Sabbath

oldethennew · Aug 6, 2017

it is evident that from the beginning of our being led to this 'FORUM', that satan has
his hand in here very deep and very deceptive,..we pray for our Brothers and Sisters
that Jesus will give them the discernment that they will need to see the 'planters of deception'..,
who obey their 'false-god'...this is the only reason that they are here!

eventually, they will become transparent by their deceptive and wicked words,..

may our Saviour have 'mercy' upon them!

Dan_473 · Aug 6, 2017

JaumeJ said:

He told us by His Example, and He told us by His teaching.

Having indicated this, when you think of it, you know which laws are valid by the Holy Spirit, providing He resides in you.

Here is an example, the High Prist mus...etc There are no High Priests other than Jesus Christ.

The Levitical priest muust wash befoe.....etc. We are a race of priests tot he most High God.

If you see your enemy's property on the wayside you must return it to him and if that is not possible you must safeguard it until you are able......... Does not the new person tell you this is good? When reading it, do you say to yourself, "I would do this anyway."

Someone hits you, and instead of an eye for an eye, you know if you have the temper controlled you are to turn the other cheek........It just makes sense. Maybe not to an unbeliever, but if you believe Jesus and keep in mind all He has suffered fro each of us, it is nothing for us to obey this law out of gratitude. You will not be earning anyting towards salvation but God will love you for it even more.

The grace-only do-nothing folks do not understand any of this ev en thought of time one of them will say , I love so I obey the law, yet the tell others to obey is wrong and being under the law. Who, now, is the legalist?

Then there are the ten commandments God, Himself, wrote down, none of which offend the goodness of the nem man orwoman each of us has become,but they offend many here who claim they live in grace. These poor souls are either very deluded or just plain liars......only God knows the hearts of men.

There were 613 laws before Jesus, and He has stisfied all but a few dozen, maybe a little moe. We all know by the Holy Spirit how toconduct ourselves, but none of us who choose to obey as did our Example, Jesus Christ, fear reading the wisdom of the law for we know we live in mercy every day the grace is fresh..

God bless you Dan...

613? did you count them or are you repeating a Jewish tradition?

if a few dozen are left for us, it should be easy to list them.

please do!

Dan_473 · Aug 6, 2017

Enow said:

How about another scriptural reference?

Acts 15:[SUP]5 [/SUP]But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;[SUP] 9 [/SUP]And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?[SUP] 11 [/SUP]But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Continue reading...

Acts 15:[SUP]22 [/SUP]Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:[SUP] 23 [/SUP]And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.[SUP] 24 [/SUP]Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:[SUP] 25 [/SUP]It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,[SUP] 26 [/SUP]Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.[SUP] 28 [/SUP]For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;[SUP] 29 [/SUP]That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.[SUP]30 [/SUP]So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:

I do not see any regard to the Gentiles to keep the sabbath day, but deferring from the law of Moses of keeping the law.

Dude, that's a lot of words

how about a few sentences?

oldethennew · Aug 6, 2017

your lack of grace and humility are so far out of line, that even you should be able
to see it - but of course, this is always the way that satan deceives...he steals your hearts
first and foremost, and thus you are blinded to your very own words and concepts...

please Father, have mercy...

JaumeJ · Aug 7, 2017

This post of yours causes me to doubtyour sincerity in gene`ral. First that nuimber, 613, I have taken from known and self-proclaimed scholars of the Word. I do not care4 if it is exact or not; what is important is my conscience in the sigth of God.

The same holds true fro which laws are still in effect. I have posted how you kow each. We are taught that some may observe one law in good conscience whil others may ignore them for the ame reason.

I am led by the Holy Spirit only in matters of the truth from the Word, as are all who believe. This way of life and walking cannot be given to another in text, it must be received from God by the Holy Spirit.

I certainly hope with all my heart you are not trying to catch people in their words for this can be done erroneosly to all of us, except Jesus christ! His words are forever.,

Dan_473 said:

JohnTalmid · Aug 7, 2017

What is important?
Roman's 3 vs 20 ish
For in his sight no one alive will be considered righteous on the ground of legalistic observance of "torah" commands, ...

Now my words not scripture...
We should know 20 ends with, Torah really accomplishes revealing how sinful they are.

Within the framework of the Torah a person who is a believer in the Messiah by Faith has come to the understanding that NOT the law or any command of the Torah, ordinance, or precept can make you righteous because it being righteous and the example as it exists is God's word. Now that said in simpler terms, the person who passed up the Law basically has what is said by the Messiah, who are my brothers, sisters, mother? Those who do the will of the Father.
Now I'm not perfect and the law has made it clear that I sin and have all my life. What I believe that the Spirit testifies to is that I will strive to be perfect a little at a time or great leaps only as Messiah allows. It would be a grave error to ignore the law or the wisdom of the framework that now raises my children. You who say I'm under a curse stop not killing people, or stop not stealing things, how about you guys doing what is right in man's eyes should open your eyes to the law of Elohim and Messiah. Be crucified by Torah daily and carry Messiah your cross. Are you doing what is right according to the word already? Most Christians are keeping 80 to 90% of the law. The biggest thing I see is the rejecting of the Sabbath and biblical festivals. One precept broken is not bringing foreign god's into your houses, even storing them in the heart. How are you keeping the command to teach them to your children when you walk by the way, when you wake up, and before you lay down if you don't live within its framework?

Those who tried and failed have found themselves in Messiah, those who tried and saved themselves will die in their sins, and those who never tried will live in lawlessness and never enter the kingdom. I pray for us all to come to the full knowledge of the truth because that is what The Father in Heaven wants. Grace to you all in hope that not one would perish but all would find life.

Grandpa · Aug 7, 2017

gotime said:

You were wrong.

You tried to make the scriptures say that but they don't.

Paul absolutely did refer to the 10 commandments as the law of sin and death in Romans 8

Paul explained in Romans 7 that it isn't the 10 commandments that are bad or evil. It is us that has sin that can't attain to the 10 commandments.

It is clear that Paul is teaching that those that follow the 10 commandments in their own understanding are under sin and death.

Those that have died to the law and follow the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus are those that are caused to be righteous.

Paul is not talking about two different laws in Romans 7

Paul is talking about the 10 commandments in Romans 7

Over and over and over Paul explains the difference of those that follow after the 10 commandments and how it brings death and condemnation to them through sin and those that follow after Christ and have died to their own work at the law.

I have to think now that you misunderstand on purpose just so you can justify your work at the 10 commandments and cause others to do the same through your philosophy.

Romans 7:14 [FONT=&quot]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

[/FONT]This is the premise that Paul is explaining for the rest of Romans 7

The difference between the spiritual law and being carnal.

Its not two different laws.

Its two different aspects of the same law. The Spiritual application and the carnal.

How can you be a Spiritual Christian and not understand this? Is there a such thing as two different types of Christians, one a Spiritual Christian and one a Carnal Christian?

Grandpa · Aug 7, 2017

oldethennew said:

The false god being the one on stone, the 10 commandments?

Hebrews 7:18-19
[FONT=&quot]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.[/FONT]

JaumeJ · Aug 7, 2017

Paul would be ashamed of most of the people coming with arguments pinting in all directions from what he has written down.

One more, Paul learned from Jesus Christ.,

If you also learn from Jesus Christ, youw ill be hearing Pul also, for he teaches no one belongs to Paul but all belong to Jesus Christ.

I do not witness many here going to Jesus chrst for direct responses to their questions, instead I see a terrible confusion coming from those going only to Paul, Paul is is taugh of Jesus christ. This is a pitiful spectacle.

Grandpa · Aug 7, 2017

JaumeJ said:

The only thing pitiful is trying to somehow separate the scripture that Paul wrote from the rest of scripture.

It is all inspired by God.

Paul teaches Christianity very simply to those who have come to Christ.

For those who have not come to Christ Pauls words are hopelessly confused and fall on mostly deaf ears.

Galatians 2:21 [FONT=&quot]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.[/FONT]

JohnTalmid · Aug 7, 2017

Psalm 143:2
Don't bring your servant to trial, since in your sight no one alive would be considered righteous.

The truth in Tanakh, shows pattern after pattern pointing to the word of Elohim for our direction. The only reasonable explanation is our Elohim reaches out today still in love.

JaumeJ · Aug 7, 2017

When you read the Epistles, have you ever noticed something quite glaring?

You probably have not seeinghow you claim to understand os much.

The Holy Scriptures until the Fourth Gospel and including the Book, Revelation, is to all of us, while Paul addresses specific problems of specific assemblies because they were going away fromthe GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.

Even so what Paul has toshare is valluable for all to understand.

Now, what you are not hearing from Paul is quite simple. Paul is a dsciple and student of Jesus Christ.
Paul had nothing different or new to teach to those who believe because , as Jesus Christ teaches, the Holy Spirit was given by Him to us on Pentecost to show us all we need to know.

Why not be like Paul and learn from Jesus christ. Paul says His is the only Gospel, whey are y9ou attempting to make Paul and what he writes a new gospel? Tjos os pf tje eme,u-----amutjomg tp tale awau frp, tje gñpru pf Gpd. O woññ mpt àrtale pf sicj a tjomg-

It is strongly doubtful you will read this completely, and even mores that you will understand a word of it, not until your eyes ae opened and light is shown for you. I pray in Yeshua's name this occurs and you do understand and come to the feet of our Savior. Look around , you will see me there...

Grandpa said:

Dan_473 · Aug 7, 2017

JaumeJ said:

the 613 is a Jewish tradition, usually attributed to Rambam. He arrived at that number by seeing multiple commandments in a single statement, and ignoring others.

2 CORINTHIANS 3:15 But to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

2 CORINTHIANS 3:16 But whenever one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

so...
the spirit leads people to observe some commandments and set aside others?

and it's different for each person? and secret, not to be shared with others?

then, for me, the spirit has led me to observe only one, and to share it

GALATIANS 5 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

and thus set aside zero.

HEBREWS 10:24 Let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good works.

JaumeJ · Aug 7, 2017

My response is only to the part I have put in bold.

I do not expect anyone to have read all that I have posted;
I certainly do not read all of theirs, but you have already heard
or read the response from me on what you have posted.

Yes, the Holy Spirit does let us know all. Now, without
the benefit of the knowledge from the Holy Spirit
Jesus Christ has demonstrated how to identify and
oby the commandments and laws.

Remember I posted, to you I believe, that our Lord
told the hypocrites they love to apply the law but
they leae out the most important three
points of the law, mercy, justice and faith.

Now, by these three alone, and a good study
of Jesus, His eachings and His example, we should
recognize all laws that are in effect and by what
He has fulfilled which are extinct.

You know I have answered this to you befoe.

Please be serious , not only when you post but
above all when you are answered.

Dan_473 said:

Grandpa · Aug 7, 2017

JaumeJ said:

When you read the Epistles, have you ever noticed something quite glaring?

You probably have not seeinghow you claim to understand os much.

The Holy Scriptures until the Fourth Gospel and including the Book, Revelation, is to all of us, while Paul addresses specific problems of specific assemblies because they were going away fromthe GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.

Even so what Paul has toshare is valluable for all to understand.

Now, what you are not hearing from Paul is quite simple. Paul is a dsciple and student of Jesus Christ.
Paul had nothing different or new to teach to those who believe because , as Jesus Christ teaches, the Holy Spirit was given by Him to us on Pentecost to show us all we need to know.

Why not be like Paul and learn from Jesus christ. Paul says His is the only Gospel, whey are y9ou attempting to make Paul and what he writes a new gospel? Tjos os pf tje eme,u-----amutjomg tp tale awau frp, tje gñpru pf Gpd. O woññ mpt àrtale pf sicj a tjomg-

It is strongly doubtful you will read this completely, and even mores that you will understand a word of it, not until your eyes ae opened and light is shown for you. I pray in Yeshua's name this occurs and you do understand and come to the feet of our Savior. Look around , you will see me there...

Its not a new gospel that I'm sharing.

Its just new to you.

Dan_473 · Aug 7, 2017

oldethennew said:

is this addressed to me? if so,

Enow had written this nice post to me, post 2407.

but I wasn't sure what he was getting at, so I asked him to summarize it or expand on the first idea in it.

He responded with posts 2434 and 2435.

so, I asked again in a friendly way, using different words.

Enow has interesting ideas, so I'm hoping he will summarize or start me off with his first idea.

JaumeJ · Aug 7, 2017

I reiterate, teh only Gospel I believe is the only Gospel there is, that of Jesus Christ....

You know I have shared this with you many times yet you come back with your disturbing understanding of Paul's letters in place of what I have learned from Jesus christ, Himself.

I know this makes you nervous to the soul, but this too will come to pass when you either come to the gospel of Jesus from Jesus Christ, and stope pushing some non-existant gospel you interpret from Paul's letters.

If you believed Paul as you claim you would know I am absolutely correct in saying we belong to Jesus christ and not to any one else. Hear Jesus Christ.....Believe HIm.........

Grandpa said:

Dan_473 · Aug 7, 2017

JaumeJ said:

My response is only to the part I have put in bold.

I do not expect anyone to have read all that I have posted;
I certainly do not read all of theirs, but you have already heard
or read the response from me on what you have posted.

Yes, the Holy Spirit does let us know all. Now, without
the benefit of the knowledge from the Holy Spirit
Jesus Christ has demonstrated how to identify and
oby the commandments and laws.

Remember I posted, to you I believe, that our Lord
told the hypocrites they love to apply the law but
they leae out the most important three
points of the law, mercy, justice and faith.

Now, by these three alone, and a good study
of Jesus, His eachings and His example, we should
recognize all laws that are in effect and by what
He has fulfilled which are extinct.

You know I have answered this to you befoe.

Please be serious , not only when you post but
above all when you are answered.

I take this discussion extremely seriously.

I disagree that, from Torah, there are different commandments for different people.

and if they are the same, then there's no reason for secrecy.

JaumeJ · Aug 7, 2017

Take this seriously. There are laws for stoning to death certain people's infractions of teh law. Jesus christ has demonstrated mercy in place of these laws.

The Holy Spirit witnesses to this ablishment of that law, or the overlooking of it.

If a person is guilty of breaking the least of all teh laws, without the mercy of Jesus Christ, that is the cleansing Blood of the Lamb of Yahweh, that person is not worthy of the Kingdom but the lake of fire. Mercy covers this for those who believe Yahweh.

Faith covers many laws, and this can only stem from faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, Yeshua.

Justice for all who believe is forgiveness in lieu of the punishments prescribed byi the laws.

People are not actually picking and choosing, the Holy Spirit along with Christ's teachings are guiding the believer.

We are all become praisers of Yah because of Jesus Christ , andwith this transition we are become Hebrews for we have a Promised Land t cometo in the future to our King Yesua......the Husband and the Salvation of all who are saved.

Taking this further, Isaiah 9:6, the child bornunto us is God Almighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace, Comforter, Counselor, and much more. If you like He is Pele Joez El Gibbor Abi Ad Sar Shalom............Elohanu...

Abraham first prophesied the Lamb of God, Chapter 22.........Genesis.

Yuo take the Torah seriously, then read it and pray the Holy Spirit guide you. Otherwise the written code will kill and not give life.

Dan_473 said:

Dan_473 · Aug 7, 2017

JaumeJ said:

first, a preliminary question

are you basing the stoning story on John 7:53?

it may not have happened.

John 7:53 Later mss add the story of the adulterous woman, numbering it as John 7:53-8:11
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+7&version=NASB

I think it would be good to have two or three scriptural witnesses on the subject.

2 CORINTHIANS 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. “At the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”

here's a verse I think applies
LUKE 11:42 But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and every herb, but you bypass justice and the love of God.

You ought to have done these,

and not to have left the other undone.

Sabbath

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