Losing Salvation ?!

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PHart

Guest
#261
#261
Sully said:
You literally have to UN Believe. sounds hard.
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For you and me maybe it does. But not to someone with weak faith struggling with a besetting sin or struggling with faith itself that we can not relate to.

A big spurt of spiritual growth occurs when we learn to not project our own feelings and thinking onto others as if everyone has to act and feel they way we do because we do. I learned this lesson and it's a very valuable one. It's actually key to being able to love unconditionally as Jesus does, and which we are commanded to do.

Just because we're not tempted that way doesn't mean we do not have to make room for the struggling believer who is tempted to go back to the world in unbelief. Google 'Charles Templeton' some day when you have a spare moment.
 
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Sully

Guest
#262
#262
PHart said:
For you and me maybe it does. But not to someone with weak faith
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Can't read past the above line. Weak faith? Like smaller than a mustard seed?
 
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PHart

Guest
#267
#267
eternally-gratefull said:
Unbelief is a sin,

as john said, those born of God can not contain in an,

your following the traditional Roman Catholic view that people can fall from salvation, even if it is watered down, it is catholic
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Trust me, I'm not Catholic. But I understand how you may be only able to think people can only think in black and white and that if you're for or against any one part of a doctrine then you are for or against all of it. Not me. I value whatever aspect of any doctrine that is true. If I share the same belief that a person can lose their salvation with the Catholics then that is just something we agree on. That's all. That hardly makes me of the Catholic persuasion, lol. I discussed justification at length with a Catholic once and I assure you, I'm no Catholic.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#268
#268
PHart said:
If you want to consider yourself guilty of sleeping with your father's wife, or raping a woman (you are a male, right?), or burning a child in sacrifice to a god by simply stealing an apple, then that is your prerogative, don't include me in it, but I assure you God is not saying you are guilty of doing those things just because you stole a piece of fruit, or thumped your little brother on the head.
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Keep trying to hide from the truth,

i never said you you were a rapist or whatever, I said you were just as guilty as they are,

nice try though
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#270
#270
Sully said:
it's very small fart, and it grows into a mighty tree strong enough to become base1 for the birds of the air.
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amen, it does not shrink to nothing
 
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PHart

Guest
#271
#271
Magenta said:
Is the mustard seed the smallest of all seeds on earth?
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Does size mean it's too weak to grow into a large plant? Of course not. It happens all the time. But it's also true that surely there are weak mustard seeds that may not be able to grow because of that weakness, but that hardly means all mustard seeds are small, and therefore, weak, or vice versa.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#272
#272
PHart said:
Trust me, I'm not Catholic. But I understand how you may be only able to think people can only think in black and white and that if you're for or against any one part of a doctrine then you are for or against all of it. Not me. I value whatever aspect of any doctrine that is true. If I share the same belief that a person can lose their salvation with the Catholics then that is just something we agree on. That's all. That hardly makes me of the Catholic persuasion, lol. I discussed justification at length with a Catholic once and I assure you, I'm no Catholic.
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So that is twice now you have ignored john and the fact he said a child born of God can not continue in sin,

that shouod be a a red flag to you
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#273
Jul 3, 2015
58,815
28,222
113
#273
PHart said:
Does size mean it's too weak to grow into a large plant? Of course not. It happens all the time. But it's also true that surely there are weak mustard seeds that may not be able to grow because of that weakness, but that hardly means all mustard seeds are small, and therefore, weak, or vice versa.
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Is the mustard seed the smallest of all seeds on earth?
 
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Sully

Guest
#274
#274
PHart said:
Does size mean it's too weak to grow into a large plant? Of course not. It happens all the time. But it's also true that surely there are weak mustard seeds that may not be able to grow because of that weakness, but that hardly means all mustard seeds are small, and therefore, weak, or vice versa.
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logic is overrated. Oh for a lifetime of learning to come to the end of myself.
 
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PHart

Guest
#275
#275
eternally-gratefull said:
Keep trying to hide from the truth,

i never said you you were a rapist or whatever, I said you were just as guilty as they are,

nice try though
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YOU are guilty of those things if you really believe what you've been saying. That's the point I was making. Leave me out of it. You should live up to your own doctrine, and admit you are guilty of those things. Have you confessed your murder, and rape, and child sacrifice, and incest to God? I have not, because I have not done those things. But I do have things that I did that violated the law, just not all the things in the law.

I know there really are Christians who did these things in their past lives and I'm not making light of it at all if anyone reading this is one of them. God's grace is awesome and mighty to forgive the most heinous of sins. But come on folks, if you haven't done any of those heinous things you are not guilty before God of doing them. What you ARE guilty of in the law simply means you have failed to keep all the law, not 'you are guilty of committing all the crimes in the law'.
 
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PHart

Guest
#276
#276
eternally-gratefull said:
So that is twice now you have ignored john and the fact he said a child born of God can not continue in sin,

that shouod be a a red flag to you
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Correct. He has to deny the faith and no longer be born again in order to go back to his characteristically sinful life.

I'm hopeful that one day you will begin to just understand the argument, and perhaps later agree with it. But for now, let's just get you to understand the argument properly.
 
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PHart

Guest
#277
#277
Sully said:
it's very small fart, and it grows into a mighty tree strong enough to become base1 for the birds of the air.
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Yeah, we know that.

You're reading it to mean it's size equates to weakness, and therefore, all faith including weak faith results in OSAS. In contrast to what I'm saying that weak faith is what challenges the concept of OSAS. Weak faith can fail. In fact, that's most likely why it will fail...it's weak. That doesn't mean it wasn't faith at all. It means it was weak and could not endure to the end.
 
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Sully

Guest
#278
#278
PHart said:
Yeah, we know that.

You're reading it to mean it's size equates to weakness, and therefore, all faith including weak faith results in OSAS. In contrast to what I'm saying that weak faith is what challenges the concept of OSAS. Weak faith can fail. In fact, that's most likely why it will fail...it's weak. That doesn't mean it wasn't faith at all. It means it was weak and could not endure to the end.
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Ooops, now you have to define "weak faith" other than the ambiguous statement that "weak faith" is "unable to endure to the end"....kinda goes hand in glove with my post you responded to.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#279
#279
PHart said:
Correct. He has to deny the faith and no longer be born again in order to go back to his characteristically sinful life.

I'm hopeful that one day you will begin to just understand the argument, and perhaps later agree with it. But for now, let's just get you to understand the argument properly.
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denying faith, unbelief is sin, (according to the Bible it is the worst sin, equal with pride, both which are the root of all sin,

so if someone can continue in unbelief/sin, something a child of God can not do according to john, john is a liar, and nothing he says can be trusted, meaning he whole bible can not be trusted,

i hope you one day realize this.

John said what you claim is impossible, you say it does possible, who should we follow, you or John?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#280
#280
PHart said:
YOU are guilty of those things if you really believe what you've been saying. That's the point I was making. Leave me out of it. You should live up to your own doctrine, and admit you are guilty of those things. Have you confessed your murder, and rape, and child sacrifice, and incest to God? I have not, because I have not done those things. But I do have things that I did that violated the law, just not all the things in the law.

I know there really are Christians who did these things in their past lives and I'm not making light of it at all if anyone reading this is one of them. God's grace is awesome and mighty to forgive the most heinous of sins. But come on folks, if you haven't done any of those heinous things you are not guilty before God of doing them. What you ARE guilty of in the law simply means you have failed to keep all the law, not 'you are guilty of committing all the crimes in the law'.
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dude if your not going to listen to what people say, then just stop talking, your twisting my words,

i said you were as guilty,

If there are two men in jail, one is a murderer, one stole an apple, the both are in jail, one is not less guilty then the other, it does not mean the one who stole was a murderer,

im Gods court of law, both have the death penalty, whether you like it or not does not matter apart from Christ, both are headed to hell based on these sins alone.
 
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