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God's church is under His authority, and given authority from God. And the church is full of men under this authority, to lead and instruct the church, Note Ephesians 4:11f; 1 Timothy 5:17 &c.
And? You show disdain for God's church and decree. Your disdain for men is really disdain for God's given orders and decrees. But of course, we're to listen to you, just not to "men." See how that works?
And? You show disdain for God's church and decree. Your disdain for men is really disdain for God's given orders and decrees. But of course, we're to listen to you, just not to "men." See how that works?
S
Another one is to tell Mormons that Joseph Smith gave his first book to my great (add 5 more greats there) grandfather, before he went west, and the book was passed down through the generations, (my ancestor like Joe, even though he was a bit weird), until it was no longer safe to keep. (Someone kept trying to steal it.) So, it was given to a library in Connecticut to keep with other rare books in a vault.
BTW, the first book didn't match his later books. His "visions" changed drastically.
BTW, the first book didn't match his later books. His "visions" changed drastically.
S
What's that mean savedtoast, that you trace the orgins of God back to "I am" and the Genesis story of Adam and Eve? Please explain what you mean? Secondly, please explain your comment, "Now as for Jesus?" What does that mean? What about Jesus, do you believe He is God?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Baptism is the vow taken to cement a marriage not the ring (an appeal to God for a good conscience). Without the vows a marriage does not exist. 1st Peter 3:21 does not describe baptism as an option but the point of salvation.
Baptism is like that. It saves you now - not because it removes dirt from the body but because it is the mark of a good conscience toward God. Your salvation comes through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (1st Peter 3:21 CEB)
The pronoun "it" refers back to the noun "baptism". It saves you.
Baptism is your commitment of a good conscience toward God by coming to Him on His terms, not ours. (Acts 2:38)
This is a stumbling block to the "faith alone" sects, hence bizarre replies such as post # 59 to such a simple verse as this.
Baptism is like that. It saves you now - not because it removes dirt from the body but because it is the mark of a good conscience toward God. Your salvation comes through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (1st Peter 3:21 CEB)
The pronoun "it" refers back to the noun "baptism". It saves you.
Baptism is your commitment of a good conscience toward God by coming to Him on His terms, not ours. (Acts 2:38)
This is a stumbling block to the "faith alone" sects, hence bizarre replies such as post # 59 to such a simple verse as this.
Salvation through faith, not works is a stumbling block to the salvation by "water and works" sects.
A man and a woman become united through their wedding vows and the ring symbolizes this. Just as we become united with Christ through faith and water baptism symbolizes this.
So, when Peter says that baptism saves you, he does not mean that it literally saves us in addition to faith in Christ; he means that baptism signifies our salvation through faith in Christ. Baptism is like the receiving of rings as tokens of the covenant. The rings, like baptism, is not what actually unites the hearts of two people, but is the formal acknowledgment of it.
The ring is not what causes the change in our marital status and neither does water baptism cause the change in our marital status to Christ, yet during the wedding ceremony, vows are exchanged, "with this ring I thee wed." The symbol can be used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what is confusing you. A FLOOD OF CONFUSION.
The Greek word "antitupon," as used in I Peter 3: 21, is "an adjective, used as a noun," and denotes, in the NT, "a corresponding type,” being “said of baptism." The circumstances of the flood, the ark and its occupants, formed a type, and baptism forms "a corresponding type," each setting forth the spiritual realities of the death, burial, and resurrection of believers in their identification with Christ. It is not a case of type and antitype, but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the corresponding type."
Noah was saved by the ark "through (via) water." Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ark. The ark is what both delivered and preserved them, the two aspects of “salvation.” Their “salvation” was typical of the salvation promised to the Christian. It pictured it. So also does Christian baptism picture salvation and reveal, symbolically, the gospel. The word “antitupon” identifies baptism as a figure. 1 Peter 3:21 does not say that baptism saves us in "any sense" other than as a figure. It is the figure of "the death, burial and resurrection of Christ by which we are literally saved."
The flood was a figure of baptism in that in both instances the water that spoke of judgment (in the flood the death of the wicked, in baptism the death of Christ and the believer). Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it depicts Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Water can only cleanse the flesh outwardly; it does not cleanse the heart from sin.
According to Greek scholar A.T. Robertson, Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh either in a literal sense, as a bath for the body, or in a metaphorical sense of the filth of the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience (Hebrews 9:13). Peter here expressly denies baptismal remission of sin.
A man and a woman become united through their wedding vows and the ring symbolizes this. Just as we become united with Christ through faith and water baptism symbolizes this.
So, when Peter says that baptism saves you, he does not mean that it literally saves us in addition to faith in Christ; he means that baptism signifies our salvation through faith in Christ. Baptism is like the receiving of rings as tokens of the covenant. The rings, like baptism, is not what actually unites the hearts of two people, but is the formal acknowledgment of it.
The ring is not what causes the change in our marital status and neither does water baptism cause the change in our marital status to Christ, yet during the wedding ceremony, vows are exchanged, "with this ring I thee wed." The symbol can be used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what is confusing you. A FLOOD OF CONFUSION.
The Greek word "antitupon," as used in I Peter 3: 21, is "an adjective, used as a noun," and denotes, in the NT, "a corresponding type,” being “said of baptism." The circumstances of the flood, the ark and its occupants, formed a type, and baptism forms "a corresponding type," each setting forth the spiritual realities of the death, burial, and resurrection of believers in their identification with Christ. It is not a case of type and antitype, but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the corresponding type."
Noah was saved by the ark "through (via) water." Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ark. The ark is what both delivered and preserved them, the two aspects of “salvation.” Their “salvation” was typical of the salvation promised to the Christian. It pictured it. So also does Christian baptism picture salvation and reveal, symbolically, the gospel. The word “antitupon” identifies baptism as a figure. 1 Peter 3:21 does not say that baptism saves us in "any sense" other than as a figure. It is the figure of "the death, burial and resurrection of Christ by which we are literally saved."
The flood was a figure of baptism in that in both instances the water that spoke of judgment (in the flood the death of the wicked, in baptism the death of Christ and the believer). Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it depicts Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death, burial and resurrection. Water can only cleanse the flesh outwardly; it does not cleanse the heart from sin.
According to Greek scholar A.T. Robertson, Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh either in a literal sense, as a bath for the body, or in a metaphorical sense of the filth of the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience (Hebrews 9:13). Peter here expressly denies baptismal remission of sin.
You are quite correct when you state, "A man and a woman become united through their wedding vows". A vow is a pledge, a solemn binding physical promise.
Depending on the version 1st Peter 3:21 describes baptism as a pledge, promise or vow. The verse does not describe baptism as a symbol or "ring" but a vow, without the vows there is no marriage. The flood was a symbol of baptism but baptism is a vow that binds the person to the marriage, not a symbol of the vow.
When Jesus insisted that He be baptized it was not as a "symbol" that He had fulfilled all righteousness but to fulfill all righteousness. "Jesus answered him. 'This is the way it has to be now. This is the proper way to do everything that God requires of us." (Matthew 13:15 GW) Jesus was not looking for a "symbol" from John the Baptist
Baptism is an action not the 'symbol' of an action. It is the pledge that is required of us to share in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Call it a work if you wish but the it in 1st Peter 3:21 is "what saves us now" and no grammar hanky-panky will change that.
Depending on the version 1st Peter 3:21 describes baptism as a pledge, promise or vow. The verse does not describe baptism as a symbol or "ring" but a vow, without the vows there is no marriage. The flood was a symbol of baptism but baptism is a vow that binds the person to the marriage, not a symbol of the vow.
When Jesus insisted that He be baptized it was not as a "symbol" that He had fulfilled all righteousness but to fulfill all righteousness. "Jesus answered him. 'This is the way it has to be now. This is the proper way to do everything that God requires of us." (Matthew 13:15 GW) Jesus was not looking for a "symbol" from John the Baptist
Baptism is an action not the 'symbol' of an action. It is the pledge that is required of us to share in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Call it a work if you wish but the it in 1st Peter 3:21 is "what saves us now" and no grammar hanky-panky will change that.
The flood was a symbol of baptism, yet it was not the flood that literally saved Noah and his family, but the ARK (Hebrews 11:7). Just as baptism itself does not literally save believers, but is a symbol of salvation in that it depicts Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death, burial and resurrection.
In verse 20, Peter had just spoken about the ark and goes on to say that there is a like figure, or a similar figure, which is baptism. The Greek word for "figure" is "antitupon." Vine, in his Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, defines the word as "a corresponding type." He says, "It is not a case of type and antitype but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the corresponding type." (Vol. 2, page 96). Cremer's Lexicon says the word signifies an "image or similitude." Thayer's Lexicon defines it as "a thing resembling another."
Dr. Kenneth Wuest, author of Word Studies in the Greek New Testament explains. "Water baptism is clearly in the apostle's mind, not the baptism by the Holy Spirit, for he speaks of the waters of the flood as saving the inmates of the ark, and in this verse, of baptism saving believers. But he says that it saves them only as a counterpart. That is, water baptism is the counterpart of the reality, salvation. It can only save as a counterpart, not actually. The author is merely using them as an illustration of the use of the word 'counterpart.' So water baptism only saves the believer in type.
Jesus did not get water baptized for the same reason that we get water baptized, so your argument is moot. All of God's righteous requirements for the Messiah were fully met in Jesus. This act of baptism on His part was a necessary part of the righteousness He secured for sinners. His perfect righteousness will be imputed to those who BELIEVE (Romans 4:4-6; Philippians 3:9). Water baptism is a work of righteousness and we are not saved by "works of righteousness" which we have done. (Titus 3:5)
As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out about baptism - "a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality."
Baptism is an action which is a work and we are saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:9).
The pledge is as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism. The symbol can be used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what is confusing you. A FLOOD OF CONFUSION. There is no grammar hanky-panky here, just a failure on your part to understand.
In verse 20, Peter had just spoken about the ark and goes on to say that there is a like figure, or a similar figure, which is baptism. The Greek word for "figure" is "antitupon." Vine, in his Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, defines the word as "a corresponding type." He says, "It is not a case of type and antitype but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the corresponding type." (Vol. 2, page 96). Cremer's Lexicon says the word signifies an "image or similitude." Thayer's Lexicon defines it as "a thing resembling another."
Dr. Kenneth Wuest, author of Word Studies in the Greek New Testament explains. "Water baptism is clearly in the apostle's mind, not the baptism by the Holy Spirit, for he speaks of the waters of the flood as saving the inmates of the ark, and in this verse, of baptism saving believers. But he says that it saves them only as a counterpart. That is, water baptism is the counterpart of the reality, salvation. It can only save as a counterpart, not actually. The author is merely using them as an illustration of the use of the word 'counterpart.' So water baptism only saves the believer in type.
Jesus did not get water baptized for the same reason that we get water baptized, so your argument is moot. All of God's righteous requirements for the Messiah were fully met in Jesus. This act of baptism on His part was a necessary part of the righteousness He secured for sinners. His perfect righteousness will be imputed to those who BELIEVE (Romans 4:4-6; Philippians 3:9). Water baptism is a work of righteousness and we are not saved by "works of righteousness" which we have done. (Titus 3:5)
As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out about baptism - "a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality."
Baptism is an action which is a work and we are saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:9).
The pledge is as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism. The symbol can be used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what is confusing you. A FLOOD OF CONFUSION. There is no grammar hanky-panky here, just a failure on your part to understand.
The flood was a symbol of baptism, yet it was not the flood that literally saved Noah and his family, but the ARK (Hebrews 11:7). Just as baptism itself does not literally save believers, but is a symbol of salvation in that it depicts Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death, burial and resurrection.
In verse 20, Peter had just spoken about the ark and goes on to say that there is a like figure, or a similar figure, which is baptism. The Greek word for "figure" is "antitupon." Vine, in his Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, defines the word as "a corresponding type." He says, "It is not a case of type and antitype but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the corresponding type." (Vol. 2, page 96). Cremer's Lexicon says the word signifies an "image or similitude." Thayer's Lexicon defines it as "a thing resembling another."
Dr. Kenneth Wuest, author of Word Studies in the Greek New Testament explains. "Water baptism is clearly in the apostle's mind, not the baptism by the Holy Spirit, for he speaks of the waters of the flood as saving the inmates of the ark, and in this verse, of baptism saving believers. But he says that it saves them only as a counterpart. That is, water baptism is the counterpart of the reality, salvation. It can only save as a counterpart, not actually. The author is merely using them as an illustration of the use of the word 'counterpart.' So water baptism only saves the believer in type.
Jesus did not get water baptized for the same reason that we get water baptized, so your argument is moot. All of God's righteous requirements for the Messiah were fully met in Jesus. This act of baptism on His part was a necessary part of the righteousness He secured for sinners. His perfect righteousness will be imputed to those who BELIEVE (Romans 4:4-6; Philippians 3:9). Water baptism is a work of righteousness and we are not saved by "works of righteousness" which we have done. (Titus 3:5)
As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out about baptism - "a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality."
Baptism is an action which is a work and we are saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:9).
The pledge is as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism. The symbol can be used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what is confusing you. A FLOOD OF CONFUSION. There is no grammar hanky-panky here, just a failure on your part to understand.
In verse 20, Peter had just spoken about the ark and goes on to say that there is a like figure, or a similar figure, which is baptism. The Greek word for "figure" is "antitupon." Vine, in his Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, defines the word as "a corresponding type." He says, "It is not a case of type and antitype but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the corresponding type." (Vol. 2, page 96). Cremer's Lexicon says the word signifies an "image or similitude." Thayer's Lexicon defines it as "a thing resembling another."
Dr. Kenneth Wuest, author of Word Studies in the Greek New Testament explains. "Water baptism is clearly in the apostle's mind, not the baptism by the Holy Spirit, for he speaks of the waters of the flood as saving the inmates of the ark, and in this verse, of baptism saving believers. But he says that it saves them only as a counterpart. That is, water baptism is the counterpart of the reality, salvation. It can only save as a counterpart, not actually. The author is merely using them as an illustration of the use of the word 'counterpart.' So water baptism only saves the believer in type.
Jesus did not get water baptized for the same reason that we get water baptized, so your argument is moot. All of God's righteous requirements for the Messiah were fully met in Jesus. This act of baptism on His part was a necessary part of the righteousness He secured for sinners. His perfect righteousness will be imputed to those who BELIEVE (Romans 4:4-6; Philippians 3:9). Water baptism is a work of righteousness and we are not saved by "works of righteousness" which we have done. (Titus 3:5)
As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out about baptism - "a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality."
Baptism is an action which is a work and we are saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:9).
The pledge is as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism. The symbol can be used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what is confusing you. A FLOOD OF CONFUSION. There is no grammar hanky-panky here, just a failure on your part to understand.
Regardless of why, the baptism of Jesus was a work of righteousness not a symbol of righteousness. Jesus did not come to John the Baptist looking for a symbol but simply to do what was required to be done.
Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn't save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves through Jesus Chris, who came back from death to life.
A. The waters of the flood symbolized baptism
B. Baptism is not simply a bath to remove dirt
C. Baptism is a request of a good conscience toward God
D. The request is what saves
Baptism is the vow that connects us to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Deal with it.
You have turned your particular understanding of the nature of salvation into a work. Those of the "faith only" sects see works of merit under every rock regardless of the Biblical evidence to the contrary. They have turned the acceptance of their particular understanding into a work and because of this, only they are worthy of salvation. They are puffed up by their "insight" and will not humble themselves to the simple acts that God has mandated for us all.
You are no more innocent of works of righteousness than I.
I am but willing to admit the "faith only" emperor is naked.
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It's not the mechanical act of getting water baptized that saves us--not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). This continues to keep you confused.
Your attempts at distorting 1 Peter 3:21 and teaching salvation by water baptism is not working. Baptism is a work and we are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9). Jesus was water baptized to fulfill all righteousness, so water baptism is a work of righteousness and we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done.. (Titus 3:5). Simple.
What did Jesus say in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? What did Peter say in Acts 10:43? What did Paul say in Acts 16:31? *What happened to baptism? Believing is clearly not a work that merits our salvation. Through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption). Baptism is a work which follows saving faith in Christ and if it's necessary for salvation, that would add merit on our part to our salvation because now we are saved through Christ's finished work plus our baptism. The pledge is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism.
Jesus did not get water baptized for the same reason that we do. Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death is the substance and baptism is the shadow. Without the substance there would be no shadow.
You still just don't get it.Neither do Roman Catholics or Mormons.Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). The answer of a good conscience (just as the remission of sins) is signified, rather than procured, in the waters of baptism. The symbol and the reality are closely related and the symbol is sometimes used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what continues to confuse you. A FLOOD OF CONFUSION.
The mechanical act of getting water baptized is not the appeal and is not what saves us. Period. The "appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" is what saves us and is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism. Deal with it.
It's you who teaches salvation by works, by "water and works" to be exact.
I am not of the "faith only" - (per James 2) sect (empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works) but of the faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone sect - Ephesians 2:8,9. It's not about being worthy of salvation. Does saved by grace through faith, not works, not of yourselves, it is the gift of God sound like we merit salvation and are worthy of salvation to you? Your alleged Biblical evidence amounts to distorting and perverting passages of scripture in a vain effort to "patch together" your so called gospel plan.
It's Campbellites and other works-salvationists who are puffed up by their "works based" false gospels and will not humble themselves in order to repent and believe the gospel.
I don't teach salvation by works, as you do. I'm not the one who is trying to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith.
The faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone emperor is fully clothed in Christ. Works salvation is NO SALVATION AT ALL. It's time for you to wake up and smell the coffee.
Your attempts at distorting 1 Peter 3:21 and teaching salvation by water baptism is not working. Baptism is a work and we are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9). Jesus was water baptized to fulfill all righteousness, so water baptism is a work of righteousness and we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done.. (Titus 3:5). Simple.
What did Jesus say in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? What did Peter say in Acts 10:43? What did Paul say in Acts 16:31? *What happened to baptism? Believing is clearly not a work that merits our salvation. Through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption). Baptism is a work which follows saving faith in Christ and if it's necessary for salvation, that would add merit on our part to our salvation because now we are saved through Christ's finished work plus our baptism. The pledge is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism.
Jesus did not get water baptized for the same reason that we do. Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death is the substance and baptism is the shadow. Without the substance there would be no shadow.
You still just don't get it.Neither do Roman Catholics or Mormons.Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). The answer of a good conscience (just as the remission of sins) is signified, rather than procured, in the waters of baptism. The symbol and the reality are closely related and the symbol is sometimes used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what continues to confuse you. A FLOOD OF CONFUSION.
The mechanical act of getting water baptized is not the appeal and is not what saves us. Period. The "appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" is what saves us and is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism. Deal with it.
It's you who teaches salvation by works, by "water and works" to be exact.
I am not of the "faith only" - (per James 2) sect (empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works) but of the faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone sect - Ephesians 2:8,9. It's not about being worthy of salvation. Does saved by grace through faith, not works, not of yourselves, it is the gift of God sound like we merit salvation and are worthy of salvation to you? Your alleged Biblical evidence amounts to distorting and perverting passages of scripture in a vain effort to "patch together" your so called gospel plan.
It's Campbellites and other works-salvationists who are puffed up by their "works based" false gospels and will not humble themselves in order to repent and believe the gospel.
I don't teach salvation by works, as you do. I'm not the one who is trying to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith.
The faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone emperor is fully clothed in Christ. Works salvation is NO SALVATION AT ALL. It's time for you to wake up and smell the coffee.
So are you telling me I cannot be saved if I am not baptized with water? I'm sorry but that is not biblical.
The criminal, hanging on the cross next to Jesus, was he baptized? I don't think he could have been baptized, at least not with water. Yet Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:43)
The criminal, hanging on the cross next to Jesus, was he baptized? I don't think he could have been baptized, at least not with water. Yet Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:43)
I believe the flood analogy is that the waters of the flood washed away the filth of the earth, just as baptism washes away the filth of sin.. Noah and his family were saved from sinful earth by the washing of the flood.
I think scripture is pretty clear that baptism IS the appeal... we want to have a clear conscience through Jesus death and resurrection, and the act of baptism is the appeal for that. If you simply say "I want a clear conscience", that isn't enough. Scripture says that baptism IS that appeal to God for a clear conscience.
I still firmly reject the wrongful notion that baptism is a "work".... it is an obedience to a command from God..
It is no more a "work" than physically 'praying the sinner's prayer' (wherever that came from)
I think scripture is pretty clear that baptism IS the appeal... we want to have a clear conscience through Jesus death and resurrection, and the act of baptism is the appeal for that. If you simply say "I want a clear conscience", that isn't enough. Scripture says that baptism IS that appeal to God for a clear conscience.
I still firmly reject the wrongful notion that baptism is a "work".... it is an obedience to a command from God..
It is no more a "work" than physically 'praying the sinner's prayer' (wherever that came from
)