Not By Works
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John 9.40-41
[SUP]40 [/SUP]Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” [SUP]41 [/SUP]Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.
John 10.1-10
10 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. [SUP]2 [/SUP]But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. [SUP]3 [/SUP]To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. [SUP]4 [/SUP]When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. [SUP]5 [/SUP]A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.” [SUP]6 [/SUP]This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]So Jesus said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
The thief is always misrepresented as the devil in this scripture.....it is also always misrepresented that Jesus was talking to the disciples and them alone in John 10, but the discourse of John 10 is a continuation of the story starting in John 9....The conversation Jesus starts with the Pharisees [religion] in John 9.40 continues all through John 10 and his conversation is with the Pharisees and he condemns the pharisees and their religion in both chapters.....
if we understand who, what and where of the passages, we know that Jesus was talking and defining religion....
[SUP]40 [/SUP]Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” [SUP]41 [/SUP]Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.
John 10.1-10
10 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. [SUP]2 [/SUP]But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. [SUP]3 [/SUP]To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. [SUP]4 [/SUP]When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. [SUP]5 [/SUP]A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.” [SUP]6 [/SUP]This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]So Jesus said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
The thief is always misrepresented as the devil in this scripture.....it is also always misrepresented that Jesus was talking to the disciples and them alone in John 10, but the discourse of John 10 is a continuation of the story starting in John 9....The conversation Jesus starts with the Pharisees [religion] in John 9.40 continues all through John 10 and his conversation is with the Pharisees and he condemns the pharisees and their religion in both chapters.....
if we understand who, what and where of the passages, we know that Jesus was talking and defining religion....
As to John talking to gnostics in 1 John - do a search and you will find over 25 websites that say John was addressing gnostics in his letter. But again you are free to believe what you want....
..
I understand your opinion here as I was taught that too in my Pentecostal church ( I'm sure other denominations hold this view too ) but I don't see that in the new creation that is in Christ which is why I could never replace Christ and what He has done for anything else - no matter how pious it seems to be.
I see us cleansed by the blood of Jesus just like 1 John 1:7 says because we walk in the light. Believers do not go in an out of the light nor does Christ go in and out of us when we give in to the flesh and sin by the deeds of the body whether with our tongue or otherwise.
You are free in Christ to believe how you like. Walk on with your Lord as you see fit within you...
..I understand your opinion here as I was taught that too in my Pentecostal church ( I'm sure other denominations hold this view too ) but I don't see that in the new creation that is in Christ which is why I could never replace Christ and what He has done for anything else - no matter how pious it seems to be.
I see us cleansed by the blood of Jesus just like 1 John 1:7 says because we walk in the light. Believers do not go in an out of the light nor does Christ go in and out of us when we give in to the flesh and sin by the deeds of the body whether with our tongue or otherwise.
You are free in Christ to believe how you like. Walk on with your Lord as you see fit within you...
couldnt have put it any better my self... be careful tho bro the more you post scripture the more you get scoffed at,,,, i think we have to find away for theese workers against to not deny God,,, but what could that be ? coz almost 30000 pages later and ther still denying works for not much really ,,,
There is a massive difference between church discipline to protect the people and the Lord sending you to hell as can be seen by the letter Paul said to the 1 Corinthians.
Paul told those minister that were in authority in the local church to deal with those that continue to sin to keep the leaven out of the local church.
This is not for every Tom, Dick and Jane on the internet to slander others in the body of Christ as some think it is because they dis-agree in some area of doctrine.
Paul told the Corinthians who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach.
( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man is Christ really is. )
Paul told them who they were in Christ...Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.
1) The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,
2) The Corinthians were now saints by calling
3) The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,
4) The Corinthians had the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,
5) The Corinthians had that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ
6) The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ ( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness )
7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption
1 Corinthians 1:2-9 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only think that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12. The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32
Paul told those minister that were in authority in the local church to deal with those that continue to sin to keep the leaven out of the local church.
This is not for every Tom, Dick and Jane on the internet to slander others in the body of Christ as some think it is because they dis-agree in some area of doctrine.
Paul told the Corinthians who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach.
( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man is Christ really is. )
Paul told them who they were in Christ...Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.
1) The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,
2) The Corinthians were now saints by calling
3) The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,
4) The Corinthians had the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,
5) The Corinthians had that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ
6) The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ ( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness )
7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption
1 Corinthians 1:2-9 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only think that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12. The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32
Here is the kind of stuff Paul was dealing with and He also called the Corinthians that they were his credentials in the ministry.
I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians.
Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.
Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.
1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos,"are you not mere men?
I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".
- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning. Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.
Some people and denominations have their loving Father throwing them into hell and the lake of fire because of them being babes in Christ. Religion is just so stupid when you set back and look at it and they say so many things that are contrary to the nature of our Father and Lord.
I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians.
Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.
Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.
1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos,"are you not mere men?
I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".
- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning. Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.
Some people and denominations have their loving Father throwing them into hell and the lake of fire because of them being babes in Christ. Religion is just so stupid when you set back and look at it and they say so many things that are contrary to the nature of our Father and Lord.
As to John talking to gnostics in 1 John - do a search and you will find over 25 websites that say John was addressing gnostics in his letter. But again you are free to believe what you want......
I understand your opinion here as I was taught that too in my Pentecostal church ( I'm sure other denominations hold this view too ) but I don't see that in the new creation that is in Christ which is why I could never replace Christ and what He has done for anything else - no matter how pious it seems to be.
I see us cleansed by the blood of Jesus just like 1 John 1:7 says because we walk in the light. Believers do not go in an out of the light nor does Christ go in and out of us when we give in to the flesh and sin by the deeds of the body whether with our tongue or otherwise.
You are free in Christ to believe how you like. Walk on with your Lord as you see fit within you...
..I understand your opinion here as I was taught that too in my Pentecostal church ( I'm sure other denominations hold this view too ) but I don't see that in the new creation that is in Christ which is why I could never replace Christ and what He has done for anything else - no matter how pious it seems to be.
I see us cleansed by the blood of Jesus just like 1 John 1:7 says because we walk in the light. Believers do not go in an out of the light nor does Christ go in and out of us when we give in to the flesh and sin by the deeds of the body whether with our tongue or otherwise.
You are free in Christ to believe how you like. Walk on with your Lord as you see fit within you...
Evening Megiddo my friend.
You seem to raise a point that to be honest focuses on alcohol but to be honest I think it can be taken further.
It seems to me the biggie is the booze.
I think for me the issue is not what Pastor says as such (as long what they preach is so far off the wall)
With regards to member number 1 they are responsible for the choice they make and so is the pastor.
If member number 1 develops and the pastor also develops a problem then to me the issue is not what a pastor teaches but is probably due to stuff in their life that they mask with alcohol, or shopping or gluttony and dare I add seeking affirmation through sexual immorality.
To me those who excuse whatever they do that controls them probably do so because they have issues underneath that need dealing with.
I am not disagreeing with what you have said just wanting to take it a bit deeper, as I always do.
Alas there are those who really struggle with stuff and mask it by whatever takes their mind of it and when challenged they get defensive. That is where we need love, compassion and wisdom.
Also at the end of the day if we come alongside someone with issues and meet up with them let's ensure that whilst with them not to do anything that we consider ok.
So going back to alcohol, if we know someone has a problem with this then when we come alongside and walk with them then clear the fridge.
You seem to raise a point that to be honest focuses on alcohol but to be honest I think it can be taken further.
It seems to me the biggie is the booze.
I think for me the issue is not what Pastor says as such (as long what they preach is so far off the wall)
With regards to member number 1 they are responsible for the choice they make and so is the pastor.
If member number 1 develops and the pastor also develops a problem then to me the issue is not what a pastor teaches but is probably due to stuff in their life that they mask with alcohol, or shopping or gluttony and dare I add seeking affirmation through sexual immorality.
To me those who excuse whatever they do that controls them probably do so because they have issues underneath that need dealing with.
I am not disagreeing with what you have said just wanting to take it a bit deeper, as I always do.
Alas there are those who really struggle with stuff and mask it by whatever takes their mind of it and when challenged they get defensive. That is where we need love, compassion and wisdom.
Also at the end of the day if we come alongside someone with issues and meet up with them let's ensure that whilst with them not to do anything that we consider ok.
So going back to alcohol, if we know someone has a problem with this then when we come alongside and walk with them then clear the fridge.
U
Sometimes I take the opposite view just to see how it works, if sin confession is necessary then we are not forgiven/cleansed/sanctified for sins we don’t confess?
Our view is temporal but God's is eternal and all our individual sins were forgive 2000 years ago, sins we do not know we are going to do and sins we are unaware of along with what we are convicted of, already forgiven, it gives one pause to remember this.
Our view is temporal but God's is eternal and all our individual sins were forgive 2000 years ago, sins we do not know we are going to do and sins we are unaware of along with what we are convicted of, already forgiven, it gives one pause to remember this.
As to John talking to gnostics in 1 John - do a search and you will find over 25 websites that say John was addressing gnostics in his letter. But again you are free to believe what you want......
I understand your opinion here as I was taught that too in my Pentecostal church ( I'm sure other denominations hold this view too ) but I don't see that in the new creation that is in Christ which is why I could never replace Christ and what He has done for anything else - no matter how pious it seems to be.
I see us cleansed by the blood of Jesus just like 1 John 1:7 says because we walk in the light. Believers do not go in an out of the light nor does Christ go in and out of us when we give in to the flesh and sin by the deeds of the body whether with our tongue or otherwise.
You are free in Christ to believe how you like. Walk on with your Lord as you see fit within you...
..I understand your opinion here as I was taught that too in my Pentecostal church ( I'm sure other denominations hold this view too ) but I don't see that in the new creation that is in Christ which is why I could never replace Christ and what He has done for anything else - no matter how pious it seems to be.
I see us cleansed by the blood of Jesus just like 1 John 1:7 says because we walk in the light. Believers do not go in an out of the light nor does Christ go in and out of us when we give in to the flesh and sin by the deeds of the body whether with our tongue or otherwise.
You are free in Christ to believe how you like. Walk on with your Lord as you see fit within you...
Yes...the natural religious mind of man and the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ are in constant conflict. The natural mind of man cannot see the things of Christ and always stumbles at the Stone - Christ Himself.
But the Lord is changing all of that for those that have eyes to see and ears to hear. God grant us repentance to see Christ Himself and all that He has already done. He is our life, our righteousness, our wisdom, our sanctification and our redemption.
But the Lord is changing all of that for those that have eyes to see and ears to hear. God grant us repentance to see Christ Himself and all that He has already done. He is our life, our righteousness, our wisdom, our sanctification and our redemption.
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