Not By Works

royalscot · Jul 31, 2017

then why, are you responding to my post, if it dose not make any sense to you.

mind and repent of that freedom , so that verse 5 cuts you off.
Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.Galatians 5

royalscot · Jul 31, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

because of verse 5,you were not cut off by god , but by your choice and by doing so , verse 5 cuts you off. by returning to law. so you have the wrong foundation. etc

royalscot · Jul 31, 2017

49 But the one who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the stream broke against it, immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great."Luke 6

16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of GodEphesians 2: By Grace Through Faith

dcontroversal · Jul 31, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

That may be the case, but make no mistake there is but ONE correct message concerning salvation (the gospel) not two....one of the groups above is in error.......

eternally-gratefull · Jul 31, 2017

royalscot said:

They returned to what they really had faith in, because they never had true faith in God,

like a dog, they returned to their vomit. Because they were always a dog, and not made a new creature.

royalscot · Jul 31, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

take it up ,with your last post. the post you cannot understand, what being said to you.

the only vomit ,thats being rejected here, is wrong foundations, because of wrongly dividing scripture.

Meggido · Jul 31, 2017

stonesoffire said:

I just looked at my own post and I can see how someone would read it wrong. So let me correct.

Dcon was posting about the heart and sevenseas posted only part of the KJV of the scripture...as a man thinketh (leaving out in his heart) so is he...

I was affirming Dcons post with the whole of the scripture. Now Meggido, your version says "within himself" which in his heart would be symbolical for that phrase.

Again...affirming Dcon...

Also, Meggido...In a conversation with you in a pm...I said I would look further into things. I see no reason to change my thinking, so if you feel you need to disfellowship, then please obey your conscience.

no dis fellowship from me stones....

dcontroversal · Jul 31, 2017

graceNpeace said:

The most astounding thing about the legalists is that they seem not to understand the concept of "covenant" - a contract by any other name!
Neither do they understand that if one is NOT a party to a covenant (contract) then one is under no obligation to it!
And, they seem especially ignorant of WHO the parties to the New Covenant were, and what its terms were!
(Hint: no human being is a primary party to this covenant, human beings are only beneficiaries of this covenant!)

AMEN mate....

eternally-gratefull · Jul 31, 2017

royalscot said:

again, you make no sense at all, instead of trying to point me to things, just spit out what your trying to say I am not a mind reader.

My foundation is on christ, how that is a wrong foundation is beyond me

royalscot · Jul 31, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

take it up ,with your last post. the post you cannot understand, what being said to you.

the only vomit ,thats being rejected here, is wrong foundations, because of wrongly dividing scripture.

Meggido · Jul 31, 2017

dcontroversal said:

I believe covenant relationship best defines the nearly to good to be true Gospel and it's truth lies between reformed Covenant Theology and Wesleyan Arminianism Covenant theology......especially in regards to the doctrine of Apostasy....

The truth is a single coin with 2 sides....many here have tried to attempt to state what it is, but the OSAS crowd does not want discussion they want to be right...

God has and always will be a covenant God...The remedy is the free gift of Jesus Christ and him crucified, buried and risen....and the gift's eternal security is based on free choice to remain in covenant relationship or not....Jesus said in John 17.3 to KNOW him and Father are eternal life....

[SUP]3 [/SUP]This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

If God kept me against my wishes and my belief it would make God a man that would lie....it also means that Satan and 1/3 of the angels would have never fell<<<<<<<<<<<<that single fact should prove to OSAS people the fallacy of part of their entire message....The central theme to any creation of God is that they are given free choice to believe or not and at any time....Calvin got this wrong and so infected much of the body with the leaven of eternal security.....

To know God and Jesus Christ is more than mere faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross.....it is to become one with him....and his sacrifice....

When Jesus says I never knew you in Matt 7, it is the very same word he uses in John 17.3 and it means depart from me, because you were never one with me....

Many here pound their fists that they have faith given to them and know Jesus and Father and have zero to worry about.....that is certainly a correct, but only a one sided view of the coin of 2 parts......the other side asks.....Does Jesus and Father have faith in you and do they know you....

Nahum 1.7

The Lord is good,
A stronghold in the day of trouble,
And He knows those who take refuge in Him.

Someone posed this scenario to a group of us in Bible a study:

You have died and Jesus meets you at the gate of Paradise and asks why you belong. and why he should let you in.....Oh the answers that came out are much like some of the peeps on this thread...I am written in the book of life....he saved me...he did this, he passively worked in my life...a young minister schooled all of us....their answer?

"The fact he knows me is enough....."

Sully · Jul 31, 2017

Meggido said:

Can't speak for the many, but some have tried to attempt to state that it is an invitation to a gift that fulfills and completes what we cannot do for ourselves. Works? What is it? It's many things, but it cannot supplement the gift. That's the only point of contention, nothing more.

Meggido · Jul 31, 2017

graceNpeace said:

So tell us who the original parties to the New covenant were? The 9 provisions found for it in Scripture and where they are in scripture, if it is conditional/unconditional and if it has been fulfilled....and what conditions are placed upon the covenant....

(Hint: Some human beings were a very primary party tot eh covenant and gasp...still are)

Meggido · Jul 31, 2017

Sully said:

I am not talking works to keep or maintain salvation and never have...

the real point of contention is that Jesus and Father expect you do something with the gift after you receive it......and....that requires bearing fruit and abiding and knowing Jesus and Father....and not simply burying the talent until he comes back and then say...lookee what I got.....

Sully · Jul 31, 2017

Meggido said:

But that's the recoil that happens because no one can discern whether any of the works advocates will commit, as you just did, to that simple proclamation. It triggers a legitimate defense mechanism that true bible interpretation cannot abide with. If you read through this thread, many have asked for this simple clarity and no one will commit. So therefore, that leaves us with a sense of non committal which leads us to the assumption, based on logic, that the "workers" want to supplement salvation with something that is abominable.

royalscot · Jul 31, 2017

so is a time frame important, you get to see, how and why some, were rejection , by false interpretation of scripture.

the bible has two parts old testament and new testament. (for a reason. )

testament
ˈtɛstəm(ə)nt/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

1.
a person's will, especially the part relating to personal property.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"father's will and testament"[/COLOR]
2.
something that serves as a sign or evidence of a specified fact, event, or quality.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"growing attendance figures are a testament to the event's popularity"[/COLOR]
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]testimony, witness, evidence, proof, attestation; demonstration, indication,exemplification;
monument, tribute
"it is a testament to a decade of technological achievement"

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

covenant
ˈkʌv(ə)nənt/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

1.
an agreement.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"there was a covenant between them that her name was never to be mentioned"[/COLOR]
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]contract, compact, treaty, pact, accord, deal, bargain, settlement, concordat, protocol,entente, agreement, arrangement, understanding, pledge, promise, bond, indenture,guarantee, warrant; More

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
- [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"][/TD]
  [TD]
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]

verb
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

1.
agree by lease, deed, or other legal contract.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"the landlord covenants to repair the property"[/COLOR]
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]undertake, give an undertaking, pledge, promise, agree, contract, vow, guarantee,warrant, commit oneself, bind oneself, give one's word, enter into an agreement,engage; archaicplight (oneself)
"the landlord covenants to repair the property"

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us---for it is writtenGalatians 3:

Ariel82 · Jul 31, 2017

Meggido said:

For you it is.

For others not so much.

There isn't two "sides" to this discussion.

There are many because each poster has their beliefs.

Some beliefs most share. Others not so much.

For example, most agree that Jesus is God, but at least one poster disagrees.

Most agree that our Sabbath rest is found in Jesus and not keep Jewish like Sabbath on Saturday, but we have at least 10 people on this forum who disagree.

Some say you can lose salvation, Some say you can't but God will chastens you. Others say that God doesn't convict His kids of their sins but convince them of their righteousness?

Anyway the issues are more complicated than your statement implies.

I have found it best to listen and dialog as God moves us to speak with one another in love.

Meggido · Jul 31, 2017

Sully said:

Jesus did all the work for my ransom, deliverance and forgiveness.....I view that as my example of what is expected of me and my CHOICE when I chose to receive his free gift and follow him and forsake all....not to keep or maintain, but to abide and bear....

Most OSAS people I know and a few here do not view his gift as an example for them and their choice, they view it as insurance and a box to be checked....that hurts, but its what I see day in and day out....

Some workers here are completely off the rez and do endorse works based salvation to keep and maintain their salvation and righteousness

Most workers here are not classified as above workers and believe what I do but get drowned out by the "legitimate defense mechanism mentality"....

Sully · Jul 31, 2017

Meggido said:

Gifts are by definition not examples. OSAS is a trigger term, let's dispense with it.
1 Corinthians 1
8 He will sustain you to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And technically, you and I need that insurance and that box checked. It does not eliminate us from the equation, it's a completion. Now we can live in the confidence that He purchased.

Meggido · Jul 31, 2017

Ariel82 said:

For you it is.

For others not so much.

There isn't two "sides" to this discussion.

There are many because each poster has their beliefs.

Some beliefs most share. Others not so much.

For example, most agree that Jesus is God, but at least one poster disagrees.

Most agree that our Sabbath rest is found in Jesus and not keep Jewish like Sabbath on Saturday, but we have at least 10 people on this forum who disagree.

Some say you can lose salvation, Some say you can't but God will chastens you. Others say that God doesn't convict His kids of their sins but convince them of their righteousness?

Anyway the issues are more complicated than your statement implies.

I have found it best to listen and dialog as God moves us to speak with one another in love.

Funny thing, the nearly to good to be true gospel is not complicated, only defense makes it complicated...

Not By Works

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