Losing Salvation ?!

[terry_newyork_usa]

What condition could change once someone responded to an altar call and said 'the sinner's prayer'?
1) Choose to live a lifestyle of sin.
2) Choose to reject Christ and not believe in Him anymore.
3) Choose to life a lifestyle of being lukewarm.
4) Choose to embrace heresy that denies the divinity of Christ or the trinity or other orthodox tenets of true faith.

What condition would change?

Are you all of a sudden going to be perfect and no longer in the need of grace?

and why do you refuse to respond to what I have said?

Can you show me were I was wrong? I said quite a bit there.

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

So verses in the Book of Hebrews only apply to the Jewish people that he was addressing, not us today.
Ya know, that is absolutely ridiculous and if you and others want to believe that, have at it, can't help ya.

I will post this again about Hebrews 10:26 as there are always new viewers in these threads and the same things come up concerning Heb. 10 and the "willful sinning."

Hebrews 10:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:26 can be a stumbling block if we don't take the context in which this passage was written.

Some times well intentioned people take Hebrews 10:26-29 out of context with the book of Hebrews.

Anyone can take an isolated scripture out of it's context and say anything they want. Here is an example in the scripture below - Ex 32:33. Anyone who has ever sinned is blotted out of God's book.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

This is truly stated in the OT but it is not the ultimate statement of truth. The work of Jesus's finished work on the cross trumps what is said in Ex. 32:33.

Obviously we need to view all scripture through the finished work of Christ. We don't take obscure verses and discount the abundance of clear scriptures on what our Lord has done for us.

Hebrews 10 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins.

Hebrews was written a few years before the temple system came crashing down in 70AD when it was trampled by the Roman army.

The "willful sinning" is after hearing the "knowledge" of the truth of Christ's sacrifice - those that go back to the temple sacrifices and do not receive Christ's work by faith - this is the wilful sinning being talked about - the rejection of Christ's sacrifice and blood for the forgiveness of all sins.

This is insulting the Spirit of grace. The Holy Spirit's work is to convict/convince/expose the world of their sin - which is unbelief in Christ's work. John 16:8-9

There is a vast difference between receiving the "knowledge" of the truth and "receiving the truth" which is Christ Himself.

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

So I suppose 2 Peter 2:20-21 is taken out of context as well and really doesn't apply:

[FONT=&quot] For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.[/FONT]

Some things cannot come from a change of mind after things have been put into being as an established truth.

Can someone by an "act of their will" or "changing their mind" un-born themselves from being a human being?

Can they one day say "I don't want to be a human anymore so I as an act of my will by changing my mind - I am un-borning myself" ( we would think there is something wrong with this person's mind and there is.. )

Can some one by "an act of their will" through the "changing of their mind" stop being a son/daughter to their father?

Of course not - they will always be the child of their father once they are born whether they like it or not.

We can no more by "an act of our will" un-born ourselves from God which Peter says we are born again of incorruptible seed which lives and abides forever.

We cannot "un-child" ourselves from being God's child because of Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

( we can become sick in our minds as the person that wants to "un-born" themselves as a human but the real us - the inner man of the heart that is in Christ - that inner man has his will entwined with God's perfect will because of union with Christ )

This is one of the reasons we need to "renew our mind" to align up with the spiritual truths that are in our new spirit in Christ.

We believe from our heart not in our head ( where our brain is )

Following God's commandments to us will be a natural result of being in Christ as we grow up in Him.

We are looking at what "we do" when we say that we lose salvation for going to heaven instead of what "Jesus has already done". It is a works-based doctrine that actually denies the work and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be with you and in you forever. Now, is Jesus a liar? That's a question to ask ourselves.

Our Father will perfect that which concerns us for it is He that is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. I'll trust His love in us to "guide us" through life. Phil. 2:13

There is also discipline of the Lord ( child-training in Greek - not "un-childing" them as children ) This proves that we are legitimate children of God.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

And of course, Hebrews 6:4-6 doesn't apply to us today either because it was written to Jewish people.

[FONT=&quot] For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.[/FONT]

Some things cannot come from a change of mind after things have been put into being as an established truth.

Can someone by an "act of their will" or "changing their mind" un-born themselves from being a human being?

Can they one day say "I don't want to be a human anymore so I as an act of my will by changing my mind - I am un-borning myself" ( we would think there is something wrong with this person's mind and there is.. )

Can some one by "an act of their will" through the "changing of their mind" stop being a son/daughter to their father?

Of course not - they will always be the child of their father once they are born whether they like it or not.

We can no more by "an act of our will" un-born ourselves from God which Peter says we are born again of incorruptible seed which lives and abides forever.

We cannot "un-child" ourselves from being God's child because of Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

( we can become sick in our minds as the person that wants to "un-born" themselves as a human but the real us - the inner man of the heart that is in Christ - that inner man has his will entwined with God's perfect will because of union with Christ )

This is one of the reasons we need to "renew our mind" to align up with the spiritual truths that are in our new spirit in Christ.

We believe from our heart not in our head ( where our brain is )

Following God's commandments to us will be a natural result of being in Christ as we grow up in Him.

We are looking at what "we do" when we say that we lose salvation for going to heaven instead of what "Jesus has already done". It is a works-based doctrine that actually denies the work and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be with you and in you forever. Now, is Jesus a liar? That's a question to ask ourselves.

Our Father will perfect that which concerns us for it is He that is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. I'll trust His love in us to "guide us" through life. Phil. 2:13

There is also discipline of the Lord ( child-training in Greek - not "un-childing" them as children ) This proves that we are legitimate children of God.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What condition could change once someone responded to an altar call and said 'the sinner's prayer'?
1) Choose to live a lifestyle of sin.
2) Choose to reject Christ and not believe in Him anymore.
3) Choose to life a lifestyle of being lukewarm.
4) Choose to embrace heresy that denies the divinity of Christ or the trinity or other orthodox tenets of true faith.

No one is saved by going to an alter call. They are saved by true repentance and true faith.

Study Johns epistles, it will answer all your questions.

 

[RickyZ]

I cannot understand how a truly born again disciple of Jesus will ever get to a point where he starts denying Christ as Lord and Savior. That would make no sense to me.

It makes absolutely no sense. And yet it happens.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It makes absolutely no sense. And yet it happens.

it does? Who has done it? and why?

 

[RickyZ]

I have 2 people in my immediate family who have done just this. Why? Because they did not discern deception and fell for lies.

 

[Gabriel2020]

You was decieved. They never belonged to Jesus. That is why they left or turned back

 

[notuptome]

sanctification, which is necessary for eternal life.
"sanctification and its end, eternal life." - Romans 6:22

Where did you come up with this?

You have taken your proof text out of context, way out of context.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have 2 people in my immediate family who have done just this. Why? Because they did not discern deception and fell for lies.

or they never had faith to begin with, and because of, it, they did not understand what they could have had.

 

[RickyZ]

You was decieved.

Prods like this get you put on ignore. Please make your point without the personal attack.

 

[notuptome]

I have 2 people in my immediate family who have done just this. Why? Because they did not discern deception and fell for lies.

Is it possible that they were just pretending? They may have been deceiving themselves and even you but you know that God is not deceived. It could be possible that they only quit playing Christian when they grew bored with the whole idea.

I do not know them but I do know God and God does not permit men to lose their salvation. 1 Cor 5:1-8 Paul addresses such an issue and does not condemn them but places them into Gods hands for judgment. There are always consequences for sin but the consequences may not always be eternal condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

One of them, sure I can see that he was never 'in it to win it'. But the other was the biggest Jesus freak you'd ever meet. Hard to fake that one.

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

You can clearly see the reference and you can clearly see what it says. And if that is not enough:
Hebrews 12:14 - "holiness without which no one will see the Lord."

Where did you come up with this?

You have taken your proof text out of context, way out of context.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

Exactly, that why it says in 1 John that those who practice sin (my #1 in list above) do not know Him, and have forfeited eternal life. Keep in mind he's talking to Christians here.

No one is saved by going to an alter call. They are saved by true repentance and true faith.

Study Johns epistles, it will answer all your questions.

 

[Zi]

This is what I said a while ago.. none of us were present to hear any portion of the Bible or letters when written.. so by his reasoning we can dismiss what we want.. God can speak a word, have a message and it transcend time and culture

So verses in the Book of Hebrews only apply to the Jewish people that he was addressing, not us today.
Ya know, that is absolutely ridiculous and if you and others want to believe that, have at it, can't help ya.

 

[notuptome]

One of them, sure I can see that he was never 'in it to win it'. But the other was the biggest Jesus freak you'd ever meet. Hard to fake that one.

His zeal may have been an effort to convince himself. If a person does not get good and lost before they accept Christ then it's hard to see evidence of the Holy Spirit bringing conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment.

John 16:7-11

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

You can clearly see the reference and you can clearly see what it says. And if that is not enough:
Hebrews 12:14 - "holiness without which no one will see the Lord."

If we are to be holy or righteous it must be because of Christ and not ourselves.

Salvation is contingent only upon the grace of God and the imputed righteousness of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One of them, sure I can see that he was never 'in it to win it'. But the other was the biggest Jesus freak you'd ever meet. Hard to fake that one.

I think Judas would show us that is not true.

Either way, I would not judge their salvation. I hope you are not.. Only God knows.