Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Not very convincing.
Does it have a name?
Does it have a website?
Or is it one of those secret society brotherhoods?
It has a name, but I'm not giving out personal information to it's location. It's not a secret society. It's a Christian church, that is similar to a Baptist church. My church does not deny the Deity of Christ or teach salvation by works. My church also does not get hung up on legalistic prescriptions.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I wonder How many people understand what you just said?

and how many will twist your words to mean that you are against people living morally upright and godly lives?
well you already saw frans reaction.. It is sad that we can not have a decent conversation. And people do not try to really get to the point of really trying to understand what others believe
 
Nov 22, 2015
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If we think that keeping the Sabbath means what we do or don't do on a certain day - whether Saturday or Sunday - we have missed Christ Himself who is our true Sabbath. The Old Testament view of the Sabbath is a mere shadow of the real thing - which is Christ Himself.

I encourage you to look into the New Covenant and you will begin to experience the true Sabbath rest that the Old Testament alludes to - and it is Christ Himself.


If anyone comes with the message that "You must now follow the law of Moses as in observing the Sabbath or feasts days - if you do not - then you are dis-obeying God and sinning."....

..if you hear this - run from it because it is an anti-Christ belief system just like the Judaizers that came in to the Galatians and tried to get them to follow the law of Moses only their route was by circumcision.

Some do it by eating certain foods only which is a sign of the those falling away from the faith ( 1 Tim. 4:1-5 )

Paul said that he did not stand for the Judaizers message for one hour so that the truth would remain with them. Gal. 2:5

Galatians 2:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

I do not view all Sabbath day adherents as all the same.

As I have said before - there are many that are of authentic Jewish descent and they like their traditions but they do not say that others need to observe the Sabbath or feasts as in the law of Moses or you are dis-obeying God and sinning.

They observe these things to see Christ as the fulfillment of them - not as something they "need" to do now or they are sinning and dis-obeying God. They see them as "shadows" of the real substance which is Christ Himself.

This group has excellent teachings on how Christ has fulfilled the Law and show Christ in every part of the Old Testament. Jesus said that all the scriptures speak about Him.

This group of believers are a major blessing to us in the body of Christ and are not Judaizers such as Paul encountered and that are also in the extreme sects of Hebrew Roots or Sabbath observers as in the Old testament way that say believers in Christ must "observe the Sabbath and the feasts like in the law of Moses - or they are dis-obeying God and sinning".

Those - run away from as fast as you can! - but do not put all Hebrew Roots or Sabbath observers people in the same boat as the extreme sects because they are not the same.
 
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Well late my end friends.

At the very least we should all be like the faithful Bereans and study the Word of God asking Jesus to see if these things are so. This is my prayer for you all including myself that we may all be ready for when Jesus returns. God is not willing that any of us should be lost. Time is short. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. Time to rest my end of the Globe. Wishing you all love, Joy and Peace in the Holy Ghost. To him who loves us and washed us in His own blood. To him be all glory. AMEN. :)
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
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It has a name, but I'm not giving out personal information to it's location. It's not a secret society. It's a Christian church, that is similar to a Baptist church. My church does not deny the Deity of Christ or teach salvation by works. My church also does not get hung up on legalistic prescriptions.
It sounds as though you live in fear.
I'm sorry to hear that.
I hope you can overcome it some day.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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No can do.
Mark of the beast.
Revelation.

What IS the truth MMD?

Do you think only YOU have the truth?

Truth is not a thing, it's a person.
If YOU trust so much in JESUS, as you and Others on this thread claim,
then by all means TRUST IN HIM.

Are you another BOOK PERSON, Like Dcon??
Do you believe your doctrine saves you...

OR

Do you TRULY believe JESUS saves you?

You see what the difference is between me and you and Others that CLAIM to believe in grace but really do NOT...

I REALLY believe JESUS is going to save me - not my doctrine, and not my "correct beliefs" as UnderGrace would say.

Everone here should thank God Almighty EVERY DAY that their DOCTRINE does not save them, but that JESUS does!!
I trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. That's not what I'm hearing from you or your new friend. You are both hung up on works for salvation.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Let's be fair here Mr. Mailman, tell us what church you go to so we can compare it to the SDA.

not to be mean, But would it not be better if they just both shared their belief, that way we can judge forourselves without any preconceived notions of what they believe.

I think that is one of the problems here..
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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It sounds as though you live in fear.
I'm sorry to hear that.
I hope you can overcome it some day.
I don't live in fear, yet I still would not give out my personal information over the internet either. It sounds like you are not interested in a civil discussion. Moving on.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
I always envisioned the early church as a big family...coming together and eating and fellowshipping on any day God allowed them to gather.

I think back to when Jesus fed 5000 people and wonder ....what day of the week do you think that was? Probably not Saturday.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Those weak in faith will abstain from meat and keep the Sabbath. God says it's okay for them to abstain from meat or keep the Sabbath for we shall each answer to God upon Judgement day. It is also okay to NOT KEEP the SABBATH (but to value each day equally) and to eat meat. God gives us that freedom in Christ.

******
Romans 14 ►
English Standard Version
Do Not Pass Judgment on One Another

1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own mastera that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. 9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confessb to God.”

12So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
HOW COULD ETERNALLY GRATEFUL AND GRACE GIVE A LIKE TO THIS

WHEN YOU ARE DISAGREEING WITH THEM????

You're right Ariel.
But what a mystery this thread is.

Maybe EG and Grace need to read the above again...

Maybe they could leave LGodF alone about HIS day of Worship if they're SO SURE that THEY are doing the right thing by worshipping on Sunday?
 
Apr 30, 2016
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I always envisioned the early church as a big family...coming together and eating and fellowshipping on any day God allowed them to gather.

I think back to when Jesus fed 5000 people and wonder ....what day of the week do you think that was? Probably not Saturday.
Why do you think it wasn't Saturday?
Jesus said the Sabbath is made for man,
Not man for the Sabbath.
 
Z

Zi

Guest
But what does this All sufficient entail exactly? Because you point folks to many websites and if Jesus is enough or all it takes then why all the man authored sites? Scripture alone should suffice in directing them
I trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. That's not what I'm hearing from you or your new friend. You are both hung up on works for salvation.
 
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Ariel82

Guest

not to be mean, But would it not be better if they just both shared their belief, that way we can judge forourselves without any preconceived notions of what they believe.

I think that is one of the problems here..
Yeah that would be helpful.


Still wondering if LGF believe that Jesus condemns anyone who doesn't keep the seventh day SABBATH?

I know JaumeJ keeps the Sabbath and others on this forum do also but they don't condemn others For not observing it as they do. Nor do they believe God will condemn them.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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Why do you think it wasn't Saturday?
Jesus said the Sabbath is made for man,
Not man for the Sabbath.
If you knew anything about the laws governing the Sabbath it would be self-evident that that event could NOT have happened on the Sabbath else everyone participating would have been in breach of the Sabbath!
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Notice that Jesus said to these people that were supposedly "doing good works". - He never knew them. Jesus knows His sheep.

Works do not save a person nor do they "keep one saved". Jesus Himself is the Savior. We do not save ourselves.

Believers "do the will of the Father" by believing in Christ's work of grace through faith alone - not by what they do or don't do.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

[SUP]22 [/SUP] "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

[SUP]23 [/SUP] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'


Lawlessness is seeking to replace God and His activity in Christ with our own activity - no matter how good it appears to be on the outside and "works" are included in this truth.

When we start to live conscious of the Lord as our righteousness, we will begin to manifest outwardly His life of righteousness that is already in us.

From the inside out, genuine good works, obedience, holiness and love will flow unabated out of an authentic relationship with our loving heavenly Father. His life will manifest to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

We are "living epistles" read by all men.


There is a prescribed order of victory in the New Covenant. Until the believer sees his death on the cross with Jesus, he cannot experience Christ as his life as a new man in Christ. - the new creation.
Do you know what hypocrisy mean? You talk about genuine good works, OBEDIENCE, holiness, love but do you practice these things? Do you really obey Jesus whom you call your Lord? If He is your Lord then you should be His servant. Why then do you make Him do all the work as if it's the other way around? Can you answer and explain to me in all honesty your view on this? It's ok if you don't want to respond, i'll understand.

Jesus was seeking for GENUINE obedience in the passage below but the man turned and walked away.

Matthew 19:16-26 The Rich Young Man Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

New International Version 1984 John 6:66-67 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. “YOU DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE TO, DO YOU?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

IF YOU HAVE GENUINE LOVE FOR GOD YOU WOULD OBEY HIS COMMANDS(1john 3:16-18 & 5:1-3)AND TEACH OTHERS TO DO THE SAME(mat 28:19-20).

HERE'S WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DISOBEDIENT...

Acts 5:1-11 Ananias and Sapphira Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet. Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.” When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?” “Yes,” she said, “that is the price.” Peter said to her, “How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.” At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

ARE YOU ONE OF THOSE WHO HAVE A GENUINE LOVE AND OBEDIENCE?

1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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The writings of the New Testament were compiled long after Christ ascended to the right hand of power. My concerted study of the NT has always been teh Gospels with the letters to various assemblies and their particular problems hold the position of being more historical than as dirct from Jesus.. After all the writings of the Epistles were not compled as one Book of the NT for at least a century after.

Until that time the writings consisted of teh Tanakh, and it was good enough to reveal Jesus christ to new believers and train them well in the history of God's Word until and including Christ's first advent.

NO believer of Jesus Christ, Who, not under the law, observed the Seventh Day on the Seventh Day, believes it has been changed to the First Day. Whether it be Apostles, Paul, the Pope, Martin Luther, or any other fleshly teacher.

Nowhere will you find that God has changed the order of His work and Rest resulting in the creation, nowhere. Do not sayotherwise for it is not changed.


Fran,
The early church fathers and historical writers of the first century, not to mention the apostles, all spoke of the believers getting together to break bread (and worship, we presume) on the first day of the week... the day that Christ rose from the dead....

The RCC didn't start that practice, they continued it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
HOW COULD ETERNALLY GRATEFUL AND GRACE GIVE A LIKE TO THIS

WHEN YOU ARE DISAGREEING WITH THEM????

You're right Ariel.
But what a mystery this thread is.

Maybe EG and Grace need to read the above again...

Maybe they could leave LGodF alone about HIS day of Worship if they're SO SURE that THEY are doing the right thing by worshipping on Sunday?

smh,

Fran give it up. It is evident you have no idea what EG believes.

I worship God every day of the week, Church is not for worship. Man made up that idea, The Early church met in homes, they broke bread, they fellow shiped. they prayed, and they reasoned with each other from the word. Some of the church met daily, Not just on the first day of the week or yesterday. They did not meat in these extravagant holy places. they did not do all these traditional ceremonies and all this stuff modern day churches do. That did not start until the roman catholic church was started.

oh and by the way, I meet with my churhc family multiple times a week.. So please. do not try to think you know me.



 
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Ariel82

Guest
But what does this All sufficient entail exactly? Because you point folks to many websites and if Jesus is enough or all it takes then why all the man authored sites? Scripture alone should suffice in directing them
If scripture is enough...then why do people bother talking at all? Why not just quote scriptures 24/7?