Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

you see, here is what many of you teach- that we are saved by faith through good works, and if you continue in faith and keep doing good works, you get grace. now, this sounds reasonable, it makes sense. but, one BIG problem, IT iS NOT BIBLICAL.

saved by grace, through faith, for good works is the Biblical truth. but, a lot of people really do not believe Paul, they think he " contradicts " Jesus, James, Peter, and John. ( he does not)

grace7 never leaves this truth, and you workers can't stand it.

Absolutely..........it is clear.....the number is plenteous that comes before the throne pushing what they peddle....a grace/faith infused with works to gain or keep salvation....Paul was clear in Galatians 1 and 3....such a dogma is false, contrary to what Paul taught and double cursed.......deceived fools believe it.<<< ACCORDING TO PAUL AND those are his words...not mine!

 

[dcontroversal]

I am tired of it as well, since it certainly demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the role of grace in the believers life, for one.

But all this hypothesizing about someone's salvation and then making it so extreme, mass murderer, just to make a point of what really?

What if the person suffered some head trauma and he is disconnected from reality. We are not God to make these judgements on a persons life.

There is no license to sin, grace stops sin not empowers it. Only a person not relying on grace would view things this way.

It is back handed jab against the grace of God, saying God is not able to work in the life of the believer. So if he depended on the law he would not have committed mass murder, that is really what they are really saying.

Grace is not enough we need the law as well, because in their line of thinking no one is really saved outside of law and being morally pure.

Every single sin is paid for inside or outside of Grace. To know and believe this is to be truly humbled.

Amen........In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast....!!!!!!

 

[FranC]

This is a very fascinating and interesting topic to me that I believe needs more study. It is like calling this entire subject, ‘Spiritual works discernment.’

Spiritual works, when are they of God’s spirit and when are they from the human spirit? I believe that is a core question.
We do human works every day. They are necessary. We do chores, go to work, care for loved ones etc. These are not spiritual works however. They are things that even natural animal does for survival, safety and ego…Maslow’s Heirarchy/pyramid comes to mind. We think that God will reward us more for paying extra (we feel we are doing extra) attention to the needs of our loved one. He won’t. This is expected and they are not spiritual works.

Spiritual works on the other hand are unnatural to us as we inhabit an opposing spirit today in the flesh body. Hopefully we are growing in the good spirit of truth and the force of this evil spirit is constantly in retreat and weakening.

I believe we know spiritual work as we mature as believers. We begin to gain experience when spiritual work is at hand.
Spiritual work tends to occur when it defies or confuses our human logic and reasoning, even our emotions and feelings. Some say there is a place in our natural human spirit that has the ability to know the will of the newly joined spirit of God inside of us – it communicated using the spiritual sense of intuition.

So some characteristics of spiritual work would be something done or called to do spontaneously that triggers the fruits or a fruit of the holy spirit simultaneously. I usually get goos-bumps and shivers through my body when spiritual work in at hand…
Now in Acts I’ve noticed that spiritual work was being done. The spirit called people or led people…. No one decides on their own to do things…

As we are today, our human spirit is joined with the (part of, portion of) the spirit of God, and this new spirit will eventually merge with our own spirit as one, completely – to be seem at our resurrection in our new light/energy body. We will then have a completely new compound-derived spirit, if you will. A human spirit of pure extract and energy channeled directly to our Lord Jesus Christ’s own spirit. We will finally realize what the expression ‘In Christ’ really means- and we will be doing spiritual work constantly.

I need to further investigate what scripture says on this very important topic.

Bless you
In Christ, Always

Hi AKAP
Nice to have you aboard. And it's nice to know that you're interested in this very important topic which is spreading through
churches today and will bring spiritual ruin to many.

While you're reading, might I suggest that you keep these verses in mind:

Colossians 3:10
Colossians 3:17
Colossians 3:23-25


Colossians 3:10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

10 and have put on the new self who is being [a]renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him—



Colossians 3:17 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

17 Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.


Colossians 3:23-25 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

23 Whatever you do, do your work [a]heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men,

24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward [c]of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.

25 For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and [d]that without partiality.

I believe that EVERYTHING we do after we know Jesus should be done for His glory.
Going to work, raising a family, teaching in a school, EVERYTHING takes on a new light and our light is to shine before men.
Mathew 5.16

As you read the gospels and the words of Jesus, I'm sure you'll find that He left many instructions as to how we are to behave and that we are to do good works while here on earth.

You will not find ANY VERSE where Jesus states to ONLY believe in Him and you will be saved.


Hope to hear from you again.

 

[UnderGrace]

I agree gb9 ....but I think it is the other way around........faith is a response to grace.
And it is the ongoing positive response on our part towards God's truth that brings grace which fuels our faith.


Grace = Undeserved Favor

The only response to Grace is Faith

Faith is not the gift of God
Eternal Life (Justification) is the Gift of God by Grace through Faith

Grace Teaches us to deny ungodliness How ?
by positive response towards the Word of God in our thinking
application of the Word of God through experience in our thinking .

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

https://expreacherman.com

you see, here is what many of you teach- that we are saved by faith through good works, and if you continue in faith and keep doing good works, you get grace. now, this sounds reasonable, it makes sense. but, one BIG problem, IT iS NOT BIBLICAL.

saved by grace, through faith, for good works is the Biblical truth. but, a lot of people really do not believe Paul, they think he " contradicts " Jesus, James, Peter, and John. ( he does not)

grace7 never leaves this truth, and you workers can't stand it.

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

Absolutely, as long as they stay faithful to Christ.
Colossians 1:21-23
And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel.

Thank God for eternal security.....

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.


Uttermost

pantelés: all complete, entire​

Original Word: παντελής, ές
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pantelés
Phonetic Spelling: (pan-tel-ace')
Short Definition: complete, forever, entirely
Definition: complete, entire, perfect, through all time.

 

[FranC]

Absolutely..........it is clear.....the number is plenteous that comes before the throne pushing what they peddle....a grace/faith infused with works to gain or keep salvation....Paul was clear in Galatians 1 and 3....such a dogma is false, contrary to what Paul taught and double cursed.......deceived fools believe it.<<< ACCORDING TO PAUL AND those are his words...not mine!

Here are Paul's words:


Colossians 1:20-23 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in [a]heaven.

21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,

22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—

23 IF indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, [c]was made a [d]minister.

IF you hold on to your faith, Jesus will be able to present you holy to the Father.

IF YOU HOLD ON TO YOUR FAITH.

Your faith should make you want to do everything Jesus taught.
THIS is what you are to hold on to. Jesus' teachings, by way of your faith.

 

[Stephen63]

There is no such thing as hyper grace.....this is a moronic misnomer invented by the workers for salvation...there is God's unsurpassable grace which saves and then out bounds our sin....now that is the end of the story!

As usual, you're wrong.

How in the world did you think you could get by with a statement like that?!?

Maybe it's because you think the BDF orbits around you? You sure have your group orbiting you in this thread.

Or maybe you're so much like God that you can say it, & that settles it?

With hypergrace spread all over the internet, how did you think you could just say that?.

Unless..... someone's so high-minded or mean he thinks others will just bow down to him.

Regardless of your reasons, that was just plain ridiculous & total nonsense..

Sorry, can't see it any other way.

 

[Stephen63]

I love the misnomers and fraudulent terms that they push and then their twisted, denied word of God that they peddle like a monkey dancing to a street organ......

Funny you should say that, considering your monkeys dance for you all the time.

 

[gb9]

As usual, you're wrong.

How in the world did you think you could get by with a statement like that?!?

Maybe it's because you think the BDF orbits around you? You sure have your group orbiting you in this thread.

Or maybe you're so much like God that you can say it, & that settles it?

With hypergrace spread all over the internet, how did you think you could just say that?.

Unless..... someone's so high-minded or mean he thinks others will just bow down to him.

Regardless of your reasons, that was just plain ridiculous & total nonsense..

Sorry, can't see it any other way.

hate to burst your bubble, but they are no " groups " working together behind the scenes, ( at least I am not part of one).

this may come as a shock to you , but- some of us do not think we are sinless. some of us understand what rightly dividing the Words of truth mean, some of us have no agendas, some of us have o interest In telling others how to live their lives, some of us just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and understand that the Gospel is not a behavior modification program.

 

[Sully]

Sorry, can't see it any other way.

The only thing you posted that is true.

 

[JIMBO43]

Here are Paul's words:


Colossians 1:20-23 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in [a]heaven.

21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,

22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—

23 IF indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, [c]was made a [d]minister.

IF you hold on to your faith, Jesus will be able to present you holy to the Father.

IF YOU HOLD ON TO YOUR FAITH.

Your faith should make you want to do everything Jesus taught.
THIS is what you are to hold on to. Jesus' teachings, by way of your faith.

i can think of holding onto your faith when your blazing with rage. i remmebr being like this once and i thought of God at the moment i was just about to grab someone by the the shirt collar.... my faith won and i backed down and turned the other cheek ........... i was blazing it was a diffacult day from start to finish..

 

[Sully]

Funny you should say that, considering your monkeys dance for you all the time.

Your an accuser poison Stephen. You know that right?

 

[JIMBO43]

Your an accuser poison Stephen. You know that right?

so are you then..

 

[Stephen63]

I agree gb9 ....but I think it is the other way around........faith is a response to grace.
And it is the ongoing positive response on our part towards God's truth that brings grace which fuels our faith.


Grace = Undeserved Favor

The only response to Grace is Faith

Faith is not the gift of God
Eternal Life (Justification) is the Gift of God by Grace through Faith

Grace Teaches us to deny ungodliness How ?
by positive response towards the Word of God in our thinking
application of the Word of God through experience in our thinking .

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

https://expreacherman.com

People think they can just say anything they want.

God gave a measure of faith to every person, & you say it's not a gift?

Did your expreacherman tell you that?

 

[Stephen63]

Absolutely, as long as they stay faithful to Christ.
Colossians 1:21-23
And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel.

Amen to that.

 

[Sully]

so are you then..

Exposing poison Stephens statements is not accusing it's definition.

 

[Stephen63]

Here are Paul's words:


Colossians 1:20-23 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in [a]heaven.

21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,

22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—

23 IF indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, [c]was made a [d]minister.

IF you hold on to your faith, Jesus will be able to present you holy to the Father.

IF YOU HOLD ON TO YOUR FAITH.

Your faith should make you want to do everything Jesus taught.
THIS is what you are to hold on to. Jesus' teachings, by way of your faith.

Exactly.

 

[mailmandan]

Absolutely, as long as they stay faithful to Christ.
Colossians 1:21-23
And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel.

As I already explained to you in post #21663 - The word "if" here is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith." - Steadfast (firm) (1476) hedraios - Sermon Index

That is, continuance would show that the person's faith is firmly established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Greek particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians mixed in with the group whose shallow, temporary belief withers away?

It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance here that they will be eternally saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow faith was not grounded in the gospel to begin with.

 

[Magenta]

so are you then..

So are you then. Monkey see monkey do? Hey JIMBO do you know there is a difference being being a FALSE accuser and being one who lays charges that are true?

 

[Stephen63]

hate to burst your bubble, but they are no " groups " working together behind the scenes, ( at least I am not part of one).

this may come as a shock to you , but- some of us do not think we are sinless. some of us understand what rightly dividing the Words of truth mean, some of us have no agendas, some of us have o interest In telling others how to live their lives, some of us just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and understand that the Gospel is not a behavior modification program.

Aaannd who are these people we've never seen before?