Works With Faith Does Not Make Saving Faith

Enow · Aug 6, 2017

There is a saying going around about faith without works is how we are saved but works must accompany faith to make that faith in Jesus Christ as saving faith.

I quote the scripture below of the faith in Jesus Christ in how we are saved without works as that faith can never be vindicated by our works.

Colossians 1:[SUP]20 [/SUP]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled[SUP] 22 [/SUP]In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:[SUP] 23 [/SUP]If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.....[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Faith in Jesus Christ without any of our works is saving faith for He is sufficient in bringing us Home by His righteousness alone. Works have its place and it is profitable for men to do them, but it has nothing to do with our salvation nor vindicating our faith to make it saving faith in Jesus Christ.

Titus 3:[SUP]4 [/SUP]But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;[SUP] 7 [/SUP]That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

There is a race to be run, but not for our salvation and neither for making our faith with works a saving faith. It is for the high prize of our calling to be received by Him at the pre trib rapture event as a vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,[SUP] 2 [/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Corinthians 9:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.[SUP] 25 [/SUP]And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.[SUP] 26 [/SUP]I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:[SUP]27 [/SUP]But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

No saved believer would want to be found in iniquity when the Bridegroom comes for they will be left behind as castaways to be received later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

2 Corinthians 5:[SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

1 Peter 4:[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? [SUP]18 [/SUP]And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? [SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

We can trust our faithful Creator in doing a good job in keeping the souls of His unrepentant saints that shall be left behind to suffer the coming fire on the earth and the subsequent great tribulation as a result.

Running that race is not for salvation, but for living that reconciled relationship with God through trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd in helping us to abide in His words in following Him as His disciples to bear fruit so that our joy may be full. You can only be in that race by having been saved by Him....that includes those in that race that are not running at all, and even those whom have fallen away from the faith. Unless carnal believers and former believers repent with His help before the Bridegroom comes which He can appear at any moment, they run the risk of being left behind at the pre trib rapture event to be received later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

So do not look to works to justify nor vindicate your faith in Him to make that faith in Him saving faith. Look to Him.

1 John 3:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.....[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Do not divide your singular hope in Christ with any works to seek to justify your faith in Him as saving faith, because our hope rests in Him on that finished work on the cross as He will keep us abiding in Him & present us faultless to His glory.

Jude 1:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

It is important to lean on Him to do good works as it is profitable unto men, but it does not make our faith in Him as saving faith. Jesus has saved us for all those that had come to Him and believed in Him. That is His glory.

Indeed, by trusting Him as our Good Shepherd, we are trusting Him to finish His work in us which is by His workmanship is how we are following Him and doing good works wherein no man can boast, but of the Lord because that is His glory too.

Ephesians 2:[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

MattforJesus · Aug 6, 2017

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this Seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Were they chosen,and you will know them by their fruits,if they act like Christ.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money,material possessions): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith.

1Ti 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
1Ti 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Blain · Aug 7, 2017

Faith and works are two sides of the same coin you cannot have one without the other. I mean think of a tree, if it only got water but not sun it would drown if it only got sunlight but no water it would shrivel now say the soil is God it is good soil and the tree is us the sunlight is faith and the water is works, based on this how do you think faith and works is?

Nehemiah6 · Aug 7, 2017

Enow said:

Whether you wish to use the term "vindicated" or "confirmed", the fact remains that good works are the outward proof of saving faith. They do not contribute to your justification but they definitely play a role in your sanctification. Therefore we must be very careful in how this is presented to someone who may be struggling with the role of good works in our salvation.

Scripture makes it crystal clear that we are saved by grace through faith UNTO good works (Ephesians 2:8-10):

SALVATION IS BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

GOOD WORKS DO NOT SAVE

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

GOOD WORKS PROVE THAT WE ARE SAVED

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Enow · Aug 7, 2017

MattforJesus said:

Thy first works is believing in Him. That is the light of Christ that lights our way to rest in Him & His promises to us for all things, including the power to run that race by the grace of God as His disciples in abiding in Him & His words so that our joy may be full. Believing in Him has saved us which is how we are in that race, but how we run that race shall be judged, but we do not run to make it saving faith.

Blain said:

Faith in Jesus Christ without works is what that foundation made of. It is the works on that foundation that shall be judged, including any work of iniquity that deny Him by that faith which is without works that has made up that foundation.

Nehemiah6 said:

Saved believers should walk in good works, but not every saved believer will which is why the foundation will remain even if all their works gets burned up, including believing that they need works to make their faith in Jesus Christ a saving faith.

Faith in Jesus Christ without works is saving faith.

Colossians 1:[SUP]20 [/SUP]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled[SUP] 22 [/SUP]In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:[SUP] 23 [/SUP]If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Dare any one insult Jesus Christ that what He did on the cross was not good enough for us to simply believe in Him for?

Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.....[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

To believe that works is needed for that faith in Him to become saving faith is to deny that He is able to save any one on their deathbeds.

Titus 3:[SUP]4 [/SUP]But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;[SUP] 7 [/SUP]That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

There is a race to be run, but not for our salvation and neither for making our faith with works a saving faith. It is for the high prize of our calling to be received by Him at the pre trib rapture event as a vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin.

Can any one look to any one good work after they have been saved to say they have saving faith when they can fall away thereafter?

That foundation remains even in former believers which is why even they are called to depart from iniquity by looking to the author & finisher of our faith for help to discern the lies that turned them away from Him so they can believe in Him again for He still abides in them even if they believe not any more as that foundation remains as it is without works.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Once again, faith in Jesus Christ without works is saving faith. To boast in works to make that faith in Him as saving faith is to deny Him as sufficient to be saving faith. You can only be in that race as saved believers. How we run or not run, shall be judged as to whether we be received by Him at the pre trib rapture event which has to be His glory; not ours.

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]29 [/SUP]That no flesh should glory in his presence.[SUP]30 [/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:[SUP]31 [/SUP]That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

John146 · Aug 7, 2017

Blain said:

Yes, I agree with you here that faith and works go together. That is why we are not justified by our own individual faith, but the faith of Jesus Christ upon believing the gospel.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 3:21-22 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The difference in the doctrine is one word. The righteousness of God was on display at the cross of Jesus Christ. Christ was obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Amen. Christ has finished all the work needed for righteousness and justification. We must simply believe.

Stephen63 · Aug 7, 2017

Ephesians 2

8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

To get saved requires no works at all.

But what about afterward? What do we do with these scriptures? Explain them away?
Mark 1
14Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, 15and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

Matthew 21:32

New Living Translation
For John the Baptist came and showed you the right way to live, but you didn't believe him, while tax collectors and prostitutes did. And even when you saw this happening, you refused to believe him and repent of your sins.

Matthew 3:8

New International Version
Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.

New Living Translation
Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God.

English Standard Version
Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance.

New American Standard Bible
"Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;

Acts 26:20

New International Version
First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.

New Living Translation
I preached first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that all must repent of their sins and turn to God--and prove they have changed by the good things they do.

English Standard Version
but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

Berean Literal Bible
but both first to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, and all the region of Judea, and to the Gentiles, I kept declaring to repent and to turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance.

New American Standard Bible
but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.

After we're saved we're required to show fruit of repentance..... works.

To be saved through faith, we're to continue to believe in Christ, not believe once & never believe again.

James 2

14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. 24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

When a christian has dead faith, they can NO LONGER live by faith.

Works are the evidence of living faith..... there's no other way to prove faith.

No proof, no faith.

No faith, no living by faith.

No living by faith, no salvation.

No, we don't receive salvation by our works. But without works we can't prove we're saved to God, to others, or to ourselves.

Enow · Aug 7, 2017

Blain said:

By saying faith and works are two sides of the same coin that you cannot have one without the other.... is the same as saying faith in Jesus Christ without works does not save any one. That is a work of iniquity denying Him as able to save without any added work from us.

By your analogy.. to make it Biblical...and in keeping the faith in Jesus Christ without our works added to it, the soil is the believer.... and the good soil is the one that receives the rain ( living water ) wherein life had flourished whether the day ( our lives ) is sunny or not..... but not every believer will permit to leave that eternal life in that good soil without briers & thorns as this temporary life ( the winds & storms of our lives ) will bring about works of the flesh ( seeds of the briers & thorns ) in spite of the living water sustaining that eternal life in the good soil. It is by believing in Him as our Good Shepherd, then the living water will mortify the deeds ( the briers & the thorns ) of the body of the believer ( the good soil ) so that it can bear fruit, but not every saved believer will apply believing in Him for the living water to do that.

And yet the living water is still in that good soil waiting for them to believe in Him to be their Good Shepherd to do that. That has nothing to do with making faith as saving faith when the living water is in the soil that had already received life. So it is not about salvation when the living water had been received, but about discipleship.. in how that believer runs that race by faith in Jesus Christ or not as that believer can only mortify the deeds of the body by the Spirit of Christ.

Salvation is without our works because what He has done on the cross is sufficient that by believing in Him is how we are saved.

John146 said:

John146, I am not sure why you are agreeing with Blain when what you had posted opposes what he was sharing. His stance was not on the work of Christ as being the same side of the coin with faith, but the works of the believer ( water ) to be added to the faith in Christ in making that faith in Christ saving faith.

Believing in Him is also the living water. Not our works as something we need to add and keep adding for that faith to be saving.

I could say that our first work is believing in Him and that is how we are saved, but I should add that our believing in Him is the work of God as well ( John 3:18-21 ) because no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him ( John 6:44 ) as it is the Father that reveals His Son to us so we can come to Him & believe in Him and thus be saved by Him. ( Matthew 11:25-27 )

Enow · Aug 7, 2017

Stephen63 said:

Do remember this last statement in your quote.

But what about afterward? What do we do with these scriptures? Explain them away?

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Since the gospel is to believe in Him is how we are saved, then the call to repent is to turn from unbelief by believing in Him.

Matthew 21:[SUP]32 [/SUP]For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

John had prepared the "way" of the Lord, and it was after they had seen Him, they did not repent from unbelief so that they would believe in Him.

Matthew 3:8 is in relation to John the Baptist's call to repentance of receiving remission of sins by water baptism.

Mark 1:[SUP]3 [/SUP]The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Luke 3:[SUP]2 [/SUP]Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;[SUP] 4 [/SUP]As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

So this was how John prepared the way of the Lord wherein remission of sins was done by water baptism of repentance wherein now, by believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins.

Acts 10:[SUP]43 [/SUP]To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.[SUP] 44 [/SUP]While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

So that was how John the Baptist's prepared the way for the Lord where water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins was replaced with believing in Him for the remission of sins.

Acts 26:20

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Acts 26:[SUP]20 [/SUP]But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. KJV ONLY

First they must repent and turn to God how? By believing in Him. AND THEN do works meet for repentance.

To be saved through faith, we're to continue to believe in Christ, not believe once & never believe again

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That can happen to a saved believer when they err from the truth and have their faith overthrown, but He still abides as that foundation still remains, but unless they repent, they run the risk of being left behind at the pre trib rapture event when God shall judge His House wherein they shall be received later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House as they will testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name.

But for the elect's sake, we disciple other believers in the hope that they, as His disciple, may also obtain that eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus of being received by the Bridegroom as a vessel unto honour in His House to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb held in His honour and to His glory.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:[SUP] 12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us. [SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself......[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

To a sinner dying on his deathbed while you lay dying beside him, preaching of your faith in Him so that he may believe and be saved..... you would not be sharing that works is needed to prove to others that he is saved, now would you, since a sinner cannot get any assurance of his salvation by doing any good work when he is lying on his deathbed, now can he?

1 Peter 3:[SUP]15 [/SUP]But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Your witness of your hope in Him without testifying to any added works of righteousness that you have done after you had been saved is how that sinner on his deathbed will be saved.

Grace777x70 · Aug 7, 2017

We don't have to prove anything to God. He knows who belongs to Him and who doesn't.

Good works done by the life of Christ in us will manifest the love and grace of our loving Father and Lord have for others - but they are not for our personal salvation. Christ alone is the Savior.

Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

1 Corinthians 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God.

2 Timothy 2:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."

( wickedness is all things contrary to the life of God - such as living a homosexual lifestyle to exhibiting malice towards others and the slandering of others in the body of Christ - they are all in the same lists together as "works of the flesh" )

We are "living epistles." - known and read by all men.

We are living epistles of the Lord Jesus Christ which does not originate from what we do but from who we are in Him.

Christ Himself is the Vine - we are the branches. Just as the branches are in union with the vine, so we too are in union with Christ.

This living and organic union is based upon the fact that we share a common life - His. It is an interior life expressed by exterior fruits. It is a manifestation of the new creation in Christ.

God has found a face in us that portray Him more accurately than the best theology. Our features, our touch, the cadence of our voice, the compassion in our gaze, the lines in our face when we smile, the warmth of our person and presence unveils Him to those around us.

This is "letting our light shine". He is the Light and we are joined as one spirit with Him for eternity.

Enow · Aug 7, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Letting our light shine also means to testify to the completeness we are in Christ since we had first believed the gospel.

Colossians 2:[SUP]5 [/SUP]For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

No added work is needed to complete His work, including seeking to receive the Holy Spirit "again" by the sign of tongues which does not come with interpretation when tongues were never to serve as a sign to already saved believers about anything.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]20 [/SUP]Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.[SUP] 22 [/SUP]Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

So does speaking in tongues which never comes with interpretation but assumed to be a prayer language of the Holy Spirit which came by a sign that a saved believer can receive the Holy Spirit "again" testify to that completeness in Christ to every believer that has been saved when they had first come to & believed in Jesus Christ? No. It does not.

So that is one example of how supernatural works are not always of Him when they testify otherwise of that completeness in Christ as tongues without interpretation excludes from other saved believers that do not have that kind of supernatural tongue that came by having another drink of what every one assume was the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]13 [/SUP]For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So are we all speaking the same thing when testifying that no added work from ourselves nor extra blessing from God is required when we are complete in Him when we had first come to & believed in Him to be saved?

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]17 [/SUP]For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.[SUP] 18 [/SUP]For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.....[SUP]21 [/SUP]For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe......[SUP]29 [/SUP]That no flesh should glory in his presence.[SUP] 30 [/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:[SUP]31 [/SUP]That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

How our light is shining in the world is indeed by how we are bearing witness of our faith in Him to the world. Do we declare our hope in Him to the world or do we divide that hope in Christ Jesus with something else in His name, thus voiding that singular hope in Christ Jesus for sinners to be saved by to rest in Him when hearing the gospel.

sevenseas · Aug 7, 2017

Stephen63 said:

you know, I have tried a few times in different threads to talk about what the works are

in fact, I once asked a JP follower what works he was doing and I got no answer

I pressed the question and got a joke for an answer in return (no names please. we don't need another post full of directed hatred while we are being told that we are the ones hating. those who follow a false gospel love to hate on others while mouthing scripture)

it is very clear in scripture that we are intended to do simple and kind acts of charity, helps, feeding the poor, taking care of widows and so on. I'm not taking up the challenge of anyone demanding I give scripture for the above. when I have time later, I will supply it for those who are of one mind, not two minds, and who actually believe they can learn, in a normal way, without three visions and the angel Gabriel pointing at something, that God actually has already told us all He requires from us

once we know what is the revealed and very clear will of God, AS HIS WORD STATES, AS JESUS STATES, AS JOHN STATES, EVEN AS ISAIAH AND JEREMIAH STATE, we are led further by His Spirit to more PERHAPS, as He gives gifts by His Spirit, HE chooses to whom He will give these gifts and they are for the building up of believers...but some people are convinced they are for personal use and the puffing up of believers

1As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it[SUP]a[/SUP] says:“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”[SUP]b[/SUP]

9(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[SUP]c[/SUP] ? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

there are people lining up to be prophets, apostles and far too many so called teachers

YET GOD is the one who decides who should get what

that's too hard. way too hard. in fact, many just skip that altogether. someone recently pointed me to a pretty funny satiric site regarding 'Christian' activities and the worship of so called worship bands . the entire site is pretty funny and the reason it is, is because it is a satiric commentary on those who are determined to be all that God never intended them or anyone else to be

as I have stated a few times now, I was, in the past, defending on the side of no works save, it's all about grace

BUT...I was misled and did not understanding that I was thinking one thing...biblical grace...and was siding with some who were absolutely not in agreement with what I was actually basing my posts on. I have since learned where the foundations for the beliefs are, regarding unbiblical grace, because there is most certainly a crowd falling for this dangerous itching ears teaching.

I absolutely agree that a person following Christ will begin to exhibit the character of the One they follow

HOWEVER, those who follow false teachers/prophets etc, will begin to exhibit the traits of the ones they follow and this, is NOT Christ.

Hence the inability to listen to anyone else while saying everyone can believe whatever they want ( a very heretical and harmful practice because the Bible is explicit we must not do so), those who follow JP for example, often use that phrase (they are thankfully in the minority but still very vocal).

I truly never thought I would live to see the day that the Bible is used as a tool for deceived people who are utterly intolerant of anything but their continuing unscriptural and ever deepening deception

garee · Aug 7, 2017

John146 said:

We shpld ask ourselves, our work of faith as the creature that we offer in or towards…another. or ……the faith of, as coming from the Creators work of faith that work in us?

One thing I have noticed with many is when it comes to the “faith of God” coming from as to the work of God, the idea of even talking about God needing faith seems to be difficult for some to understand. Turning things upside down making it come from the creature towards the Creator many error.

It must be distinguished whose faith is in view. The faith of God as the work of God that works in us…..or a faith coming from the creature offered towards Him which he calls dead works identifying those who do crucify Christ over and over to public shame.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

It is impossible to separate the work of faith from the person who is working it. Abraham like Rehab was justified by the work of Christ’s faith that worked in Abraham to both will and do the good pleasure of God .We can see how the faith of Christ worked with the work of Christ and His belief (faith)was made perfect.

If we would accredit the work of that faith to Abraham then we have already blasphemed the Holy name by which we are called heavenward

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Jam 2:21

Our faith in or towards…. or the faith of as coming from another person’s work of faith

One thing I have noticed with many is when it comes to the “faith of God” coming from as to the work of God the idea of even talking about God needing faith seems to be difficult for some to understand. Turning that upside down making it come from the creature towards the Creator.

It must be distinguished whose faith is in view .The faith of God as the work of God that works in us.or a faith coming from the creature towards Him which he calls dead works as those who do crucify Christ over and over to public shame.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

sevenseas · Aug 7, 2017

addendum to post 12

I should summarize

those who insist on saying that the above (both stephen's and my reply post) are identifying works as working to be saved or even working to stay saved, are GOOFBALLS and have no understanding whatsoever but are quick to argue and flaunt what they believe is salvation

Jesus didn't die so you can have a good time. for that matter, how's it been the last couple of years? any surprises? things did not go your way? all the devil's fault you say?

what are your good works? have any?

I have done PLENTY of good works and I could not care less if I get a crown or a bigger palace on the sunny side of the street in heaven

God has my heart and my mind.

Grace777x70 · Aug 7, 2017

People are free to believe whatever they want in the sense that they are beings "of choice".

It doesn't mean that it's true or not true.

People are free to believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation but that doesn't make it true no matter how much they say it.

Where people are free to believe in what they choose is in the "non-essentials" - like tongues, healing, end of days, kinds of food one eats...observing one day over another....etc.

This concept is talked about by Paul in Romans 14:1-23

Romans 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

What is non-negotiable is the essentials which is in the Deity of Christ, His Person and His finished work on the cross and resurrection. That we are saved by Christ's death and blood that was shed for us. And this is all based on grace through faith in Him alone. He is the Savior.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

Works do not save us nor keep us saved. We do good works as a fruit of His life being manifested in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace our loving father and Lord have for them.

We are "living epistles" known and read by all men.

Let's let our light shine ( which is Christ Himself in us ) before men that they may see the good works and glorify God. ( to glorify God means to ascribe "goodness" and value to Him )

Enow · Aug 7, 2017

garee said:

...."not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Once that foundation has been laid by Christ Jesus by believing in Him, that foundation cannot be laid down again by going through the motions that a sinner did the first time when he got saved. There is only going on from there to perfection.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection;............

James reference to Abraham was about rebuking the church for verbalizing faith in God's Providence to the poor to get out of helping the poor. It was NEVER about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as that is without works.

Genesis 22:[SUP]7 [/SUP]And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?[SUP] 8 [/SUP]And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.....[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

The name of the place is the testimony of Abraham's faith in God to provide. That is the only kind of faith that James was referencing and not about the faith in Jesus Christ which is without works, because the church were abusing the poor by getting our of helping the poor by verbalizing faith in His Providence to the poor without the church leading by example to the poor of the church's faith in His Providence by meeting the immediate needs of the poor from the bounty collected after church service.

Faith in God's Providence is not the same as faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

Just as it is not the same as a preacher applying faith in God to heal and not go to doctors and hospitals for the congregation to obey and yet when the pastor gets sick or injured, he goes to the doctor or the hospital. So is that preacher referring to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation? No. Is the preacher referring to the faith in God to provide? No. The preacher was applying a kind of faith in God to heal with the stipend that no one should go to doctors or hospitals for God to do that healing... and failed to lead by that unBiblical example of that faith in God to heal.

So when a church says "be warmed & be filled" to the departing poor without meeting the immediate needs of the poor from the bounty collected after church service, then in the eyes of the poor, that church's faith in His Providence is dead as it will not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor from the elements and starvation, seeing the lack of example by the church.

Believers need to read James "faith without works is dead" in context to what kind of faith James was referring to, because it can never be about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation that requires works to be saving faith.

Romans 10:[SUP]8 [/SUP]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; [SUP]9 [/SUP]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.[SUP]13 [/SUP]For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [SUP]14 [/SUP]How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? [SUP]15 [/SUP]And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! [SUP]16 [/SUP]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
So do you believe our report or are you preaching to sinners that they should look to doing good works to make their faith a saving faith because that would mean faith in Jesus Christ is not enough to have saved them a that moment when they believe in Him to be saved as the gospel preaches?

Titus 3:[SUP]4 [/SUP]But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;[SUP] 7 [/SUP]That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Maintaining good works are good and profitable unto men, but they are not for salvation nor for making that faith a saving faith because faith in Him as in believing in Him is the power of God to save anyone without works to be added.

Romans 3:[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]29 [/SUP]That no flesh should glory in his presence.[SUP] 30 [/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:[SUP] 31 [/SUP]That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Works has nothing to do with establishing that foundation which was laid by Christ Jesus, but any work that says that it does while still on that foundation, is denying that foundation as only laid by Christ Jesus by believing in Him alone. That is a work of iniquity that denies Him as able to save by faith alone... and unless the believer lean on Him for help in discernment to see that doubleminded iniquity, so that they can depart from that iniquity, that "work" will be burned up when God comes to judge His House at the pre trib rapture event, and since no flesh shall glory in His Presence, they run the risk of becoming castaways, as in left behind, to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation.

There are enough scripture testifying how we are saved simply by believing in Him, without works added to it, that we need His help to apply scripture rightly when wrong application of the scripture are opposing the plain truth in His words.

We are not running that race to make our faith in Him saving faith. We can only be in that race as saved believers. We are to run that race as saved believers or else... our running is in vain, even though those in error are still saved, but have come short of the rest in Jesus Christ. Unless they repent before the Bridegroom comes, they cannot be received as vessels unto honor in His House if they seek glory for the work they have done to make their faith in Him as a saving faith because no flesh shall glory in His Presence. We are the work of His hands and that includes any work of righteousness which we have done which could only be done by Him working in us and through us which is His glory.

It is no wonder why the elders will cast their rewards of crowns at His feet, for the crowns are His crowning achievements in us as we are His workmanship through and through.

So are we running that race by faith in Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House with the rewards of crowns as a testimony of Him and His glory... or is our hope on works to make our faith a saving faith in Him wherein men can glory and risk being left behind at the pre trib rapture event because of it?

sevenseas · Aug 7, 2017

so again to clarify, we are all to do the 'good works' as Paul taught Timothy

further works are ordered by God through His Spirit

and notice I said 'ordered' which does not include fire tunnels, rolling on the floor on the platform while mumbling in tongues instead of COHERENTLY delivering the gospel of Jesus

out of control experiences are of another spirit. they serve no purpose other than to confuse

the Bible says to do all things decently and in order

saying someone fell 'under the power' is not the same as thinking you are a chicken or a dog. rolling around and moaning is indicative of someone needing prayer for the casting out of demons and saying Jesus words are not as important as most think they are, is a doctrine of demons.

the devil wants to fool you through persuasive words that tell you it's all good and look at how great you feel

sheep let to the slaughter

there is no gospel without Jesus so why is the heresy being taught that we don't apply His words?

because people will not submit to Him as Lord! it's that simple. it's all about how you feel

if you get angry or uncomfortable reading this, you get angry because this is the truth and if you get uncomfortable, then change your behavior and agree with what the Bible says

align your thoughts/mind with the Bible.

and again, because some spread untruths about what is being said, we are not judged by the law, we are not saved through works and we do not keep salvation with works

however, the Bible does indicate works all can do and then further works as what is given through God's word, is understood and the person knows how to 'keep' themself from deception and understands how demons come as angels of light to twist and distort the truth and ask the same question that is always asked

that question is simply : 'has God really said?'

Grace777x70 · Aug 7, 2017

As believers in Christ we are to encourage each other in the doing of good works.

There are many religions that manifest good works but they are not of God.

Paul said in 1 Cor. 13 that we can do good things but not from the origination of love.

Jesus said there will always be wheat in with the tares and some will do good works too. Matt. 7:23 shows this.

I believe it is the fruit of their "words" that we can see and judge. What does it bring forth in our lives if we believe their message?

One fruit is that they bite and devour with their words of condemnation, trying to shame and bring guilt onto others. Name-calling and abusive behavior with insults is a clear example of walking after the flesh of which true false prophets and true believers can do.

They love to try to "lord it over the faith " of others by their "superior knowledge" and rely on their human scholarship to be-little you if you don't agree with their view of doctrine and others in their group that believe the same way as they do.

I believe that some believers in Christ can "act" like wolves because they are deceived by the subtleness of satan's belief system of "doing to get" and thus preach and teach his message of works-based mindset and beliefs.

There are others that are wolves and not born-again but only God knows the heart of man.

I have written about this a few times.

I agree that some people are definitely false prophets on purpose and others are just deceived and it is so subtle too....sometimes it is hard to pick them out because they could just be a product of false teaching or an incomplete understanding of the gospel of the grace of Christ and "in their own minds" are just trying to "defend the faith".

None of us have complete truth in all things. Only God knows and can judge the difference of what is in the heart of people.

Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.

Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

( notice that is "their" works )

This below in 1 Peter 1:13 is what satan is really after...this is why he has false prophets/teachers in our midst.

He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance and human will-power instead of what Christ has done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Nehemiah6 · Aug 7, 2017

Enow said:

Well, this is where you are dead wrong, and Scripture refutes what you have just stated. If a man claims to be saved and has no good works as evidence, he is either deluding himself or deluding others. That is precisely what James says by Divine inspiration:

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Stephen63 · Aug 7, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

As believers in Christ we are to encourage each other in the doing of good works.

There are many religions that manifest good works but they are not of God.

Paul said in 1 Cor. 13 that we can do good things but not from the origination of love.

Jesus said there will always be wheat in with the tares and some will do good works too. Matt. 7:23 shows this.

I believe it is the fruit of their "words" that we can see and judge. What does it bring forth in our lives if we believe their message?

One fruit is that they bite and devour with their words of condemnation, trying to shame and bring guilt onto others. Name-calling and abusive behavior with insults is a clear example of walking after the flesh of which true false prophets and true believers can do.

They love to try to "lord it over the faith " of others by their "superior knowledge" and rely on their human scholarship to be-little you if you don't agree with their view of doctrine and others in their group that believe the same way as they do.

I believe that some believers in Christ can "act" like wolves because they are deceived by the subtleness of satan's belief system of "doing to get" and thus preach and teach his message of works-based mindset and beliefs.

There are others that are wolves and not born-again but only God knows the heart of man.

I have written about this a few times.

I agree that some people are definitely false prophets on purpose and others are just deceived and it is so subtle too....sometimes it is hard to pick them out because they could just be a product of false teaching or an incomplete understanding of the gospel of the grace of Christ and "in their own minds" are just trying to "defend the faith".

None of us have complete truth in all things. Only God knows and can judge the difference of what is in the heart of people.

Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.

Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

( notice that is "their" works )

This below in 1 Peter 1:13 is what satan is really after...this is why he has false prophets/teachers in our midst.

He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance and human will-power instead of what Christ has done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Works With Faith Does Not Make Saving Faith

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