you from God's Word is not correct and we will take it from there. What do you think?
I have already sent you more than enough information from God's Word to show that you are not correct. If the truth is what you are looking for, then you will find it in the scriptures that I have already sent you. If accommodating your biased doctrine is the only thing that you are interested in, then you won't accept the truth no matter how many times I explain to you that your interpretation of these scriptures is not correct.

I am not interested in your references from the teachings of men. Lets share the Word of God. I love to share the Word of God but if your going to do it with a closed mind this is not sharing God's Word as you have already made up your mind. In this case only these Words are true from Jesus...
How ironic. I am not interested in your false teachings about the Sabbath from the teachings of men. I love to share the Word of God, especially with those who are willing to consider the truth.

JOHN 12:
[SUP]47,[/SUP] If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. [SUP]48,[/SUP] He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Lets talk more using God's Word?
I'm a believer, not an unbeliever who rejects Christ. You are not fooling me for a second, so unless you are willing to consider the truth that I already shared, I'm done wasting my time with you.

Please prayerfully consider the truth and God bless.

 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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How about you respond to the post I have just sent you and show me if you can, why you think what I have sent you from God's Word is not correct and we will take it from there. What do you think?
How about you answer my questions:

*Please explain to me exactly how you keep the Sabbath day holy and do you believe it must be observed on Saturday or else!? Do you believe that keeping the Sabbath day "on Saturday or not" is the "difference between salvation and damnation?" Are you trusting in keeping the Sabbath day on Saturday as the means of your salvation?

 
Nov 22, 2015
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Anyone else catch LGF


Change of Joshua to Jesus in this verse?

Hebrews 4
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.

Post 21796

Wonder if it's a typo or intentional?
Nope..never saw that.

Although to be fair - the KJV uses Jesus instead of Joshua. Both Jesus and Joshua have the exact same meaning. "Jehovah is salvation."

Here is the same name being used - it can be called Jesus or Joshua - depending on the context.

Luke 3:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] the son ofJoshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,

And also here.

Acts 7:45 (NASB)
[SUP]45 [/SUP] "And having received it in their turn, our fathers brought it in with Joshua upon dispossessing the nations whom God drove out before our fathers, until the time of David.

Of course we know the real purpose of attempting to say that Jesus has not given us rest - because the deception is trying to say Jesus is not athe true Sabbath rest as Hebrews 4 talks about.

Hebrews 4:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

The true manifestation of the Sabbath which is Christ only ( and the Old Testament reveals it as a shadow of type of the real thing - Christ Himself ) will be us resting from what we do to rely on what God in Christ has already done.

We rest from our self works as God did from His on the 7th day of creation.
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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No, I'm now saying you're telling lies, saying I said that when I didn't.

I won't call God a liar, but if you don't quit twisting what I say, I'm gonna call you one.

I wrote that plainly, so you didn't have a problem understanding it.

Nobody can be that stupid, can they?
Your view that one can lose salvation calls God a liar....my points are solid...just admit it....For you to say one can lose salvation the following must be true....

1. NEVER forsake us or leave us<----yet you say he will
1. He will finish the work of faith he started in us<---Yet you say he won't
3. Nothing can separate us from the love of GOD<---but something can
4. He began our faith and finishes our faith<---another broken promise you say
5. He that believes has eternal life<---Temporary according to you
6. He seals us with his Spirit which is proof of faith and salvation<---He breaks his seal
7. We are spiritually born of incorruptible seed<--Yet is can be corrupted and we can be UNBORN

etc....

Uttermost
pantelés: all complete, entire​
Original Word: παντελής, ές
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pantelés
Phonetic Spelling: (pan-tel-ace')
Short Definition: complete, forever, entirely
Definition: complete, entire, perfect, through all time.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I did not ignore the scriptures that you sent me and my eyes are not closed to God's Word. Only to misinterpretations of God's Word.

I have already sent you more than enough information from God's Word to show that you are not correct. If the truth is what you are looking for, then you will find it in the scriptures that I have already sent you. If accommodating your biased doctrine is the only thing that you are interested in, then you won't accept the truth no matter how many times I explain to you that your interpretation of these scriptures is not correct.

How ironic. I am not interested in your false teachings about the Sabbath from the teachings of men. I love to share the Word of God, especially with those who are willing to consider the truth.

I'm a believer, not an unbeliever who rejects Christ. You are not fooling me for a second, so unless you are willing to consider the truth that I already shared, I'm done wasting my time with you.

Please prayerfully consider the truth and God bless.
Well said Dan,

Whenever we look at the Old Testament and the reading of Moses without filtering it through the finished work of Christ we will have a "veil" over our eyes like Paul says in 2 Cor. 5.

We will never see Christ for Himself and what He has already done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection. We will be exchanging Christ Himself for the keeping of laws or doing good works.

This is why Judaizing and "works to keep oneself saved" are both doing the exact same thing spiritually. By trying to accomplish by what they do or don't do - what Christ has already done for us and we receive the things of Him by grace through faith alone.

The gospel of the grace of God in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection offers permanent freedom. When the gospel of Christ is "seen" for what He has truly done - it brings many things to us that our natural mind cannot "see".

Christ Himself which is the grace of God because we are now new creations in Christ - joined as one spirit - brings eternal acceptance, unconditional approval, uninterrupted fellowship, incorruptible holiness and relentless love.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Who here do you believe is only in mental assent, rejecting the Holy Spirit of God?
Rejecting confession & repentance after conversion does what?

Rejecting the Holy Spirit that sends conviction demanding repentance.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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If one is going to live by the law - then he is obligated to live by all of it. There are no "parts" to the Law. Paul said that "coveting" was in the Law.

Saying that some laws are for us and some are not is just watering down the Law to make it seem "do-able" but in reality "law-keepers" have a very low respect for the Law and in fact break the law every day.

Romans 10:4-5 (NASB)

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

We have died to the Law SO THAT we might live unto God.

Galatians 2:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.


There is no justification or right standing with God because one "keeps the law". Christians live by faith - faith in Christ and what He has already done and we live by His life in us now.

Galatians 3:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11[/SUP] Now
that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

The Law is NOT of faith and if you practice the Law - you must live by it.

Galatians 3:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

When we are trying to keep the law of which circumcision and the Sabbath keeping as in the Old Testament way is a part of - we are obligated to keep the whole law

(
Remember there are NO PARTS to the law - it is either all or live by Christ by grace through faith in His finished work on the cross and resurrection )

Galatians 5:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

We can trust the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ in us to lead us into life in Him. Let's eat from the tree of Life - which is Christ Himself in us.

The Law is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We were not meant to eat from that tree. That is for God.


We were meant to eat from the tree of Life which is Christ Himself. Choose Christ. He is our life.
He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Notice that the tree of life is not called "the knowledge of life" - but life itself = which is Christ Himself.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. ( NOT in the law of Moses )
 
S

Sully

Guest
No.
The Spirit leaves when you reject him in willful and determined unbelief, not doubt.
Your post states only the person who has the Spirit through a continuing faith...so when Peter walked on water and his faith discontinued Jesus should've rightfully let him sink to the bottom of the sea. :confused:
 
Aug 15, 2009
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The holy spirit does not leave any believer.The word says that you are sealed unto redemption. you belong to Jesus and not the world, or the devil any longer. You cannot find one verse where someone have been holy ghost filled, and turned back the way they were. If they did go back, then they were not of God in the first place. You can't break ties with God after you have been redeemed . You may grieve the holy ghost at times, or surpress it.
Hebrews 6:
4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

These broke away from Christ.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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Hebrews 6:
4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

These broke away from Christ.
just wait soon this has to be looked at thru the finished work of Christ and we have some scholar interpret it in some way wherre it doesnt mean what it says........... im waiting and ill be convinced if someone can do it
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I believe that all true Christians - born from above with the nature of God in them as new creations in Christ - sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Circumcised by Christ Himself where the body of flesh where the power of sin still resides ( Romans 7:17-22 ) is "cut away" from the inner man in Christ - that these true believers in Christ finished work all desire to live godly and to manifest all that Christ is in them now in the new creation.

Where we may differ is on the "process" that this is done and of course the consequences for not walking by the spirit.

To some it means not experiencing the things of God that is part of our inheritance because we are in the kingdom of God. ( Rom. 8:13 )

To others they believe that our loving Father throws His children into hell if the don't "perform" and keep themselves saved.

Here is my view on the "process" of walking out what is already in us in our new creation which is one spirit with the Lord Jesus Christ.

We are transformed by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror - 2 Cor. 3:17-18.

This transformation is a passive occurrence ( as the Greek shows the word for "transformed" is in the passive voice - which means that something is being done to the person - not the person themselves doing it ).

We do participate in this with the Holy Spirit as it is God that is at work in us - both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13

This is similar to what happened to Moses when he was beholding God on the mountain - his face shined with the glory of the Lord and it transformed his face and the Israelites could see it ( Altho Moses' was fading - ours in Christ gets brighter - from glory to glory )

Also the same Greek word is used when Jesus was "transfigured" on the mountain of transfiguration and the glory of Him shone out for the disciples to see. This too was passive - which means that Jesus did not do it Himself - it was done to Him.

Jesus was manifesting outwardly what He already really was inside of Him - in His spirit where the Holy Spirit and the Father are as One with Him.

Lastly the same Greek word was used in Romans 12:2 - be transformed by the renewing of our mind. This too is "passive".

This renewing of our mind involves the realities of Christ in us and all that He has done on the cross and resurrection - and the fact that we too died with Him on the cross and rose with Him to newness of life in the Spirit. - in our inner man in Christ - the new creation.

I maintain that the teaching about Christ brings about the grace and faith necessary to live the true Christian life and it all comes from being a manifestation of what already is in us because of our union with Christ as one spirit in the inner man in Christ.

I believe Peter walking on the water is a mini-version of what the true Christian life looks like - keeping our eyes on Jesus only and in obedience to Jesus' word "Come" - Peter was able to walk on water and he himself was able to do things that normally couldn't be done in the natural.

One last thing was when I looked at how Jesus responded to others - He was moved with compassion - this was a passive occurrence too that was manifesting the life that was in Him to help others.

It was not a conscious decision to say " Ok, now I will heal someone".....it was a passive response from the life of love that was in Him.

I hope I was able to articulate what I am seeing.....
:)
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Your post states only the person who has the Spirit through a continuing faith...so when Peter walked on water and his faith discontinued Jesus should've rightfully let him sink to the bottom of the sea. :confused:
He is very patient and forgiving. :)

But be careful to not get caught up in debate over whether abiding (continuing in faith and growing faith) is necessary or not. It is too easy to come to the point where we reach the conclusion where we actually do away with the abiding and then we wind up as off course as the one we are debating doctrine with.