Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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U
I so enjoy how you preach the role of grace in the life of the believer
I guess I would flip this around to deny self, because it is in grace that our striving ceases (self effort to be good) and it His presence ....it is His very nature within us that puts down the old man so that self is denied
I am sure this is how you meant it but that having dealt with various legalistic preachers who preach self-denial it has that connotation of self work and it brings back bad memories. LOL
I guess I would flip this around to deny self, because it is in grace that our striving ceases (self effort to be good) and it His presence ....it is His very nature within us that puts down the old man so that self is denied
I am sure this is how you meant it but that having dealt with various legalistic preachers who preach self-denial it has that connotation of self work and it brings back bad memories. LOL
Very good! Grace not only brings salvation, it also teaches us. Teaching means instruct, educate, and carries the idea of nurture, which also involves disciplining us. God’s grace is a discipline of self-denial and an instructor to live sensibly, righteously and godly in this present age.
I so enjoy how you preach the role of grace in the life of the believer
I guess I would flip this around to deny self, because it is in grace that our striving ceases (self effort to be good) and it His presence ....it is His very nature within us that puts down the old man so that self is denied
I am sure this is how you meant it but that having dealt with various legalistic preachers who preach self-denial it has that connotation of self work and it brings back bad memories. LOL
I guess I would flip this around to deny self, because it is in grace that our striving ceases (self effort to be good) and it His presence ....it is His very nature within us that puts down the old man so that self is denied
I am sure this is how you meant it but that having dealt with various legalistic preachers who preach self-denial it has that connotation of self work and it brings back bad memories. LOL
I'm still fumed up that I fell for it for so long. My joy far outweighs that but the anger is still there and I want to give a drink of water to those still in this prison.
How could I have ever believed that God would say to me I must not have anger in my heart or I murder, and then not see that the way I was thinking about it meant that God was asking the impossible of me.
And yet, even though I was still in that prison, He DID increase my virtue. He DID give me some victories. Because I gave up trying and saw it was useless. So He answered my trust in Him to do it even while I still had some fetters...
How could I have ever believed that God would say to me I must not have anger in my heart or I murder, and then not see that the way I was thinking about it meant that God was asking the impossible of me.
And yet, even though I was still in that prison, He DID increase my virtue. He DID give me some victories. Because I gave up trying and saw it was useless. So He answered my trust in Him to do it even while I still had some fetters...
U
Hi, no one has called me a heretic yet, not even you ... so no need to apologize
I was only using the word for added emphasis about how I am viewed since Megiddo has told me to be quiet which can only mean my words are heretical
Anyway, yes I agree we are glorified when we die, however disconnecting ourselves from the vine for sin, then you must admit none of us stands a chance since the sermon on the mount has raised the bar beyond the reaches of any of us.
As a child I was raised catholic, and your belief system sounds like Catholicism to me, if you are honest with yourself you will know a person cannot achieve the perfection of Jesus so I say believe that He has paid the penalty for sin and restored our union with God and to those who believe this for themselves they will receive His free gift of salvation.
so no need to apologizeI was only using the word for added emphasis about how I am viewed since Megiddo has told me to be quiet which can only mean my words are heretical
Anyway, yes I agree we are glorified when we die, however disconnecting ourselves from the vine for sin, then you must admit none of us stands a chance since the sermon on the mount has raised the bar beyond the reaches of any of us.
As a child I was raised catholic, and your belief system sounds like Catholicism to me, if you are honest with yourself you will know a person cannot achieve the perfection of Jesus so I say believe that He has paid the penalty for sin and restored our union with God and to those who believe this for themselves they will receive His free gift of salvation.
U
Also, people are not saying we are the finished work of Christ, if that were true we would be glorified, it is because of Christ's
finished work that we are saved, there is no work we can add to what Jesus has already done so completely on our behalf,
our job is to believe it and become a new creation in Him, the flesh is still there, but we have been spiritually reborn from above
and
now we have access to His grace which is His very essence that conforms us to His image.
I know it can be so hard to see/understand what people are saying if one has been taught differently, I can only say that would you not prefer a life of peace and grace then a life striving in your own self-effort to put the old man down?
finished work that we are saved, there is no work we can add to what Jesus has already done so completely on our behalf,
our job is to believe it and become a new creation in Him, the flesh is still there, but we have been spiritually reborn from above
and
now we have access to His grace which is His very essence that conforms us to His image.
I know it can be so hard to see/understand what people are saying if one has been taught differently, I can only say that would you not prefer a life of peace and grace then a life striving in your own self-effort to put the old man down?
Hi, no one has called me a heretic yet, not even you ... so no need to apologize
I was only using the word for added emphasis about how I am viewed since Megiddo has told me to be quiet which can only mean my words are heretical
Anyway, yes I agree we are glorified when we die, however disconnecting ourselves from the vine for sin, then you must admit none of us stands a chance since the sermon on the mount has raised the bar beyond the reaches of any of us.
so no need to apologizeI was only using the word for added emphasis about how I am viewed since Megiddo has told me to be quiet which can only mean my words are heretical
Anyway, yes I agree we are glorified when we die, however disconnecting ourselves from the vine for sin, then you must admit none of us stands a chance since the sermon on the mount has raised the bar beyond the reaches of any of us.
catholicism is only the venom.. meaning just as the moses was lifted up so must we of what ever form... be it catholic or jew..
And to be lifted up we must fullfill the requirements...
U
I agree we can disconnect from grace, and Paul teaches over and over to stay connected by the renewing of our minds and remembering not to go back to self effort.
But again the grace that saves when we first believe is the grace that gives us eternal life as a gift, that is different than abiding in grace, abiding in grace is not for salvation abiding is for having our life hid in Him.
If we did not have His eternal life within us (His spiritual presence which is eternal) we could not abide anyway,
The vine has to sprout the branch or graft it in FIRST before it can abide
You need to see what that first event is.
But again the grace that saves when we first believe is the grace that gives us eternal life as a gift, that is different than abiding in grace, abiding in grace is not for salvation abiding is for having our life hid in Him.
If we did not have His eternal life within us (His spiritual presence which is eternal) we could not abide anyway,
The vine has to sprout the branch or graft it in FIRST before it can abide
You need to see what that first event is.
U
I really think you are misunderstanding, misinterpreting what they, and I, and others are saying.
The done deal is eternal life, we are not yet glorified, it is HIS perfection in us, His gift because we have believed in Him, that we cannot save ourselves, behold the lamb who takes away the sins of the world.
Be like a child, dispense of all that you have learned and read what they are saying without a set of prior beliefs and you will see the Truth shining through.
The done deal is eternal life, we are not yet glorified, it is HIS perfection in us, His gift because we have believed in Him, that we cannot save ourselves, behold the lamb who takes away the sins of the world.
Be like a child, dispense of all that you have learned and read what they are saying without a set of prior beliefs and you will see the Truth shining through.
Today on tbn.. the preacher said the very thing that bites you has the cure to heal you to... so true ..
how many times have you been left hurt coz someone never said they where sorry to you ?.. the minute they apolagized to you you felt reasured that they where still your friend ?..
Some would say here well you should have forgiven them anyway.. noooo nooo noooo has nothing to do with that.. its to do with feeling a sence of loss of friendship and trust.......
some would say what so you cant carry on being a friend..... noo nooo noooo has nothing to do with that either..
its To DO with the fact that no matter what good path you take,,, the same snake keeps biting back.. and that snake is never going to heal you only destroy you......
yup the enemy...
Dont be suprised then when i tell you that our battle is not against flesh and blood but the dark forces at work....
THIS IS A NOTHER WORKS WE MUST DO...
how many times have you been left hurt coz someone never said they where sorry to you ?.. the minute they apolagized to you you felt reasured that they where still your friend ?..
Some would say here well you should have forgiven them anyway.. noooo nooo noooo has nothing to do with that.. its to do with feeling a sence of loss of friendship and trust.......
some would say what so you cant carry on being a friend..... noo nooo noooo has nothing to do with that either..
its To DO with the fact that no matter what good path you take,,, the same snake keeps biting back.. and that snake is never going to heal you only destroy you......
yup the enemy...
Dont be suprised then when i tell you that our battle is not against flesh and blood but the dark forces at work....
THIS IS A NOTHER WORKS WE MUST DO...
A
So if Satan (aka the snake) bites you...does he then heal you?
No what hurts you doesn't heal you. God's grace and forgiveness is what heals. God changes your heart and allows you to love the other person even if they hurt you. Your unexpected love and forgiveness heals that person and then your friendship can be restored.
The snake did not heal you, the antivenom in the form of God's grace and love is what heals.
No what hurts you doesn't heal you. God's grace and forgiveness is what heals. God changes your heart and allows you to love the other person even if they hurt you. Your unexpected love and forgiveness heals that person and then your friendship can be restored.
The snake did not heal you, the antivenom in the form of God's grace and love is what heals.