Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
You and Fran can do your best to obey God all day ever day, You will still not be worthy of eternal life.
Nor will you maintain your salvation by any of those works..
That is what I see that seperates us,
I work because I am saved, because I have been empowered By God to do so. and because of it, I will never live as before. because I have been made a new creature.
I know Fran works to maintain her salvation, unless she has changed her view in the past two weeks. and it appears you do to.
Nor will you maintain your salvation by any of those works..
That is what I see that seperates us,
I work because I am saved, because I have been empowered By God to do so. and because of it, I will never live as before. because I have been made a new creature.
I know Fran works to maintain her salvation, unless she has changed her view in the past two weeks. and it appears you do to.
You said eternal life is a reward given to those of Faith evident by their work.. you even wrote a list of to do in order to recieve ..
I have shared that Faith without work is dead and such things according to scripture...
You sought to tell me what I believed and say I work for my eternal life.... and such...
My work will be deemed worthy or not because it is evidence of my Faith... you assumed I thought my works would save me... rather than see that I believed the Messiah who said reward and works.. which He will decide.
Exalting myself to say I'm Good I deserve this or I'm worthy by my works was never in my intent.. no.. I was accused and then many jump on... I believe what is written.
I have shared that Faith without work is dead and such things according to scripture...
You sought to tell me what I believed and say I work for my eternal life.... and such...
My work will be deemed worthy or not because it is evidence of my Faith... you assumed I thought my works would save me... rather than see that I believed the Messiah who said reward and works.. which He will decide.
Exalting myself to say I'm Good I deserve this or I'm worthy by my works was never in my intent.. no.. I was accused and then many jump on... I believe what is written.
What it all boils down to is this - IMO :
Some people/denominations because of their church teachings believe that our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they are baby Christians and haven't walked by the spirit in order to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.
This is thought despite the work of Christ in obtaining eternal redemption for us by His blood. Heb. 9:12
Some extreme groups believe that if you don't follow the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament - you are sinning and dis-obeying God and of course the outcome again is - our loving Father throwing us into the lake of fire.
Some extreme in another group say that if we don't do good works ( whatever their definition of good works is along with how many are needed in order to remain saved..etc ) - we need to do these good works "in order to keep saved". Which of course is an anti-Christ and anti-the gospel belief system and mindset.
They read every warning scripture as God sending these ones to hell now because they don't experience the life of Christ fully in this earth.
We are learning how to live by the life of Another which is Christ in us. We have this treasure in an earthen vessel and this is why we need our minds renewed to the truths of Christ's finished work so that we can walk in our inheritance which is ours in Christ.
Others believe that we are saved by grace through faith when we heard the message of Christ just like Paul said. That He who started a "good work" in us will finished it and present us spotless and blameless in His sight because of His work alone on the cross and resurrection.
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Only "security" will provide the proper nutrients for "maturity" for us to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Some people/denominations because of their church teachings believe that our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell and the lake of fire because they are baby Christians and haven't walked by the spirit in order to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.
This is thought despite the work of Christ in obtaining eternal redemption for us by His blood. Heb. 9:12
Some extreme groups believe that if you don't follow the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament - you are sinning and dis-obeying God and of course the outcome again is - our loving Father throwing us into the lake of fire.
Some extreme in another group say that if we don't do good works ( whatever their definition of good works is along with how many are needed in order to remain saved..etc ) - we need to do these good works "in order to keep saved". Which of course is an anti-Christ and anti-the gospel belief system and mindset.
They read every warning scripture as God sending these ones to hell now because they don't experience the life of Christ fully in this earth.
We are learning how to live by the life of Another which is Christ in us. We have this treasure in an earthen vessel and this is why we need our minds renewed to the truths of Christ's finished work so that we can walk in our inheritance which is ours in Christ.
Others believe that we are saved by grace through faith when we heard the message of Christ just like Paul said. That He who started a "good work" in us will finished it and present us spotless and blameless in His sight because of His work alone on the cross and resurrection.
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Only "security" will provide the proper nutrients for "maturity" for us to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
E
No I did not say they had to do those things in order to receive them, I said that was our reward for doing them. Forward thinking of what we have in Christ is what gets us to do good works, Not legalism,
And I have agreed, Living faith works, it is not dead. No one who is a hearer only and not a doer has faith, or has ever been saved.
You said that yourself. did you not? You have been asked that by many people. if you did not believe that ,why dod you not tell them no you do not work for that.
Yu said eternal life (salvation) is earned by works, those are your words not mine..
Yes God will reward works, by gold silver precious stones, wood hay and straw, And he also said he would give us crowns.
But never did he say we would earn salvation or eternal life. We can not earn life, we have earned, are earning and will always until we are glorified) earn death.
then answer question, do you believe we must work to maintain salvation and earn eternal life or not?
Yes or no.. an answer would solve all the so called accusations you say are thrown at you.
How does one change their view when they know the truth??
I will never change my view.
So here's what you've said...
You are saved because you DONT do works.
I am not saved because I DO works.
You are a new creature because you don't do works.
I am not a new creature because I DO works.
Huh???
I do think you're very confused.
I will never change my view.
So here's what you've said...
You are saved because you DONT do works.
I am not saved because I DO works.
You are a new creature because you don't do works.
I am not a new creature because I DO works.
Huh???
I do think you're very confused.
Why would loveme1 find it necessary to answer your question just to stop unwarranted accusations from
Persons who claim to be Christian?
Is that an ultimatum??
How about YOU answer this question,. Which I asked 500 pages ago.
Do you believe it's necessary AFTER SALVATION to obey God and do good works?
Yes or No.
Persons who claim to be Christian?
Is that an ultimatum??
How about YOU answer this question,. Which I asked 500 pages ago.
Do you believe it's necessary AFTER SALVATION to obey God and do good works?
Yes or No.
I used to believe the same thing, NNM, until I found out many of these "personal arguments" were all about the same thing in a nutshell.
Have you ever notice most arguing on the same side are people of different belief systems?
They will argue together for their singular "cause", but never over their doctrines that are widely different.
Strange, isn't it?
Have you ever notice most arguing on the same side are people of different belief systems?
They will argue together for their singular "cause", but never over their doctrines that are widely different.
Strange, isn't it?
Oh.
And regarding your first sentence..
You said that neither loveme1 or myself will be worthy of eternal life for obeying God all day every day.
So, we're going to hell for obeying God??
Huh???
See. You really are totally confused.
It's the other way around...
One goes to the hot place if they Don't obey God.
Doesn't this make more sense to you?
I hope so.
And regarding your first sentence..
You said that neither loveme1 or myself will be worthy of eternal life for obeying God all day every day.
So, we're going to hell for obeying God??
Huh???
See. You really are totally confused.
It's the other way around...
One goes to the hot place if they Don't obey God.
Doesn't this make more sense to you?
I hope so.
N
beliefs aside
im speaking of the false accusations
dirt flinging
spiteful words
disgusting cowardly passive aggression
self image bleeding through every word...
a DESIRE to argue
with zero intention do act as God intends his children to act
no desire to help a brother a sister a neighbor or an enemy
only desire to be correct
to be the winner
to esteem themself
its not of God
the other stuff i see
is discussions... which are fine
and semantics
... like when someone THOUGHT i was calvinist because i said i was called and took it back
or when someone THOUGHT i was charasmatic and took it back and said sorry even...
i see that too
im speaking of the false accusations
dirt flinging
spiteful words
disgusting cowardly passive aggression
self image bleeding through every word...
a DESIRE to argue
with zero intention do act as God intends his children to act
no desire to help a brother a sister a neighbor or an enemy
only desire to be correct
to be the winner
to esteem themself
its not of God
the other stuff i see
is discussions... which are fine
and semantics
... like when someone THOUGHT i was calvinist because i said i was called and took it back
or when someone THOUGHT i was charasmatic and took it back and said sorry even...
i see that too
I love my GOD and our Lord and Saviour because they loved me first.. Righteous, Merciful, Gracious, Everlasting, long suffering, kind, Just, Faithful and Amazing.. i can not declare how great they are enough.. it is a blessing to of been given life to learn these wonderful things.. If the King deems me worthy then I will sing praises for eternity.
Lemme add this for balance, Mcgee..... There's some on the "other side" that likes to keep the argument going, too.
Those will say works straightway without explanation, making "our" whole position look like that.
It makes it easy for the first side to cry at us, "you say it's all about works".
I'd say that's quite peculiar, wouldn't you?
Those will say works straightway without explanation, making "our" whole position look like that.
It makes it easy for the first side to cry at us, "you say it's all about works".
I'd say that's quite peculiar, wouldn't you?
E
Wake up?
lol. I woke up years ago.
I shared what the king said, Unless you think the words of John and others that I shared are not true.
again, I leave you with the words of John.
How do we overcome? By works? No by faith
1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
by the way, You have not refuted one thing I have said, all you continue to do is say I am not listening to Jesus. even though I have showed multiple times now I listen to jesus every word.
That is not a way to have a polite discussion or even a disagreement, If you disagree with me, show me where I am wrong,
lol. I woke up years ago.
I shared what the king said, Unless you think the words of John and others that I shared are not true.
again, I leave you with the words of John.
How do we overcome? By works? No by faith
1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
by the way, You have not refuted one thing I have said, all you continue to do is say I am not listening to Jesus. even though I have showed multiple times now I listen to jesus every word.
That is not a way to have a polite discussion or even a disagreement, If you disagree with me, show me where I am wrong,