Not By Works
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I watched Bill Johnson and Ken Copeland tell Marcus Lamb on Daystar and separately and about 3 months apart on Daystar fund raising show this....we are comfortable and not need in need of anything materially....we educate and teach so others can become like us.... sounds really spiritual right? In fact it is Biblical....
Rev 3.17 and in red....
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing........
Now the whole passage...
Rev 3.14-22
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. [SUP]16 [/SUP]So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, [SUP]18 [/SUP]I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. [SUP]22 [/SUP]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
One has to look past the emotionalism and hype to see that they teach...I urge evryone to check out how Bill Johnson was voted into Bethel in 1996....He got the job when he capitulated to the church and elder board and promised to teach and promote new wave revivalism and nothing else....This doctrine teaches the Gospel that must be preached around the world for the end to come is not about Jesus, him crucified, buried, resurrected and sitting on the right hand...it teaches the true gospel that must be preached around the world for the end to come is the gospel of birthing Holy Spirit outpouring through revivals called for and only identified under the leadership of only revivalist Apostles and Prophets...that the revivals , worship and sings, wonders and miracles will be the change agent for when the end comes for Jesus to return....This is nothing more than Kingdom or third wave theology....made popular by John Wimber and his Vineyard movement...Mike Bickle of IHOPKC was heavily influenced by Wimber and so was C. Peter Wagner, who added his own touches to it and formed the New Age Reformation movement which includes Bethel, IHOPKC, Vineyard movement churches, and many other publicly known prophets and Apostles of each church, for exmaple, Jesus Culture led by Banning Liebscher was the youth ministry of Bethel, but now is a church plant from Bethel...
NAR is not a tall part of WOF and in fact Wimber disliked Hagin and the WOF movement, because he did not think it was authentic Christianity...this is why you will never see NAR intermingle or be shoulder to shoulder with anyone form the WOF movement...
Rev 3.17 and in red....
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing........
Now the whole passage...
Rev 3.14-22
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. [SUP]16 [/SUP]So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, [SUP]18 [/SUP]I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. [SUP]21 [/SUP]He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. [SUP]22 [/SUP]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
One has to look past the emotionalism and hype to see that they teach...I urge evryone to check out how Bill Johnson was voted into Bethel in 1996....He got the job when he capitulated to the church and elder board and promised to teach and promote new wave revivalism and nothing else....This doctrine teaches the Gospel that must be preached around the world for the end to come is not about Jesus, him crucified, buried, resurrected and sitting on the right hand...it teaches the true gospel that must be preached around the world for the end to come is the gospel of birthing Holy Spirit outpouring through revivals called for and only identified under the leadership of only revivalist Apostles and Prophets...that the revivals , worship and sings, wonders and miracles will be the change agent for when the end comes for Jesus to return....This is nothing more than Kingdom or third wave theology....made popular by John Wimber and his Vineyard movement...Mike Bickle of IHOPKC was heavily influenced by Wimber and so was C. Peter Wagner, who added his own touches to it and formed the New Age Reformation movement which includes Bethel, IHOPKC, Vineyard movement churches, and many other publicly known prophets and Apostles of each church, for exmaple, Jesus Culture led by Banning Liebscher was the youth ministry of Bethel, but now is a church plant from Bethel...
NAR is not a tall part of WOF and in fact Wimber disliked Hagin and the WOF movement, because he did not think it was authentic Christianity...this is why you will never see NAR intermingle or be shoulder to shoulder with anyone form the WOF movement...
Source of information: A keyword search of the words Faith and Believe in the 4 Gospels in Bible Gateway Website:
I searched for both words under the KJV and the NASB versions:
KJV:
The word Believe is used:
Matthew (8)
Mark (15)
Luke (11)
John (85)
The Word Faith is used:
Matthew (16)
Mark (6)
Luke (18)
John (1)
NASB:
The word Believe is used:Matthew (8)
Mark (15)
Luke (10)
John (81)The Word Faith is used:
Matthew (16)
Mark (5)
Luke (17)
John (1)
A quick check of these verses indicate it was Jesus using the words....this means that Jesus talked more about believing than he did Faith....
When Jesus used the word faith, he was preparing to perform a miracle...and was either asking or correcting people about their faith in what he was going to do on their behalf...
When Jesus used the word believe or belief, he was asking or telling people what they should do in regards to his very ownself....
I searched for both words under the KJV and the NASB versions:
KJV:
The word Believe is used:
Matthew (8)
Mark (15)
Luke (11)
John (85)
The Word Faith is used:
Matthew (16)
Mark (6)
Luke (18)
John (1)
NASB:
The word Believe is used:Matthew (8)
Mark (15)
Luke (10)
John (81)The Word Faith is used:
Matthew (16)
Mark (5)
Luke (17)
John (1)
A quick check of these verses indicate it was Jesus using the words....this means that Jesus talked more about believing than he did Faith....
When Jesus used the word faith, he was preparing to perform a miracle...and was either asking or correcting people about their faith in what he was going to do on their behalf...
When Jesus used the word believe or belief, he was asking or telling people what they should do in regards to his very ownself....
Ariel,
If God tell you to do something, and you don't, are you still glorifying Him?
What you do now to glorify God --- Is that not a good deed, or a work?
What would YOU call it??
If we don't do something God wants us to do, is that not disobedience?
How does one glorify God by NOT doing what He commands?
If God tell you to do something, and you don't, are you still glorifying Him?
What you do now to glorify God --- Is that not a good deed, or a work?
What would YOU call it??
If we don't do something God wants us to do, is that not disobedience?
How does one glorify God by NOT doing what He commands?
Every denomination has something that another denomination doesn't agree with and then they feel it is their "right" to gossip about them publicly for it.
Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
2 Corinthians 12:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For I am afraid that perhaps when I come I may find you to be not what I wish and may be found by you to be not what you wish; that perhaps there will be strife, jealousy, angry tempers, disputes, slanders, gossip, arrogance, disturbances;
1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
Let those that are living in full revelation of every truth in the scriptures be the first to throw the stones at others in the body of Christ that we dis-agree with in some subject.
Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
2 Corinthians 12:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For I am afraid that perhaps when I come I may find you to be not what I wish and may be found by you to be not what you wish; that perhaps there will be strife, jealousy, angry tempers, disputes, slanders, gossip, arrogance, disturbances;
1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
Let those that are living in full revelation of every truth in the scriptures be the first to throw the stones at others in the body of Christ that we dis-agree with in some subject.
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Faith moved them from Goshen to the Reed Sea.....Fear & Belief made them cross it....lack of trust made them wander.....complete and continuing denial, disbelief and disobedience sentenced them to death in the wilderness and they did not enter into rest....and they never did....some teach they did....but only the second generation and Joshua and Caleb of the first did enter into rest.
I often wonder how many of us actually realize it takes two to argue, as well as, to tango.
No one can argue with you if you are not also arguing back at them.
Let's be careful about blaming the other guy for what we, ourselves, are gleefully perpetuating.
Now, realize that if your immediate response to what I've said contains a "but...", then there just might be something a little lacking with your ability to take control of your own emotions. You may be letting the other guy run more of your life than you are running.
Anyone here think they can do something positive with that knowledge?
No one can argue with you if you are not also arguing back at them.
Let's be careful about blaming the other guy for what we, ourselves, are gleefully perpetuating.
Now, realize that if your immediate response to what I've said contains a "but...", then there just might be something a little lacking with your ability to take control of your own emotions. You may be letting the other guy run more of your life than you are running.
Anyone here think they can do something positive with that knowledge?
That is what I say. Believe is of us...faith is a gift. I said Strongs says it is to entrust ones spiritual well being to another. One that you believe is truth.
Faith..
~Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Substance is assurance but Holy Spirit showed me that it's a substance in the spiritual realm. It has power with God. Moves Him towards us. It's why Paul talked about keeping in the faith...examining self to see if there there's lack.
Faith..
~Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Substance is assurance but Holy Spirit showed me that it's a substance in the spiritual realm. It has power with God. Moves Him towards us. It's why Paul talked about keeping in the faith...examining self to see if there there's lack.
The dreaded internet chat board rebuke.....now selling for $19.95 and if you respond now we will give an additional rebuke, and as our special gift to you, we will include 2 smaller sized corrections to go with your 2 rebukes, all for $19.95, that is a $59 dollar value , all for $19.95...
Now seriously...the body has no clue about correction, reproof, rebuke any more, because they have placed the entire responsibility for spiritual growth on God.... that and because the Holy Spirit is just a stamp of redemption and nothing more, they cannot receive anything coming from the Holy Spirit from another person and we call it judgement, slander, lies, malice, hate, anger, bitterness, causing strife and division.
This is because under grace we are to be graceful and let each person work it out on their own....the gift of the Pastor as shepherd in your life has been lost because of many things.....A consumer of Christianize going to the mega church, the average sized church or even the house church will not allow Holy Spirit led correction in their life from a truly called shepherd, because it means they have to take accountability and responsibility for themselves spiritually where God leaves off....Post conversion is covenant relationship and that means there is God part and a man Part....but we are not taught that any more....
The root cause of this travesty stems from the lack of a Biblical truth called practical or ongoing sanctification...there is no emphasis on holiness, because it is legalism, there is no emphasis on empowering grace, because I am not truly changed until the end...there is no emphasis placed on prayer, fating and renewing the mind to the Word of God, because there is no time...
This creates weak, thin skinned Christians that are defensive and actually duped into thinking they are being passively made spiritually mature....I do not not any kind of livestock that grows to full term from eating passive grass or hay....
I am grateful for the hard way I was brought up in the faith...I hate to say it, but many today probably could not stand to be around the Apostle Paul...he was known to be direct and to the point...I withstood Cephas to his face, because he stood condemned....for what? his hypocrisy.....
You pull a Paul like that today and it would cause the church to split...because as much as people talk, they have no real walk....because true crucifying of the flesh and its passions means something has to FULLY surrender and die....and that something is you....we do not teach surrender, we teach the cross did it all...no need to go tot he tomb and be risen into newness of life...no sir, no maam...stand gazing at the cross and stay there and never actually be who God needs you to be...
The greatest leaven in the body today is that after salvation, there is no personal accountability or responsibility on your part to spiritually grow or mature.....and if you happen to be a gift to the body that teaches this....you will never , ever be voted in or asked to lead or speak....
Instead we have people in vocation and all they do each week is get the bottles of milk ready, make sure the temperature is just right for each person and pat them on the head and give them a 35 minute feel good.....
Now seriously...the body has no clue about correction, reproof, rebuke any more, because they have placed the entire responsibility for spiritual growth on God.... that and because the Holy Spirit is just a stamp of redemption and nothing more, they cannot receive anything coming from the Holy Spirit from another person and we call it judgement, slander, lies, malice, hate, anger, bitterness, causing strife and division.
This is because under grace we are to be graceful and let each person work it out on their own....the gift of the Pastor as shepherd in your life has been lost because of many things.....A consumer of Christianize going to the mega church, the average sized church or even the house church will not allow Holy Spirit led correction in their life from a truly called shepherd, because it means they have to take accountability and responsibility for themselves spiritually where God leaves off....Post conversion is covenant relationship and that means there is God part and a man Part....but we are not taught that any more....
The root cause of this travesty stems from the lack of a Biblical truth called practical or ongoing sanctification...there is no emphasis on holiness, because it is legalism, there is no emphasis on empowering grace, because I am not truly changed until the end...there is no emphasis placed on prayer, fating and renewing the mind to the Word of God, because there is no time...
This creates weak, thin skinned Christians that are defensive and actually duped into thinking they are being passively made spiritually mature....I do not not any kind of livestock that grows to full term from eating passive grass or hay....
I am grateful for the hard way I was brought up in the faith...I hate to say it, but many today probably could not stand to be around the Apostle Paul...he was known to be direct and to the point...I withstood Cephas to his face, because he stood condemned....for what? his hypocrisy.....
You pull a Paul like that today and it would cause the church to split...because as much as people talk, they have no real walk....because true crucifying of the flesh and its passions means something has to FULLY surrender and die....and that something is you....we do not teach surrender, we teach the cross did it all...no need to go tot he tomb and be risen into newness of life...no sir, no maam...stand gazing at the cross and stay there and never actually be who God needs you to be...
The greatest leaven in the body today is that after salvation, there is no personal accountability or responsibility on your part to spiritually grow or mature.....and if you happen to be a gift to the body that teaches this....you will never , ever be voted in or asked to lead or speak....
Instead we have people in vocation and all they do each week is get the bottles of milk ready, make sure the temperature is just right for each person and pat them on the head and give them a 35 minute feel good.....