Not By Works

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willybob

Guest
Have you ever really studied John 15? No where in John 15 does it say that abiding is doing nothing and just receiving...
doing nothing and just receiving? hmmm, sounds like the story of the little red hen..........
 
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The Blood Of Christ...

a. Covers our sin
b. Has paid for our sin
c. Cleanses us from our sin

Jesus who knew no sin became sin for us and paid the entire human sin debt (sins of the whole world). The only way a man dies in his sins is if he fails to acknowledge Jesus biblically by faith..Post 27459 is full of error......
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Greetings stunnedbygrace

The OT lambs as you say were a shadow of the Messiah to come...Those lambs were innocent having no sin, and so was Jesus innocent having no sin...The life is in the blood and this is what God required for atonement..What is atonement? Atonement, a beautiful word created by William Tyndale in the English, he created many English words by combing the Hebrew, an the Greek with middle English, forming modern English. The man was a genius in languages, he probably accomplished more than the 47 KJB scholars combined who came about 70 years after him.."Passover" is another beautiful word developed by Tyndale in the English........

Anyway, the blood did not pay for sins, it provided an atoning work that God required so HE could dispense HIS mercy and forgive sins...Animals could only cover sin, they could not take away sin, Heb.10-4,11, however the Lamb of God, the Messiah came to take away sins, as prophesied He would in the mist of Daniels 70th week when HE was cut off for our transgressions at the cross, and take away sins, Daniel 9:24-27...John the baptizer said, behold the Lamb of God which TAKETH AWAY sins, John 1-29....Jesus blood has the power to remove sin from our life, (HE shall save his people from their sin, Matt. 1-21...For this is My COVENANT with them, when I shall TAKE AWAY their sins, Romans 11-27......And ye know that he was manifested totake away our sins; and in him there is no sin, John 1-35... If His blood could only cover sin it would have no more power than the OT lamb sacrifices....

The blood of Christ does not cover sin, it remits sin if one has truly repented and is not out to get one over on God, by returning to their vomit...God sees the heart in repentance and looks for purity. He looks to see if their is any guile left therein; that is what is meant when the text says God searches the hearts of men..He searches the heart for guile and to see if the heart is sincere......

Would be most pleased to answer any more questions concerning the atonement that you might have...Its probably the most misunderstood doctrine in the NT......................be blessed always in you searching
This is interesting, thank you (though I would not say it was the most misunderstood doctrine of the NT :)). I looked up the word atone (this displays results for atonement also), which is found seventy (70) times in the KJV, only occurring once in the NT (Romans 5:11), whereas propitiation occurs only three times in all of Scripture (KJV), all in the NT.

In Leviticus 16, with the yearly atoning sacrifice of goats and a ram for the sins of all Israel, the one goat is slaughtered and the other released to the wild, carrying the sins of the nation. Verse 29:
“This is to be a lasting ordinance for you: On the tenth day of the seventh month you must deny yourselves and not do any work—whether native-born or a foreigner residing among you—30 because on this day atonement will be made for you, to cleanse you. Then, before the Lord, you will be clean from all your sins. 31 It is a day of Sabbath rest, and you must deny yourselves; it is a lasting ordinance."

They are cleansed of all their sins before the Lord, which is of course a foreshadowing of what Christ has done for us, and not only us, but for the sins of the whole world, though only those who believe by grace through faith receive the promise of salvation via life ever after, for the unforgiven sin of denying the work of God results in the second death, for the wages of sin is death, and without the covering of Christ's shed righteous blood on the cross, they are judged according to the law and subject to the the penalty under law.

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord
Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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The purpose for the (yearly atonement) ritual is made very clear in several places. It is to cleanse you "from all your sins" (Lev 16:30). Other passages make it clear that such cleansing results in saving the life of the participant (cf., e.g., Lev 17:11). The restoring of pure relationship is an important result, too, since the atonement is for all "uncleanness and rebellion of the Israelites, whatever their sins have been" (Lev 16:16). Thus Israel is reunited in purity to its God by the atoning sacrifice for sins. (Reconciliation.)

The symbolic import of the sacrifices is so detailed that three different actions were necessary to display everything that God apparently intended us to understand about the way he was to deal with sin. The sacrificial death of the first goat showed clearly that the offense of sin requires the punishment of death (Eze 18:4). The sending of the second goat into the wilderness with the sins laid on the top of its head emphasizes that sin will be removed from the person and the community "as far as the east is from the west" (Psalm 103:12). The burning of the sacrifice so that it is consumed shows the power of God over sin, completely destroying it so that it can bother the supplicant no more. What is Atonement? Bible Meaning and Definition
 
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The purpose for the (yearly atonement) ritual is made very clear in several places. It is to cleanse you "from all your sins" (Lev 16:30). Other passages make it clear that such cleansing results in saving the life of the participant (cf., e.g., Lev 17:11). The restoring of pure relationship is an important result, too, since the atonement is for all "uncleanness and rebellion of the Israelites, whatever their sins have been" (Lev 16:16). Thus Israel is reunited in purity to its God by the atoning sacrifice for sins. (Reconciliation.)

The symbolic import of the sacrifices is so detailed that three different actions were necessary to display everything that God apparently intended us to understand about the way he was to deal with sin. The sacrificial death of the first goat showed clearly that the offense of sin requires the punishment of death (Eze 18:4). The sending of the second goat into the wilderness with the sins laid on the top of its head emphasizes that sin will be removed from the person and the community "as far as the east is from the west" (Psalm 103:12). The burning of the sacrifice so that it is consumed shows the power of God over sin, completely destroying it so that it can bother the supplicant no more. What is Atonement? Bible Meaning and Definition
Just a question here meg an honest one.. on the tenth day of the seventh month you must rest and deny your self of work which ive missed,, i never knew this,,, anyhows as this is revering to the old t ,, there sins where removed without animal sacrifice meaning Gods grace was sufficient then ?. let me elaberate..

On the tenth day of the seventh month you must deny yourselves and not do any work—whether native-born or a foreigner residing among you...


Obviously this scripture is for both Jew and gentile the whole world... we are to dedicate a day once a year to the Lord an lasting ordanance it is called.. tell me have you done this.. this is obviously a very sacred day that is holy and not law ?..

This is where being under the law is an easy believist wouldnt you say ? ill elaberate..

There is two sides to the old testement one which moral law and one which is a holy law of the spirit.

tell why do so many dish the holy laws for moral laws ?

why do so many not read this and say we can be forgiven for following the holy law ?






 
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a further elaberation. Is it is written the law is holy in the new t.. meaning we need to honor it not dish it and we need to follow the holy law.

we can do the moral law by the same way we putour coats on of a morning,,,, meaning we can do moral law religiously like a waring your religion like a coat of a morning...


however following the holy law we need to follow each day for that not to gain salvation but not to disconect ourselves from the vine.
 
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You know.....from day one men have been hammering out the word on the anvil of controversy....this is nothing new and will continue until Jesus sits on his throne ruling with a rod of iron.....!
when Jesus rules this world he will only need love not a rod. this is forcing your rule dc not having patience or empathy do you know what that means ?
 
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If you view this is heretical, I am fine with that, I have been a born again believer for over thirty years and the ones I spent under Lordship salvation teaching were the worst years of my Christian life, I prefer to live in the victory and liberty of Jesus and the knowledge of His finished work of the cross and if someone wants to know my experiences I am good with that.
i am sorry for calling you a heritic however i felt what you where saying was heritic....coz all tho the finished work of christ was accomplished by him ,,,, we have not fullfilled that work of christ untill we have recieved are new body...

this is what is heritic to me that people say they are the finished work of Christ,, we do not fully become like christ untill we recieve are new body,,, may you forgive me now for expressing that what you say we are not to strive for salvation..
we need to strive to refrain from anger when it hits
Meaning if we carry on in anger and do unthinkable damage we may disconnect ourselves from the vine.

besides you where liking peoples posts who where calling me a heritic.. so what i am suppose to think ? coz i really cant see striving to refrain from anger when your angry for fear of losing your salvation ? not holy
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
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Later I understood that I had been trying to be good by my own effort instead of believing Him to make me what He said He would.

So first, He had to show me there was no good thing in me because I was deceived and thought I was pretty good. :rolleyes: But THEN, He had to get me to see that just knowing this and trying to change it wouldn't work, because all my attempts at righteousness were filthy, polluted and useless. I had to wait for and rely on Him to do something about it.

I know we all have our own experience and growth and it's very personal between us and Him, and we all have different ditches we fall into, but in answer to your question of HOW do we do it if it's already all been done?? - the answer is we don't do it, we can't, no matter how hard we try - He does. It's by trusting Him
Very good! Grace not only brings salvation, it also teaches us. Teaching means instruct, educate, and carries the idea of nurture, which also involves disciplining us. God’s grace is a discipline of self-denial and an instructor to live sensibly, righteously and godly in this present age. :)
 
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we are also fragile miss means we act out emotionaly too but grabbing someone by the collar or the ear or the tie on the shirt collar rather than punching them is very holy in my book...[video=youtube;lB6a-iD6ZOY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB6a-iD6ZOY[/video]
 
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Very good! Grace not only brings salvation, it also teaches us. Teaching means instruct, educate, and carries the idea of nurture, which also involves disciplining us. God’s grace is a discipline of self-denial and an instructor to live sensibly, righteously and godly in this present age. :)
if that was so then why have some churches allowed gay marriage.. i know they where never saved in the first place .... dont think so buddy... and even the the churches was disccusing a radical new inclusion for gays ?.. your grace leads to this pal whether you like to hear it or not.. which i hope you do coz what your saying is we dont need to bare fruits...
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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if that was so then why have some churches allowed gay marriage.. i know they where never saved in the first place .... dont think so buddy... and even the the churches was disccusing a radical new inclusion for gays ?.. your grace leads to this pal whether you like to hear it or not.. which i hope you do coz what your saying is we dont need to bare fruits...
Not all churches are genuine Christian churches, yet that does not negate the grace of God. Grace brings salvation, but not everyone responds to grace through faith and is saved. Grace also teaches, but not everyone responds to teaching. It's God's grace (not my grace) and it does not lead to gay marriage so your rant is pointless.
 
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the gay agenda..

Gays love and care for mankind buy cooking there partners meals cleaning the house and going to work. they also love by going to work.

in other ways they love you by being a caring friend there for at your hour of need.

How ever they fall short and do the unthinkable...

now we have woman athletes emerging who carry more testosterone than any othe female looking like a male in features to..

so bizzar anyways is this goingt o be our new world of evolution that is more gays than females or is this world truly run by satan ?
 
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can genetic birth be an acceptance of birth be altered to produce super athletes ?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
The key word in Mailman post is self denial....most people who engage in any sexual sin don't see the point in denying their selfish desires and submitting to God's will and plan for marriage.
 
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[video=youtube;LRO7DSlqdX0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRO7DSlqdX0[/video]
 
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Ariel82

Guest
can genetic birth be an acceptance of birth be altered to produce super athletes ?
Most athletic ability is NOT genetic but learnt over a long period of repeated training and exercise.

The DNA code has degraded since Adam and Eve and that's why we have genetic diseases.

God made us all super athletics. It is sin and it's affect on the world that made us less than that.
 
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[video=youtube;oRjPoNez3jg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRjPoNez3jg[/video]
 
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[video=youtube;DN0CBWefr9I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN0CBWefr9I[/video]
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Wow dcon, thank you so much for drawing peoples attention to truth and this error around what Christ accomplished.

I so love the way you keep truth (the gospel) simple and to the point, you see so well when someone diverts from the gospel message


The Blood Of Christ...

a. Covers our sin
b. Has paid for our sin
c. Cleanses us from our sin

Jesus who knew no sin became sin for us and paid the entire human sin debt (sins of the whole world). The only way a man dies in his sins is if he fails to acknowledge Jesus biblically by faith..Post 27459 is full of error......