Works With Faith Does Not Make Saving Faith
- Thread starter Enow
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Discipleship is separate from salvation and it is because we have to be saved first by believing in Him in order to receive Jesus Christ so that we can have power by Him to live as His disciple.
If a believer sins or backslide, or err from the truth and had their faith overthrown, it does not mean they are now unsaved or that they were never saved in the first place. We correct them so that they may continue on to perfection; not to be saved again by Him, but to continue to grow in Him to bear fruit as His disciples.
So God really said that even those who even believe in His name.. are saved and have power to live as the sons of God.
John 1:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
If works is needed to make our faith in Him as saving faith, then we all would have a long "born again of the Spirit" process with no end in sight... and that cannot be.
We either run by faith in Him that we are saved without works so that we can follow Him as saved believers in going onto perfection by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd in helping us to lay aside every weight & sin, living as His disciples or saved believers are laboring in unbelief & coming short of that rest in Jesus Christ by running that race for salvation.
We look to Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross is where our saving faith comes from in that He has saved us when we had first believed in Him; not by the works of righteousness that followed which we have done by His grace and by His help in living as His disciples which is why no one can boast of any work they have done in Heaven except in the Lord.
The other contention that I have towards saved believers that insists on works to make our faith in Him as saving faith is that if any one sins or had done a work of the flesh, should the saved believer now thinks he does not have saving faith by that sin? No. So why dole out a judgment on works for vindicating that faith in Him as saving faith when the opposite of such judgment is not true?
When a believer is not abiding in Him, do we preach the gospel that he already believes in? No. We go on to perfection by correcting the believer by scripture & point him to Jesus Christ for help to repent & not just asking Him for forgiveness, so that he can resume that fellowship with the Father & the Son that their joy may be full and bear fruit as His disciples.
I thank the Lord for you for sharing our faith in Jesus Christ.......... may God cause the increase.
If a believer sins or backslide, or err from the truth and had their faith overthrown, it does not mean they are now unsaved or that they were never saved in the first place. We correct them so that they may continue on to perfection; not to be saved again by Him, but to continue to grow in Him to bear fruit as His disciples.
So God really said that even those who even believe in His name.. are saved and have power to live as the sons of God.
John 1:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
If works is needed to make our faith in Him as saving faith, then we all would have a long "born again of the Spirit" process with no end in sight... and that cannot be.
We either run by faith in Him that we are saved without works so that we can follow Him as saved believers in going onto perfection by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd in helping us to lay aside every weight & sin, living as His disciples or saved believers are laboring in unbelief & coming short of that rest in Jesus Christ by running that race for salvation.
We look to Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross is where our saving faith comes from in that He has saved us when we had first believed in Him; not by the works of righteousness that followed which we have done by His grace and by His help in living as His disciples which is why no one can boast of any work they have done in Heaven except in the Lord.
The other contention that I have towards saved believers that insists on works to make our faith in Him as saving faith is that if any one sins or had done a work of the flesh, should the saved believer now thinks he does not have saving faith by that sin? No. So why dole out a judgment on works for vindicating that faith in Him as saving faith when the opposite of such judgment is not true?
When a believer is not abiding in Him, do we preach the gospel that he already believes in? No. We go on to perfection by correcting the believer by scripture & point him to Jesus Christ for help to repent & not just asking Him for forgiveness, so that he can resume that fellowship with the Father & the Son that their joy may be full and bear fruit as His disciples.
I thank the Lord for you for sharing our faith in Jesus Christ.......... may God cause the increase.
Who? Jesus or God?
And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. Mark 11:22
The Word is written in John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
So does 'saving faith' require one to believe in God and tremble?
"It is written, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God", since faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, then can you show the substance of your faith without evidence that is seen since hope that is seen is not hope, for what a man sees why does he hope?
And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. Mark 11:22
The Word is written in John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
So does 'saving faith' require one to believe in God and tremble?
"It is written, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God", since faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, then can you show the substance of your faith without evidence that is seen since hope that is seen is not hope, for what a man sees why does he hope?
Are you saying that faith is dead UNTIL it produces works and then it becomes a living faith? That's like saying that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree. Does dead faith produce works or does living faith produce works? Does a dead tree produce fruit or does a living tree produce fruit?
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
And,
In fact, no Christian needs to "prove" themselves to any other human being either!
God is our only judge and I know the merits by which I will be judged - none other than the merits of Jesus Christ.
I certainly believe Christians are to do good works, but their apparent presence, or absence for that matter, is nothing that man can judge on an eternal or spiritual basis - and even if man could correctly judge these things it is irrelevant since the only judge that counts is God.
In fact, no Christian needs to "prove" themselves to any other human being either!
God is our only judge and I know the merits by which I will be judged - none other than the merits of Jesus Christ.
I certainly believe Christians are to do good works, but their apparent presence, or absence for that matter, is nothing that man can judge on an eternal or spiritual basis - and even if man could correctly judge these things it is irrelevant since the only judge that counts is God.
In expounding on your earlier post about the false witness of those who encounter the second blessing or the extra supernatural phenomenon from which you attribute these examples that causes them to fall down, it does separate themselves from other believers that had only one drink of the One Spirit that we were all baptized by ( 1 Corinthians 12:13 ). It would be they that went out "from us that followed His voice" to them following a stranger's voice, namely, tongues without interpretation gained by that apostasy where they assume they are receiving the Holy Spirit again.
It is that tongues without interpretation that believers are failing to test the spirits by as that kind of supernatural tongue has been in the world before Pentecost had come with God's gift of tongues to speak unto the people. Indeed, your witness against the confusion should serve as a line of discernment for other believers to know that God would never use His gift of tongues to speak unto the people and then turn it around and have it come without interpretation and mimicking the supernatural tongue as found in the occult and in other world's religions. That would make God the author of confusion and yet scripture says He is not; and so therefore tongues without interpretation is not the assumed prayer language of the Holy Spirit at all nor a means for self edification without interpreting it for that tongue to be fruitful to the tongue speaker.
So as a light in the world.. that needs to be separate from the world, believers should discern by Him why tongues can never be without interpretation to just be vain & profane babbling because then, that light would be hidden in the world.
Matthew 6:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
This is true for all believers, and so another reason why tongue speakers should discern tongues without interpretation needing to be used by the Holy Spirit as a covert means of prayer is falsehood at its worst. Shunning vain & profane babbling to pray normally is how any tongue speaker can repent and show their faith and their light as separate from the world and yet to the world as a witness of Jesus Christ.
It is that tongues without interpretation that believers are failing to test the spirits by as that kind of supernatural tongue has been in the world before Pentecost had come with God's gift of tongues to speak unto the people. Indeed, your witness against the confusion should serve as a line of discernment for other believers to know that God would never use His gift of tongues to speak unto the people and then turn it around and have it come without interpretation and mimicking the supernatural tongue as found in the occult and in other world's religions. That would make God the author of confusion and yet scripture says He is not; and so therefore tongues without interpretation is not the assumed prayer language of the Holy Spirit at all nor a means for self edification without interpreting it for that tongue to be fruitful to the tongue speaker.
So as a light in the world.. that needs to be separate from the world, believers should discern by Him why tongues can never be without interpretation to just be vain & profane babbling because then, that light would be hidden in the world.
Matthew 6:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
This is true for all believers, and so another reason why tongue speakers should discern tongues without interpretation needing to be used by the Holy Spirit as a covert means of prayer is falsehood at its worst. Shunning vain & profane babbling to pray normally is how any tongue speaker can repent and show their faith and their light as separate from the world and yet to the world as a witness of Jesus Christ.
Last edited:
What you had referenced was about prayer.
Mark 11:[SUP]20 [/SUP]And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.[SUP] 22 [/SUP]And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.[SUP] 23 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Jesus is God. The fact that He did not pray but cursed the fig tree shows how nature obeys Him as nature obeys God. He testified that His disciples can do the same thing when they pray and not doubt what they had prayed for.
If you agree that only God answers prayers, then behold this truth in His words.
John 14:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Therefore Jesus is God.
That verse pretty much said that Jesus has seen God the Father because Jesus is God since no "man" has seen God the Father.
Why did you think the demons named "Legion" trembled before the Son of God?
So in other words, you agree that faith in Jesus Christ as our God the Saviour for salvation is without works in order for our hope in Him to be that singular hope that we are saved simply by believing in Him?
No. That kind of faith can only be applied to faith in God to provide which is what James was talking about in rebuking the church for verbalizing faith in His Providence to get out of helping the poor in meeting their immediate needs, but not the faith in Jesus Christ which is without works.
I agree if one applies James' faith in His Providence without works to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation to be in the same way.... which is why it can never be the same kind of faith applied towards God.
Not every saved believer will live as His disciples to bear fruit just as not every tree will produce fruit. But what is needed? Do we preach the gospel to them when obviously, they are alive in Christ as a tree already? No. What then? We prune so that they may bear fruit. Prune? Yes... prune as in correcting by the scripture to reprove the works of darkness so that they may go on from salvation which has been done by believing in Jesus Christ unto perfection in running that race by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin so that we may eb received as vessels unto honor in His House at the pre trib rapture event when God shall judge His House first.
Those not abiding in Him as His disciples in bearing fruit, will become castaways to be received later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House as they will testify to the power of God in salvation for even those who just believe in His name.... but it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God, and so the call to depart from iniquity is given out to run that race by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd so that we may be accepted by Him.
If any one runs that race to obtain salvation, then they do so in iniquity which needs repentance before the Bridegroom comes because saved believers are already in that race, but how they run by faith in Him or not, will be judged by Him.
I agree if one applies James' faith in His Providence without works to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation to be in the same way.... which is why it can never be the same kind of faith applied towards God.
Not every saved believer will live as His disciples to bear fruit just as not every tree will produce fruit. But what is needed? Do we preach the gospel to them when obviously, they are alive in Christ as a tree already? No. What then? We prune so that they may bear fruit. Prune? Yes... prune as in correcting by the scripture to reprove the works of darkness so that they may go on from salvation which has been done by believing in Jesus Christ unto perfection in running that race by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin so that we may eb received as vessels unto honor in His House at the pre trib rapture event when God shall judge His House first.
Those not abiding in Him as His disciples in bearing fruit, will become castaways to be received later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House as they will testify to the power of God in salvation for even those who just believe in His name.... but it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God, and so the call to depart from iniquity is given out to run that race by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd so that we may be accepted by Him.
If any one runs that race to obtain salvation, then they do so in iniquity which needs repentance before the Bridegroom comes because saved believers are already in that race, but how they run by faith in Him or not, will be judged by Him.
What follows next below in your quote is a double minded saying. You either believe the above or that faith mentioned below as needing works to have "genuine" saving faith.
You are talking about discipleship; not salvation, when it comes to a saved believer bearing fruit. You do not preach the gospel to already saved believers when they err or commit sin, you prune as in correct, in order that they may bear fruit.
You are talking about discipleship; not salvation, when it comes to a saved believer bearing fruit. You do not preach the gospel to already saved believers when they err or commit sin, you prune as in correct, in order that they may bear fruit.
Indeed, keeping the faith is the good fight, and we all need His help to do even that. We are called to be a light to the world, and they will know we are His disciples when we have love for one another, but that is not to prove anything when it is done as a witness to the world as a light to the world.
There can be do gooders that do not believe in Jesus Christ and so doing good works will not prove anything to the world, but sharing our singular hope in Him does.
1 Peter 3:[SUP]15 [/SUP]But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Which is why Paul taught when a professing believers become wicked, and unreasonable, and have not the faith any more...nor follow after the tradition taught of us and are disorderly, that we are commanded to withdraw from them when they refuse repentance, but not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still. 2 Thesaalonians 3:1-7,14-15 If they ever repent, they are allowed back in to fellowship.
The church is to correct a brother when he is caught in a fault or trespass, but if unrepentive, they are to excommunicate the brother ( Matthew 18:10-17 & 1 Corinthians 5th chapter ) until he does repent or else he runs the risk of being left behind when Jesus will get that lost sheep and he shall be of the one fold that literally hears His voice ( John 10:1-5,& verse 16 , the voice of the King of kings to follow Him after the great tribulation.
So salvation is without works, but what we build on that foundation shall be judged by Him in that day of the pre trib rapture event ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ) when God shall judge His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) as the Bridegroom, before coming back with the pre raptured saints to rule as King of kings; Zechariah 14:1-5
There can be do gooders that do not believe in Jesus Christ and so doing good works will not prove anything to the world, but sharing our singular hope in Him does.
1 Peter 3:[SUP]15 [/SUP]But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Which is why Paul taught when a professing believers become wicked, and unreasonable, and have not the faith any more...nor follow after the tradition taught of us and are disorderly, that we are commanded to withdraw from them when they refuse repentance, but not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still. 2 Thesaalonians 3:1-7,14-15 If they ever repent, they are allowed back in to fellowship.
The church is to correct a brother when he is caught in a fault or trespass, but if unrepentive, they are to excommunicate the brother ( Matthew 18:10-17 & 1 Corinthians 5th chapter ) until he does repent or else he runs the risk of being left behind when Jesus will get that lost sheep and he shall be of the one fold that literally hears His voice ( John 10:1-5,& verse 16 , the voice of the King of kings to follow Him after the great tribulation.
So salvation is without works, but what we build on that foundation shall be judged by Him in that day of the pre trib rapture event ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ) when God shall judge His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) as the Bridegroom, before coming back with the pre raptured saints to rule as King of kings; Zechariah 14:1-5
It is written that believers will fall away from the faith and so we have testimony that He still abides which is why former believers are called to depart from iniquity as well by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help them discern the lies in the world and to see the truth in His words to believe in Him again so that they may be received as vessels unto honor in His House at the pre trib rapture event which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18[/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. [SUP]11 [/SUP]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: [SUP]12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: [SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18[/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. [SUP]11 [/SUP]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: [SUP]12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: [SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
S
I believe scripture does indicate we pray in tongues and that does not necessarily need interpretation:
Praying in the Spirit is mentioned three times in Scripture. First Corinthians 14:15 says, “So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.” Ephesians 6:18 says, “And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.” Jude 20 says, “But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.” So, what exactly does it mean to pray in the Spirit?
The Greek word translated “pray in” can have several different meanings. It can mean “by means of,” “with the help of,” “in the sphere of,” and “in connection to.” Praying in the Spirit does not refer to the words we are saying. Rather, it refers to how we are praying. Praying in the Spirit is praying according to the Spirit’s leading. It is praying for things the Spirit leads us to pray for. Romans 8:26 tells us, “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.”
Some, based on 1 Corinthians 14:15, equate praying in the Spirit with praying in tongues. Discussing the gift of tongues, Paul mentions “pray with my spirit.” First Corinthians 14:14 states that when a person prays in tongues, he does not know what he is saying, since it is spoken in a language he does not know. Further, no one else can understand what is being said, unless there is an interpreter (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). In Ephesians 6:18, Paul instructs us to “pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests.” How are we to pray with all kinds of prayers and requests and pray for the saints, if no one, including the person praying, understands what is being said? Therefore, praying in the Spirit should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will, not as praying in tongues.
source is GOT QUESTIONS and they lend their answers with a conservative sometimes middle of the road response
my caveat that I would add, would be for those who are not aware of what they are praying, should pray in English for their own understanding and ask to be led by the Holy Spirit and to pray prayers according to the will of God
some us praying in tongues as some kind of 'magic' that ensures it's all about God. frankly, I believe, and this is my personal belief, that God will make us aware of at least the general direction of our prayers. it does not good to go on and on with no understanding IMO
people have pulled out the stops and think the Holy Spirit would not allow deception or evil spirits. quite the opposite is true
people open themselves up to deception when they do not follow the biblical injunction set out by Paul regarding the use of the gifts and indulge themselves in fleshy, emotional exhibitions that have nothing to do with the Holy Spirit and actually indicate evil spirits are at work
either follow what scripture teaches or pay the consequences
it is evident that we can pray in English and be praying by the power and discernment initiating from the Spirit of God
people tend to over look this, but it is true
Last edited:
Scripture does not support praying in tongues when that tongues is supposedly manifested by the Holy Spirit when it comes with no interpretation. The scripture you had quoted above is Paul praying and not the Holy Spirit praying. In context, Paul is praying that someone else will interpret the tongue that he is speaking out loud as manifested by the Holy Spirit so that that tongue will be fruitful to himself.
I know you are not meaning praying TO the Holy Spirit and so I hope you are understanding what is written is not the same was praying WITH the Holy Spirit. Praying In the Spirit is acknowledging that the Holy Spirit is in us as we, the saints, pray to God the Father by way of the Son at that throne of grace.
Just as those who worship the Father do so IN spirit & IN truth so as we to pray IN the Spirit as opposing those who pray OUT of the "Spirit" when seeking to receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation. ( Do note that the Holy Spirit is still in those believers when they pray in error as if they are OUT of the Spirit. ) So I believe praying IN the Spirit is in regards to our faith in Jesus Christ of Him being within us & with us always.
Do yourself a favor and look up John 16:13 of whatever Bible version you are using and you will see that the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself or on His own accord or on His own initiative, and that is why modern Bibles have translated Romans 8:26-27 wrongly because in the KJV, the Holy Spirit does have intercessions for us that He makes, but they are unspeakable so that His groaning cannot even be uttered. This is why in Romans 8:27, the "he" is the testimony of Jesus Christ as He is the One that searches our hearts ( Hebrews 4:12-16 ) and thus He is also the One that knows the mind of the Spirit as He is the only One at that throne of grace to give the Spirit's unspoken intercessions for us to the Father for the Spirit.
But that is the point. If tongue heard has to be interpreted for even the tongue speaker to understand for that tongue to be fruitful, then tongues never meant to be used without interpretation, unless otherwise understood by a foreigner.
So when people assume that when tongues comes without interpretation, then how can God not be seen as teh author of confusion if we never know how He will switch the use of tongues as speaking unto the people to what people assume tongues without interpretation are for as a means used by the Holy Spirit to make His intercessions known to God which is in opposition to the truth in John 16:13 in all Bibles.
One can apply that also to mean not praying selfishly or in the flesh as asking for wants, but in the Spirit for needs, contentment, and giving of thanks for what we do have.
So once again, tongues is not being used by the Holy Spirit as a means to speak His intercessions to God when God's gift of tongues is only for speaking unto the people of other languages of men. Paul is praying in his spirit that while he is speaking in tongues as manifested by the Holy Ghost, Paul hopes another will interpret that tongue being spoken through him so that it will be fruitful to himself.
Always confirm everything by Him at that throne of grace by His words as kept in the KJV Bible that has lined up the truth in John 16:13 as found in all Bibles up with Romans 8:26-27 in that KJV Bible that ALL other modern Bibles have not done, and the KJV is the right one to lean on for the meat of His words to discern good & evil by because scripture cannot go against scripture.
It does no good to assume that the supernatural tongue coming with no interpretation is of Him at all when you can find that same kind of supernatural tongue in the world and even have been used before Pentecost when the real God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people had come.
Especially when most tongue speakers today testify to receiving the Holy Spirit "apart" from salvation in order to get that kind of tongue that comes with no interpretation. That is why believers need to test the kind of tongues that they have so that when the tongue comes with no interpretation, it is not the real God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people ( 1 Corinthians 14:21 ) and they do not test those tongues nor the spirit that brought them and so by their testimony, they mislead others into seeking to receive the Holy Spirit again by the sign of that tongue which never comes with interpretation and yet 1 Corinthians 14:22 testify that tongues are not to serve as a sign towards already saved believers for anything, especially by that apostate calling to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation in order to get that tongue which has been already in the world before the church was born on Pentecost.
And yet we are called to come out of the world by proving all things and to abstain from all appearances of evil to be a light to the world to call those sinners away from that supernatural tongue and their spirits to a personal reconciled relationship with God through the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ also known as the Bridegroom in how we are married & to live intimately with God the Father by..
1 John 4:1-6 testify in verses 5 & 6 of the supernatural tongue that was already in the world as they speak vain & profane babbling as found in the world's religions, idolatry, and the occult. That is the spirit of error which is why the Spirit of Truth's tongues can never mimic that kind of tongue that is in the world if God is expected to lead them to repentance from their sinful practices and from that supernatural tongue.
If you think about it, the one world religion has to have a unifying supernatural thing that can bring them altogether and since tongues without interpretation can be found already in major religions of the world, in idolatries, in the occults, and even in cults of christianity, it should be no surprise how the devil will unify every one as being of one religion when they all speak in that same vain & profane supernatural tongue.
It is an assumption on my part on how the devil will unify everyone under a one world religion, but the seeds for that great deception is there already as that kind of tongue can be ecumenical in gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles already.
Because we can pray in English and in the power of the Holy Spirit as He is in us and is with us always as well as the power to live as the sons of God, then there is no need for tongues without interpretation, now is there? It is better to know what we had prayed for so that when the Son answers the prayers, we can give the Father thanks in Jesus's name.
That brings genuine glory to God than speaking in tongues without interpretation, not knowing what we are doing... is it self edification... is it giving of thanks.. is it praying the Holy Spirit's intercessions... is it singing songs...? How can that not be confusing? So no. There can be no partiality in using tongues as a prayer language because it comes with no interpretation and so it cannot be of Him at all.
If our light is to shine apart from the sinners in the world that speak vain & profane babbling supernaturally so that they may leave their spirits and come to the Son and believe in Him to be reconciled to God the Father in the only way to be saved, then believers need to test the spirits and the tongues they bring because we are not suppose to believe every spirit, especially the ones that comes over them apart from salvation, bringing tongues without interpretation.
As signifying as that kind of tongue is as belonging in the world before Pentecost had come, it cannot be of Him if God is calling those sinners out of the world to a personal relationship with God through the only way of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved and to continue to live that reconciled relationship with God through the Son as their personal Good Shepherd, rather than go back to those spirits and that vain & profane babbling tongue that is not of Him at all.
Last edited:
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead (James 2:26). If we claim to have faith yet we produce no works at all, then we demonstrate that we have an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) and not living faith (Ephesians 2:5-10). We show our faith by our works (James 2:18).