Not By Works
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Fran I am not saying you are a legalist. You say works don't save but say works keep us saved after placing faith in Jesus.
I was just trying to get a handle between the two in your mind.
I myself am not ashamed to say that Jesus has asked us to obey him.
To be honest and it may be semantics but I can't recall Jesus saying we must love him. Correct me if I am wrong.
Jesus said "If you love me you will keep my commands"
If you can post quotes concerning that Jesus did it all and therefore we don't have to do anything anymore, to back up your quote please do so.
To be honest I can't see people saying this.
Greasy Grace is dangerous and needs to be corrected.
Quote greasy gracers and why you think so.
Just on a side note, I have been called greasy grace a man of easy believism. Would you agree with that
I was just trying to get a handle between the two in your mind.
I myself am not ashamed to say that Jesus has asked us to obey him.
To be honest and it may be semantics but I can't recall Jesus saying we must love him. Correct me if I am wrong.
Jesus said "If you love me you will keep my commands"
If you can post quotes concerning that Jesus did it all and therefore we don't have to do anything anymore, to back up your quote please do so.
To be honest I can't see people saying this.
Greasy Grace is dangerous and needs to be corrected.
Quote greasy gracers and why you think so.
Just on a side note, I have been called greasy grace a man of easy believism. Would you agree with that
Hi Fran,
Thank you for your comment.
I am simply sharing a post just like anyone else.
Some will listen and some won't.
However, no I do not have a PhD, but I do think I'm in good company because Jesus, Peter, Luke, John, Mark, and Paul didn't have a PhD either.
But - My focus on saying we teach "theology" by our love is simple though.
Theology is the study of God not the study of Scripture.
We study Scripture to know God.
And how do we know God?
1 John 4:8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
Therefore, "We teach theology by our love."
And yes I do believe in good works. Good works of love.
Thank you for your comment.
I am simply sharing a post just like anyone else.
Some will listen and some won't.
However, no I do not have a PhD, but I do think I'm in good company because Jesus, Peter, Luke, John, Mark, and Paul didn't have a PhD either.
But - My focus on saying we teach "theology" by our love is simple though.
Theology is the study of God not the study of Scripture.
We study Scripture to know God.
And how do we know God?
1 John 4:8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
Therefore, "We teach theology by our love."
And yes I do believe in good works. Good works of love.
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Hi Fran,
Thank you for your comment.
I am simply sharing a post just like anyone else.
Some will listen and some won't.
However, no I do not have a PhD, but I do think I'm in good company because Jesus, Peter, Luke, John, Mark, and Paul didn't have a PhD either.
But - My focus on saying we teach "theology" by our love is simple though.
Theology is the study of God not the study of Scripture.
We study Scripture to know God.
And how do we know God?
1 John 4:8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
Therefore, "We teach theology by our love."
And yes I do believe in good works. Good works of love.
Thank you for your comment.
I am simply sharing a post just like anyone else.
Some will listen and some won't.
However, no I do not have a PhD, but I do think I'm in good company because Jesus, Peter, Luke, John, Mark, and Paul didn't have a PhD either.
But - My focus on saying we teach "theology" by our love is simple though.
Theology is the study of God not the study of Scripture.
We study Scripture to know God.
And how do we know God?
1 John 4:8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
Therefore, "We teach theology by our love."
And yes I do believe in good works. Good works of love.
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Jesus is the Living Word.
I've always believed in eternal security while on this forum. But, I think it is obvious while I do believe people are saved, I don't believe all people are discipled by Love. And I will also as I feel lead will confront people who I feel are walking in error. Especially if I have relationship with them. I don't believe that teaching a person can lose their salvation makes them anymore loving. I see plenty of people who believe you can lose their salvation, but are not kind at all. Even though countless Scriptures tell us to be loving and kind and gentle to one another. So if preaching you can lose your salvation produces that type of fruit, why isn't it working in those who preach it?
Yes Jesus is the Word, but traditions calls Scripture the Word, yet Scripture calls itself Scripture.
You can see this here:
Strong's Greek: 1124. γραφή (graphé) -- a writing, scripture
Jesus is the (Logos) Word of God. He's not the Bible.
http://biblehub.com/greek/3056.htm
Logos, rhema, and graphe are all different Greek words that mean different things. In the Scripture you reference that Greek word is rhema.
You can see all the instances of rhema here:
Strong's Greek: 4487. ῥῆμα (rhéma) -- a word, by impl. a matter
Rhema is Spoken Word.
If Jesus was the Scriptures then why did He tell the Pharisees they search in vain through Scriptures, but the Scriptures testify (or point to) Him.
John 5:39 (NLT) "You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!
He is the LIVING God. Scripture teaches us about Him, but we have relationship with Holy Spirit.
And it is Holy Spirit who wrote the Scriptures. He brings life to them. He is our Teacher.
He declares what Jesus declares.
John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
You can see this here:
Strong's Greek: 1124. γραφή (graphé) -- a writing, scripture
Jesus is the (Logos) Word of God. He's not the Bible.
http://biblehub.com/greek/3056.htm
Logos, rhema, and graphe are all different Greek words that mean different things. In the Scripture you reference that Greek word is rhema.
You can see all the instances of rhema here:
Strong's Greek: 4487. ῥῆμα (rhéma) -- a word, by impl. a matter
Rhema is Spoken Word.
If Jesus was the Scriptures then why did He tell the Pharisees they search in vain through Scriptures, but the Scriptures testify (or point to) Him.
John 5:39 (NLT) "You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!
He is the LIVING God. Scripture teaches us about Him, but we have relationship with Holy Spirit.
And it is Holy Spirit who wrote the Scriptures. He brings life to them. He is our Teacher.
He declares what Jesus declares.
John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
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I LOVE THAT QUOTE!!
I completely and totally agree. It's so cool you know his works.
Did you know history says he would talk to animals? He believed in truly preaching the gospel to ALL creation. He was an incredible man who loved people even to his own detriment many times. I don't agree with everything he taught, but I don't agree with everyone about anything lol. Yet, I loved his teachings on showing the love of God. And like I said I believe this is true religion/true theology.
I completely and totally agree. It's so cool you know his works.
Did you know history says he would talk to animals? He believed in truly preaching the gospel to ALL creation. He was an incredible man who loved people even to his own detriment many times. I don't agree with everything he taught, but I don't agree with everyone about anything lol. Yet, I loved his teachings on showing the love of God. And like I said I believe this is true religion/true theology.
I think it would be more malicious for me to completely ignore how un Christlike you're acting, while teaching the need for good works out of the other side of your mouth. We need to give each other feedback. I gave you my feedback, you telling people they have "no discernment" because of some "delusion". It's just so high and mighty. You betrayed yourself as seeing everyone with no discernment and being deluded unlike you. So much pride.
I just hope that you at least consider what I said. I've gently reminded you several times through our personal history together what good works actually are which you've ignored completely. So, I was extremely direct, but instead of seeing how it wasn't something I wanted to do. You once again shift blame and take no personal responsibility for how you treat people. You slander me and say things like I must not be holy because I told you how unChristlike you are being. More hypocritical actions that I pray you see.
I'm definitely the same guy, but like you I believe we need hold each other to have good works and when I see a false teacher (someone teaches what they don't live in) I'm actually quite direct about it. Especially if I feel like its for their good. One thing I've considered is maybe I should have told you that in private, but I think it needed to be done publicly just like Paul did to Peter.
Don't worry you ignored my feedback, I probably won't give you anymore.
I'm not even angry at you or anything, but I will leave you to Holy Spirit at this point.
I just hope that you at least consider what I said. I've gently reminded you several times through our personal history together what good works actually are which you've ignored completely. So, I was extremely direct, but instead of seeing how it wasn't something I wanted to do. You once again shift blame and take no personal responsibility for how you treat people. You slander me and say things like I must not be holy because I told you how unChristlike you are being. More hypocritical actions that I pray you see.
I'm definitely the same guy, but like you I believe we need hold each other to have good works and when I see a false teacher (someone teaches what they don't live in) I'm actually quite direct about it. Especially if I feel like its for their good. One thing I've considered is maybe I should have told you that in private, but I think it needed to be done publicly just like Paul did to Peter.
Don't worry you ignored my feedback, I probably won't give you anymore.
I'm not even angry at you or anything, but I will leave you to Holy Spirit at this point.
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I LOVE THAT QUOTE!!
I completely and totally agree. It's so cool you know his works.
Did you know history says he would talk to animals? He believed in truly preaching the gospel to ALL creation. He was an incredible man who loved people even to his own detriment many times. I don't agree with everything he taught, but I don't agree with everyone about anything lol. Yet, I loved his teachings on showing the love of God. And like I said I believe this is true religion/true theology.
I completely and totally agree. It's so cool you know his works.
Did you know history says he would talk to animals? He believed in truly preaching the gospel to ALL creation. He was an incredible man who loved people even to his own detriment many times. I don't agree with everything he taught, but I don't agree with everyone about anything lol. Yet, I loved his teachings on showing the love of God. And like I said I believe this is true religion/true theology.
I very much like when he was praying and God would tell him...
BUILD MY CHURCH.
And he thought God meant the little run-down church just outside Assisi.
When finally, one day, he realized God wanted St. Francis to Build HIS Church!
And indeed he did. He brought spirituality back into the church and affected it greatly.
In fact, today we have the Franciscan Bros.
P.S.
The little church is San Damiano.
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Hi PennEd, this is a repost - not sure if you agree with this statement or not but thought I would post it again.
"By grace you are saved:" "Present Tenths;" Christian's remain in a state of "saved" until Christ's return. We are not saved one day and lose our salvation the next day; should we seek God's forgiveness and confess our sin's daily - yes of course. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1John1:9
For by grace, the free favour of God, as Ephesians 2:5, are ye, even ye Ephesians, Gentiles, who had not such promises made to you as the Jews had, Ephesians 2:12,
saved, from first to last, from your calling, Ephesians 2:5, to your glorification, Ephesians 2:6.
Objection. How are believers said to be saved, when they are not yet glorified?
Answer.
1. Because Christ their Head is glorified.
2. Because their salvation, begun in their effectual calling, shall be as certainly accomplished in them as it is begun in them, and perfected in their Head, Christ.
Through faith; by which ye lay hold on the grace offered you in the gospel. Faith is not considered here as a work done by us, but as an instrument or means applying the grace and salvation tendered to us.
And that not of yourselves; not for your own worth, nor by your own strength.
It is the gift of God; that ye are saved is the gift of God, and therefore free and purely by grace.
God is opposed to self: gift relates not merely to faith immediately preceding, but to the whole sentence.
Attribute: Ephesians 2:8 Commentaries: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
"By grace you are saved:" "Present Tenths;" Christian's remain in a state of "saved" until Christ's return. We are not saved one day and lose our salvation the next day; should we seek God's forgiveness and confess our sin's daily - yes of course. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1John1:9
For by grace, the free favour of God, as Ephesians 2:5, are ye, even ye Ephesians, Gentiles, who had not such promises made to you as the Jews had, Ephesians 2:12,
saved, from first to last, from your calling, Ephesians 2:5, to your glorification, Ephesians 2:6.
Objection. How are believers said to be saved, when they are not yet glorified?
Answer.
1. Because Christ their Head is glorified.
2. Because their salvation, begun in their effectual calling, shall be as certainly accomplished in them as it is begun in them, and perfected in their Head, Christ.
Through faith; by which ye lay hold on the grace offered you in the gospel. Faith is not considered here as a work done by us, but as an instrument or means applying the grace and salvation tendered to us.
And that not of yourselves; not for your own worth, nor by your own strength.
It is the gift of God; that ye are saved is the gift of God, and therefore free and purely by grace.
God is opposed to self: gift relates not merely to faith immediately preceding, but to the whole sentence.
Attribute: Ephesians 2:8 Commentaries: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
I comprehend your opposing argument quite well, however, I completely do not accept your opposing argument.
But I will say this, you are tenacious and you are very reasonable in your responses, in that you do not make it personal.
My concern, is that I absolutely know that it is vital in the Christian walk to believe what God says is true, and we can only get to the meat if we believe in the milk. The milk is understanding salvation and the nature of it.
We see very clearly that Jesus is drawing an analogy, a certain specific analogy for a specific reason.
The analogy is flesh and spirit and being born.
The flesh is born of the water, once, cannot be unborn or born again
The spirit is born of the Spirit (generate from above), once, cannot be unborn or born again
Nicodemus said to him, “How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?” [SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.[SUP][c]
[/SUP]It might also help to understand that in 1 John5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: γεγέννηται means to "generate one from above."
The word is in the perfect tense, which means that “[it] expresses the continuance of completed action.
The child of God is one who is generated out from the God remains generated out from the God; further, the
child of God is one who (because of his birth out from the God) is continuously believing
(Case for Koine - Timothy Carter)
Indoctrination is a good thing when it is truth.
But I will say this, you are tenacious and you are very reasonable in your responses, in that you do not make it personal.
My concern, is that I absolutely know that it is vital in the Christian walk to believe what God says is true, and we can only get to the meat if we believe in the milk. The milk is understanding salvation and the nature of it.
We see very clearly that Jesus is drawing an analogy, a certain specific analogy for a specific reason.
The analogy is flesh and spirit and being born.
The flesh is born of the water, once, cannot be unborn or born again
The spirit is born of the Spirit (generate from above), once, cannot be unborn or born again
Nicodemus said to him, “How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?” [SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.[SUP][c]
[/SUP]It might also help to understand that in 1 John5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: γεγέννηται means to "generate one from above."
The word is in the perfect tense, which means that “[it] expresses the continuance of completed action.
The child of God is one who is generated out from the God remains generated out from the God; further, the
child of God is one who (because of his birth out from the God) is continuously believing
(Case for Koine - Timothy Carter)
Indoctrination is a good thing when it is truth.
Often times the people who preach faith alone get accused of teaching easy believism. Well, I do think believing is easy, but what people mean by that term is that there is no life change whatsoever, that the person merely professes to believe in Christ and lives like He did before He got saved.
This in my opinion is a false accusation atleast in my case, while I say believing is easy, (just as easy as opening a door or taking a glass of water) I also believe that once the Holy Spirit of God enters into you, things will change. This is called sanctification. You can make a mess out of the Gospel by mixing JUSTIFICATION and SANCTIFICATION.
And one more thing; I could just as easily say that those who think they must do good deeds to "stay saved" have a low view of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
PS: My friend dcontroversal has an INSANE amount of reputation, 200, really?!
This in my opinion is a false accusation atleast in my case, while I say believing is easy, (just as easy as opening a door or taking a glass of water) I also believe that once the Holy Spirit of God enters into you, things will change. This is called sanctification. You can make a mess out of the Gospel by mixing JUSTIFICATION and SANCTIFICATION.
And one more thing; I could just as easily say that those who think they must do good deeds to "stay saved" have a low view of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
PS: My friend dcontroversal has an INSANE amount of reputation, 200, really?!