Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

That's the thing with these OSAS's, easy believists, & hypergracers, they all have the same thing in common: no commitment, no submission, & very little obedience.

It's no wonder they don't believe in the Falling Away.

This posts proves a simple truth.....that you, like the Pharisee of old, You sit in the seat of judgment judging without the facts and based upon your working for bias opinion.....you assume that we do not obey, commit or submit to the word....erroneously I might add!

 

[TruthTalk]

yup i will admit you are in the kingdom of the son and all his glory but you are not in his kingdom which is heaven or are you ?

I am, "And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus." Ephesians2:6

 

[dcontroversal]

Many are leaving..... Several because the rules aren't being enforced, especially in the BDF.

Yeah....I don't believe that.....

 

[UnderGrace]

Thank you...teachers do like to learn ...comes with territory I guess, but sometimes my brain gets tired as I get older LOL

I was so lost in the theology of men, being an avid reader, it did me very little good though,

I had to start afresh and find a clearer understanding of what it means to be born again in Him and learn what means to live in Him without all that theology, if someone talks from the heart they have my attention, and here I believe Paul speaks from the heart ...

[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

[SUP]39 [/SUP]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8

When we are persuaded (that deep down conviction) of God's truth, His love will come upon us and we cannot help but be more persuaded. God loves it when we agree with Him.

I am so please you are here on CC as we travel this road of learning about Jesus, until we meet Him face to face

Hi UG...I love your eagerness to learn, you have a lovely freshness about you, that`s a valuable lesson many could learn from you...xox...

 

[JIMBO43]

God tells me "wait. I have things in this life you need you to do before you can come back home to me."

I believe God has a purpose for all of our lives...otherwise we would be dead already or in His kingdom with Him.

sorry dont get you ? yopu need me to do or you need to do ?...i guess its the latter,,,, what you proposinh here is conditional..


we all know that unconditional love from both parties is needed to full fill the law..

 

[dcontroversal]

I definitely believe there is a great falling away and has been since the gospel has first went out. Remember that the last days started in Acts 2.

The reality is people can be going to church every time the doors are open, praying 5 hours a day, read their bibles 3 hours every day, witness to every thing that moves, be pastoring a church for 30 years, read the scriptures in Greek and Hebrew, live good moral lives and still be "fallen away" from the faith.

The "fallen away" which is the Greek word [FONT="Gentium" !important]aphistēmi [/FONT]really means to "with draw from, depart from, abstain from

People "fall away from the faith" when they rely on what they do or don't do for life and righteousness instead of relying on what Christ has already done.

The funny thing about the words apo-hystamie is that it means to not only stand off from the truth, but also carries the idea of disassociation from the truth and those who know the truth.....

I.E. Somewhat similar to what Peter did when he denied being one of the disciples of Jesus....obviously with more heat and vehemently standing against the truth.....

It seems to be generically applied by many who do not understand the full scope of the word apostasy!

 

[Bogadile]

Jesus atoning works justified God's mercy, (it did not satisfy God's wrath). So, God the Father could now dispense the mercy that HE always desired to give through the covenant of reconciliation, whereby Jesus purchased our souls at Calvary with His blood.

Err. So God's mercy could not be justified without Jesus' sacrifice? Yet it did not satisfy God's wrath? Am I dumb or do those two kind of uhm?...... what?
Is this not true: In pelagianism you can just repent and stop sinning, and ask God for forgiveness, right? Well where does Jesus enter the picture? You have said it is not a payment for sins, so the blood is there to "make God able" to forgive past repented sins? So the only difference between Jesus' sacrifice and animal sacrifices in your view would be that one is a one time shot?
How exactly is this not worse than the old covenant? Under the mosaic system you could sin, repent and cover it with an animal sacrifice, but in your pelagian scheme of things you repent, stop sinning for a day, sin the next day and now you're lost no sacrifice remains, since Jesus only died once.

I urge you to reconsider your views, or maybe I have misunderstood yours, if that is the case, my bad, sorry.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

your first and most greivious error is the unbiblical concept known as payment for sin..Of a truth I tell you there is no payment for sin, for the wages of sin is death..The payment for sin myth was invented by the Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas, and then built upon by Luther, and Calvin some 300 years later....simple logic presupposes that if a debt is paid for, it cannot later be forgiven, nor can mercy be applied. Example: If someone pays off your credit card the bank cannot forgive your debt because there is no debt left to forgive. You will find this truth in the parable of the unforgiving servant....nobody paid for his sin debt it was all forgiven by the king, but he in turn could not forgive his own debtors, so the king revoked His forgiveness and cast that evil man into prison. sidenote: it doesn't sound like OSAS to me......Anyway what in fact happened, is that Jesus atoning works justified God's mercy, (it did not satisfy God's wrath). So, God the Father could now dispense the mercy that HE always desired to give through the covenant of reconciliation, whereby Jesus purchased our souls at Calvary with His blood.

Covenant theology has all but been forgotten in the annuls of human history over the last 500 years. This new covenant is what Hebrews 9 is all about. However, the payment for sin Penal Substitution myth has blinded the minds of 100s of millions looking for a flesh pleasing gospel that allows for the covenant to be broken, yet still enter into the kingdom. Turning the grace of God into lasciviousness but its still pie in the sky when you die in the sweet bye and bye...

Jesus finished the needful works of reconciliation through the conditions of God's new covenant, Heb. 9. Whereby man through repentance could now come to the mercy seat of God (Christ our propitiation), and be reconciled back to God's favour through the baptisms of repentance for the remission of past sins...Its not about accepting Jesus, but rather the commandment to repent and believe/obey the gospel from heart purity. In actuality its God who accepts use after we have come clean with Him by preparing our heart in repentance, and then gives the answer of the tongue if the guile has been removed, (the seed that falls on good soil).....The preparation of the heart belongs to man, and the answer of thee tongue is of God, Proverbs 16-1. ..................dig deep and be blessed in God's truth, not the old wine and tiresome traditions of men...

Could men in the OT find favor with God?

 

[Ariel82]

sorry dont get you ? yopu need me to do or you need to do ?...i guess its the latter,,,, what you proposinh here is conditional..


we all know that unconditional love from both parties is needed to full fill the law..

No only God's agape love which was given through Jesus death and resurrection is needed to fulfill the law..

And you lost me on your response in the first part.

 

[dcontroversal]

I actually think willybob made a good point. We don't sit around waiting for God to give us MORE of His Holy spirit because God has filled our cup to overflowing...we need to learn and grow so that we can hold more...the limitations is because of us and not God's blessings.

I am interested in seeing a verse in context that states God gives us more of His Spirit.....the only exception I can think of is John having the Spirit from the womb...one either has it or they don't!

 

[JIMBO43]

I am, "And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus." Ephesians2:6

ok my friend good scripture .........[h=1]Epheshians 2:6[/h]Then he picked us up and set us down in highest heaven in company with Jesus, our Messiah.


ok this is beautiful and i really dont want to take away anthing from this scripture but one thing to notice is its not speaking of the kingdom that you have to enter by keeping your faith to the end ... this is a past tense kingdom and not the future tense kingdom.. hope that doesnt hurt

 

[JIMBO43]

No only God's agape love which was given through Jesus death and resurrection is needed to fulfill the law..

And you lost me on your response in the first part.

God enables you to good works however you have to obey that calling.thats how he knows your his.. tell me why would he need to know this ?

 

[stonesoffire]

If it were not meat, so many on this thread would not "Choke" on it and call those of us who know it is truth, false teachers for promoting sinless-perfection....and that we do not sin, even though we clearly never say that...if it were not meat, people would not "choke" on it when you tell them they are sin forgiven saints who will still sin, but they are no longer a woe/poe sinner saved by grace...if it were not meat, they would not "choke" on revelation knowledge that sinner and saint are past/present conditions and not who they and that righteousness is position.....If it were not meat, this thread would not even exist....

Stop giving people a cop out for not coming into full age...all your are doing is parting the lips to fit the bottle of milk...people do not come into spiritual maturity from failure to hear....1 Corinthians 2 says so...People do not come into spiritual maturity because they refuse to....because to do so, you have to die completely.....and people do not like the thought of dying....or giving up things to be ALL IN.....

It's not taught in most churches Meggido. But,where is it taught? In writings like Kenyon. Was it you that called him false?

Bruce has been teaching this. Have you backed him? I see Cee teaching it. Undergrace teaching it. I've taught it because I know how one must be grounded on the foundation which is only Jesus Christ the Righteous, because from there one has the security to go on to maturity without looking back at what we were.

I see stunned catching it now and releasing her from condemnation. What does this do? It make one fall in love with Jesus..causes true repentance from what we are naturally, and desire to know what we are in Him. Then...can one move on.

Why are you at odds here?

A secure foundation with the right building on it will build the temples or the kingdom of God within us and that worship might flow upward and then outward to touch men. Anointing then comes and true works of God commence.

Preach Jesus Christ the Righteous one...and we in Him until we all are in unity...then maybe His cry of my bones are out of joint will cease.

 

[dcontroversal]

SO.....
What would have happened to Abel if he never offered a Better sacrifice?
What would have happened to Noah if he never built the ark?
What would have happened to Abraham if he never WENT?
What would have happened to Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets if they NEVER:
Conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight.

No offence, but you have proven nothing....Abel was already saved before he offered blood, so was Noah, David etc....and to be frank...you have proven your inability to admit truth without being filled with vitriol and the same judgmental attitude that permeates all workers for!

 

[TruthTalk]

works maintain and keep the ship at an even keel.... upset them works and guess what,,,, no even keel yup its not rocket science is it

Yup JIMBO43, A clean ship is a, "Happy Ship"

Grace is the basis for Our Christian identity:

Christians live every day by the grace of God. We receive forgiveness according to the riches of God’s grace, and grace drives our sanctification. Paul tells us, “the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives” (Titus 2:11). Spiritual growth does not happen overnight; we “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 2:18). Grace transforms our desires, motivations, and behavior. In fact, God’s grace grounds and empowers everything in the Christian life.

By the grace of God I am what I am.” (1 Corinthians 1:10
Our standing before God: “this grace in which we stand.” (Romans 5
Our behavior: “We behaved in the world … by the grace of God.” (2 Corinthians 2:12)

Attribute: Christianity.com: What is Grace? Understanding Christianity

​

 

[Ariel82]

God enables you to good works however you have to obey that calling.thats how he knows your his.. tell me why would he need to know this ?

God knows our hearts. Our works don't prove we are saved to God but is a way for God to lead others back to Him,

We obey God so that we grow up and become more mature in Him. The more we obey,the more we are entrusted with...God only gives those He trust good works..not as a test but as a blessing and a way to share His love with others,

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

When I couldn't see clearly what was going on in here, why were you guys not harsh with me as you are with these other men?

 

[Ariel82]

When I couldn't see clearly what was going on in here, why were you guys not harsh with me as you are with these other men?

Who is being harsh?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

your first and most greivious error is the unbiblical concept known as payment for sin..

this shows you know nothing of the OT, nothing of the law, and nothing of scripture.

Study the word, then get back with me, maybe then we can talk.

 

[willybob]

there is a huge difference between payment for sin, and Jesus purchasing our souls at Calvary...be blessed