Melchizadek

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,353
13,723
113
#21
The phraseology in Hebrews compares Jesus to Melchizedek whose record contains no genealogy. There is a semantic difference between "there is no record" and "it didn't happen"... a difference which some use to make doctrine of questionable validity.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#22
This is physically possible for Shem and Abraham were contemporaries. In fact Shem did not die until after Isaac married. Shem would have been the oldest Patriarch of his blood line and as with many Patriarchs he would have served as the spiritual leader of the family and would have functioned as a priest in making sacrificial atonement for his people. As far as any of the rest of the speculation as to the manner of being Melchizedek was, the Hebrew writer leaves no room for speculation. He was a man.


Hi Old Hermit,


Was Shem a priest?


I thought the first priest was Aaron? No?
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
113
70
Alabama
#23
Hi Old Hermit,Was Shem a priest? I thought the first priest was Aaron? No?
A good example of this type of priestly function is found at least twice in Job. First as Job offered atonement sacrifices for his children and then later as he offered atonement sacrifices for three of his friends.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#24
A good example of this type of priestly function is found at least twice in Job. First as Job offered atonement sacrifices for his children and then later as he offered atonement sacrifices for three of his friends.

Oh.......right you are!!! :) Thanks for that!

I also, while waiting for your response thought of the priests in Egypt and also in Midian.

So it's not like it wasn't something that other nations already had so that made me think it could have been a possibility that the head of the household served as a priest in their home.

I also thought of the offerings that Noah's sons brought before the Lord.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
113
70
Alabama
#25

Oh.......right you are!!! :) Thanks for that!

I also, while waiting for your response thought of the priests in Egypt and also in Midian.

So it's not like it wasn't something that other nations already had so that made me think it could have been a possibility that the head of the household served as a priest in their home.

I also thought of the offerings that Noah's sons brought before the Lord.
Yes, those are good examples as well, but this does not prove that Melchizedek was Shem. That is merely a speculation that cannot be proven.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#26
Yes, those are good examples as well, but this does not prove that Melchizedek was Shem. That is merely a speculation that cannot be proven.

Yes, I agree.

It could have been Jesus or it could have been Shem or anyone else. It's a mystery that's hidden from us, but it is fun to discuss. :)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,770
113
#27
As far as any of the rest of the speculation as to the manner of being Melchizedek was, the Hebrew writer leaves no room for speculation. He was a man.
Au Contraire! The writer to the Hebrews (who I believe is the apostle Paul) writes by Divine inspiration:

Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life
; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

No man can claim to be without human father or mother, but the Son of God -- Jesus Himself -- fully meets this requirement and met Abraham, and Abraham offered Him tithes.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
113
70
Alabama
#28



Yes, I agree.

It could have been Jesus or it could have been Shem or anyone else. It's a mystery that's hidden from us, but it is fun to discuss. :)
No, it was not Jesus, nor was it some special theophany. Melchizedek was a man with an human genealogy just like the Hebrew writer says he was.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#29
From got questions dot com.

Melchizedek, whose name means “king of righteousness,” was a king of Salem (Jerusalem) and priest of the Most High God (Genesis 14:18–20; Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 5:6–11; 6:20—7:28). Melchizedek’s sudden appearance and disappearance in the book of Genesis is somewhat mysterious. Melchizedek and Abraham first met after Abraham’s defeat of Chedorlaomer and his three allies. Melchizedek presented bread and wine to Abraham and his weary men, demonstrating friendship. He bestowed a blessing on Abraham in the name of El Elyon (“God Most High”) and praised God for giving Abraham a victory in battle (Genesis 14:18–20).

Abraham presented Melchizedek with a tithe (a tenth) of all the items he had gathered. By this act Abraham indicated that he recognized Melchizedek as a priest who ranked higher spiritually than he.

In Psalm 110, a messianic psalm written by David (Matthew 22:43), Melchizedek is presented as a type of Christ. This theme is repeated in the book of Hebrews, where both Melchizedek and Christ are considered kings of righteousness and peace. By citing Melchizedek and his unique priesthood as a type, the writer shows that Christ’s new priesthood is superior to the old levitical order and the priesthood of Aaron (Hebrews 7:1–10).

Some propose that Melchizedek was actually a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ, or a Christophany. This is a possible theory, given that Abraham had received such a visit before. Consider Genesis 17 where Abraham saw and spoke with the Lord (El Shaddai) in the form of a man.

Hebrews 6:20 says, “[Jesus] has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” This term would ordinarily indicate a succession of priests holding the office. None are ever mentioned, however, in the long interval from Melchizedek to Christ, an anomaly that can be solved by assuming that Melchizedek and Christ are really the same person. Thus the “order” is eternally vested in Him and Him alone.

Hebrews 7:3 says that Melchizedek was “without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.” The question is whether the author of Hebrews means this actually or figuratively.

If the description in Hebrews is literal, then it is indeed difficult to see how it could be properly applied to anyone but the Lord Jesus Christ. No mere earthly king “remains a priest forever,” and no mere human is “without father or mother.” If Genesis 14 describes a theophany, then God the Son came to give Abraham His blessing (Genesis 14:17–19), appearing as the King of Righteousness (Revelation 19:11,16), the King of Peace (Isaiah 9:6), and the Mediator between God and Man (1 Timothy 2:5).

If the description of Melchizedek is figurative, then the details of having no genealogy, no beginning or ending, and a ceaseless ministry are simply statements accentuating the mysterious nature of the person who met Abraham. In this case, the silence in the Genesis account concerning these details is purposeful and better serves to link Melchizedek with Christ.

Are Melchizedek and Jesus the same person? A case can be made either way. At the very least, Melchizedek is a type of Christ, prefiguring the Lord’s ministry. But it is also possible that Abraham, after his weary battle, met and gave honor to the Lord Jesus Himself.
 
Last edited:

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
113
70
Alabama
#30

Are Melchizedek and Jesus the same person? A case can be made either way. At the very least, Melchizedek is a type of Christ, prefiguring the Lord’s ministry. But it is also possible that Abraham, after his weary battle, met and gave honor to the Lord Jesus Himself.
What you have to understand about Hebrews 7 is that the Holy Spirit is not comparing Christ to Melchizedek nor is he contrasting Melchizedek with Levi. What the Hebrew is doing is contrasting priesthoods. He contrasts the priesthood of Melchizedek to the priesthood of Levi and compares the priesthood of Christ to the priesthood of Melchizedek.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
113
70
Alabama
#31
Jesus' priesthood was exactly like that of Melchizedek. If “without father or mother” properly describes Melchizedek, then it also properly, and in the same manner, describes Jesus. If "without beginning of days or end of life" means that Melchizedek was never born or died then the same must be true of Jesus. If it means that Melchizedek had no genealogy, it also means that Jesus had no genealogy. This language cannot mean one thing for Melchizedek and something else for Jesus since the comparison is based on similarities. This cannot refer to the men but to their respective priesthoods. Luke records the fact that Jesus had a genealogy which he traces all the way back to Adam.
 
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#32
No, it was not Jesus, nor was it some special theophany. Melchizedek was a man with an human genealogy just like the Hebrew writer says he was.
Which men have lived on Earth and had no genealogy? Certainly Melchizadek was no normal human. He had to be Jesus because of his lack of genealogy. No father mother etc. So he was not just a man.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#33
AMEN!...............................................................................................
 
Jul 23, 2017
879
31
0
#34
Christ Jesus is the High Priest after da order of Melchizadek.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#35
Christ Jesus is the High Priest after da order of Melchizadek.
That would be it.

Psalm 110:4
The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind, “You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.”
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#36
I do not know how one would be able to prove any connection between Shem and Jerusalem beyond mere speculation.
Well not everything is always going to be 100% proof, though some believe the city of Salem is actually an older name for Jerusalem.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#37
In Chazalic literature, specifically Targum Jonathan, Targum Yerushalmi, and the Babylonian Talmud, presents the name as a nickname title for Shem, the son of Noah.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
113
70
Alabama
#38
Well not everything is always going to be 100% proof, though some believe the city of Salem is actually an older name for Jerusalem.
Yes, clearly Salem is Jerusalem but I have seen no way to connect Shem to it.
 
Z

Zi

Guest
#39
What does Jeru mean? Or add to the word Salem to mean something else?

Just curious to see if anyone knows..
Yes, clearly Salem is Jerusalem but I have seen no way to connect Shem to it.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
113
70
Alabama
#40
What does Jeru mean? Or add to the word Salem to mean something else?

Just curious to see if anyone knows..
I seem to recall reading a piece on this point somewhere down the line that the prefix Jeru means sacred and as we all know the word Salem means peace. If this is true, the definition would be sacred place of peace.