so the bible that da disciples believed and quoted from also had obvious errors? wow.
is there any bible that u trust? if KJVonlyism is idolatry, so is this original manuscript garbage as well, we dont have original manuscripts.
New world order Bible Versions (NIV ESV NKJV etc)
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so the bible that da disciples believed and quoted from also had obvious errors? wow.
is there any bible that u trust? if KJVonlyism is idolatry, so is this original manuscript garbage as well, we dont have original manuscripts.
Now, this is really funny.
You just demonstrated that you actually have a real problem with understanding the text of the KJV.
Verse 7 is not about preserving His words, but about preserving the people the Psalm is about.
This shows how the difficult language of the KJV leads to various kinds of errors and strange teachings.
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Wow or not wow, just check it out. Either Methuselah survived the flood or there is an error in his age in the Septuagint.
And this is just one example from the top of my head.
I trust several Bibles on various levels.
The OT as such is not preserved in any perfect state, many places are uncertain.
The NT is preserved much better, but even there are some words or verses that are uncertain.
That does not mean that something needed for Christianity is missing or uncertain. Sorry, the age of Methuselah really does not change anything in my relationship to God etc. So what is needed, is preserved.
Also, please realize that our trust is not in any book, but in God. If you lived in some kind of isolated island (like England in 16th century
) without any knowledge about the Bible, you can still be a perfect Christian, better than many who have all Bible memorized. Its about heart, sinless, purity, peace, love etc.
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Yes. I have no need of going with anything else.
You do not understand that the verse is not about Bible, but about people/nation. Thats all.
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"12 Help, Lord; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.2 They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.
3 The Lord shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:
4 Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?
5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the Lord; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted." Psalm 12 KJV
Because of the lack of paragraphs and quotation marks, it is difficult to understand this Psalm in KJV. But, after having read several very reliable modern translations, I can see the essence is there in this language I barely understand. (I used green here to identify the fact that is Bible verses! Normally I use red for English, but reading it, I realize it is not the English I speak, at all! Hence, a different colour!)
And what is the essence of verses 6-7? That the words in the previous verse, against evil people who oppress the Lord are true! And that oppression of the poor is a serious matter, even down to our day!
"1 Deliver, Lord!
For the godly have disappeared;
people of integrity have vanished.
2 People lie to one another;
they flatter and deceive.
3 May the Lord cut off all flattering lips,
and the tongue that boasts!
4 They say, “We speak persuasively;
we know how to flatter and boast.
Who is our master?”
5 “Because of the violence done to the oppressed,
because of the painful cries of the needy,
I will spring into action,” says the Lord.
“I will provide the safety they so desperately desire.”
6 The Lord’s words are absolutely reliable.
They are as untainted as silver purified in a furnace on the ground,
where it is thoroughly refined.
7 You, Lord, will protect them;
you will continually shelter each one from these evil people,
8 for the wicked seem to be everywhere,
when people promote evil. Psalm 12 NET (no idea where the verse numbers are! They were there before I copied and pasted it!)
Psalm 12English Standard Version (ESV)
The Faithful Have Vanished
To the choirmaster: according to The Sheminith.[a] A Psalm of David.
12 Save, O Lord, for the godly one is gone;
for the faithful have vanished from among the children of man.
2 Everyone utters lies to his neighbor;
with flattering lips and a double heart they speak.
3 May the Lord cut off all flattering lips,
the tongue that makes great boasts,
4 those who say, “With our tongue we will prevail,
our lips are with us; who is master over us?”
5 “Because the poor are plundered, because the needy groan,
I will now arise,” says the Lord;
“I will place him in the safety for which he longs.”
6 The words of the Lord are pure words,
like silver refined in a furnace on the ground,
purified seven times.
7 You, O Lord, will keep them;
you will guard us from this generation forever.
8 On every side the wicked prowl,
as vileness is exalted among the children of man."
Notice how ESV even groups verse 5 and 6 together. This is context! Pulling verse 6 and 7 out and saying they are about the KJV, which was written, 2000-2500 years later is the MOST ludicrous piece of garbage I have ever heard! Not even eisegetics, but cult propaganda!
So John146, have you ever read this verse in context? Or is it just that you, too are clueless about Shakespearean English, and it is too difficult to understand this in the KJV? I'm beginning to suspect the latter!
3 The Lord shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:
4 Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?
5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the Lord; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted." Psalm 12 KJV
Because of the lack of paragraphs and quotation marks, it is difficult to understand this Psalm in KJV. But, after having read several very reliable modern translations, I can see the essence is there in this language I barely understand. (I used green here to identify the fact that is Bible verses! Normally I use red for English, but reading it, I realize it is not the English I speak, at all! Hence, a different colour!)
And what is the essence of verses 6-7? That the words in the previous verse, against evil people who oppress the Lord are true! And that oppression of the poor is a serious matter, even down to our day!
"1 Deliver, Lord!
For the godly have disappeared;
people of integrity have vanished.
2 People lie to one another;
they flatter and deceive.
3 May the Lord cut off all flattering lips,
and the tongue that boasts!
4 They say, “We speak persuasively;
we know how to flatter and boast.
Who is our master?”
5 “Because of the violence done to the oppressed,
because of the painful cries of the needy,
I will spring into action,” says the Lord.
“I will provide the safety they so desperately desire.”
6 The Lord’s words are absolutely reliable.
They are as untainted as silver purified in a furnace on the ground,
where it is thoroughly refined.
7 You, Lord, will protect them;
you will continually shelter each one from these evil people,
8 for the wicked seem to be everywhere,
when people promote evil. Psalm 12 NET (no idea where the verse numbers are! They were there before I copied and pasted it!)
Psalm 12English Standard Version (ESV)
The Faithful Have Vanished
To the choirmaster: according to The Sheminith.[a] A Psalm of David.
12 Save, O Lord, for the godly one is gone;
for the faithful have vanished from among the children of man.
2 Everyone utters lies to his neighbor;
with flattering lips and a double heart they speak.
3 May the Lord cut off all flattering lips,
the tongue that makes great boasts,
4 those who say, “With our tongue we will prevail,
our lips are with us; who is master over us?”
5 “Because the poor are plundered, because the needy groan,
I will now arise,” says the Lord;
“I will place him in the safety for which he longs.”
6 The words of the Lord are pure words,
like silver refined in a furnace on the ground,
purified seven times.
7 You, O Lord, will keep them;
you will guard us from this generation forever.
8 On every side the wicked prowl,
as vileness is exalted among the children of man."
Notice how ESV even groups verse 5 and 6 together. This is context! Pulling verse 6 and 7 out and saying they are about the KJV, which was written, 2000-2500 years later is the MOST ludicrous piece of garbage I have ever heard! Not even eisegetics, but cult propaganda!
So John146, have you ever read this verse in context? Or is it just that you, too are clueless about Shakespearean English, and it is too difficult to understand this in the KJV? I'm beginning to suspect the latter!
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I like the Septuagint reading:
"You, Lord, will keep us, and will preserve us, from this generation, and for ever."
σύ, Κύριε, φυλάξαις ἡμᾶς καὶ διατηρήσαις ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης καὶ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα.
Did someone mention the KJV preserving the Septuagint, and how it had been perfectly translated from Hebrew!? The Septuagint is different in so many places! But this makes a lot of sense. And the Greek is easy to understand!
We translated Psalm 42 from the Septuagint for our second last Greek class. It was incredibly difficult, not like 1st century Koine. To make it worse, I had it memorized in English, although it was interesting to see that Holman's used the Septuagint, as opposed to other versions which follow the much later Masoretic text. The prof is taking Psalm 42 out of the book's next edition. He said he figured no one must have ever got that far in translating, it was so difficult, or they would have complained to him or the publisher! LOL
Whole the preservation thing is quite out of their hands now... Somebody said that the LXX was perfectly preserved, which is not true either.
Well, I was not sure what tense to use in 12:7... Lord will keep us or Lord has been keeping us?
In a nationalistic sense or individual? This seems to be written to the people of Israel. So "was keeping us," imperfect? Perfect implies a finished action in the past, with implications for the present? And yes, it is the future tense, which apparently is always future, at least in the NT.
So, this does imply not being kept now, doesn't it! Interesting? Certainly not perfect, by any means!
Check that "crap" out
Nothing about it is mysterious or hidden. Use biblehub.com, use originals... just check it out. The verse is about people, not about KJV.
We're talking about the KJV rendition Trof not the modern versions... the modern versions do render it as God preserving the people but the KJV doesn't.Check that "crap" out
Nothing about it is mysterious or hidden. Use biblehub.com, use originals... just check it out. The verse is about people, not about KJV.
English is my native language and I've been reading the KJV in earnest for 10 years and those verses in KJV are not talking about preserving people.
Refuted, as it was an invalid question because you used a false dichotomy. I have no need to answer an invalid question. As to the question, "Is there a bible you trust?", my answer is yes, the one beside me, and the other one beside me, and the several in my phone, and the ones on my shelf, and the ones on my other shelf, etc. Do I trust them like you trust the KJV? No; I don't do blind trust.
Angela said:
(I used green here to identify the fact that is Bible verses! Normally I use red for English, but reading it, I realize it is not the English I speak, at all! Hence, a different colour!)
============================================
we hear you, sis, it is a different 'colour, but the same language!
(I used green here to identify the fact that is Bible verses! Normally I use red for English, but reading it, I realize it is not the English I speak, at all! Hence, a different colour!)
============================================
we hear you, sis, it is a different 'colour, but the same language!
Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psalm 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
This is quite misconception on the verses on this particular Psalms. It was alluded that it was against evil people oppressing the Lord. We need to check out those verses so that God’s word need not be obliterated. The Psalmist was speaking when a few good/ godly men were found in the land of Israel because many children were speaking vanity with his own neighbor using flattered words and every proud thing. In short, people were no longer speaking that is right according to the ‘words of the Lord’. These wicked people were against these godly men yet the Lord saith He will set him (godly men) safety from him that puffeth him.
In verse 6, the Psalmist gave the importance of the ‘words of the Lord’ as pure words against flattered words/proud words. The Psalmist speaks of these ‘words of the Lord’ purified seven times and they are being kept and preserve from that generation forever. Though the wicked walk on every side, the vilest men were exalted because of their flattered and proud words, the words of the Lord is the assurance to thwart enemies so that even today the Bible still stands as the banner and the standard and the sword of the Lord to those who would like to oppress God’s people.
The bottom-line, desecrate God’s word to destroy God’s people but to keep God’s word is to protect His people. Psalm 12:3 should be a warning to all: “The Lord shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things.”
God bless
Psalm 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
This is quite misconception on the verses on this particular Psalms. It was alluded that it was against evil people oppressing the Lord. We need to check out those verses so that God’s word need not be obliterated. The Psalmist was speaking when a few good/ godly men were found in the land of Israel because many children were speaking vanity with his own neighbor using flattered words and every proud thing. In short, people were no longer speaking that is right according to the ‘words of the Lord’. These wicked people were against these godly men yet the Lord saith He will set him (godly men) safety from him that puffeth him.
In verse 6, the Psalmist gave the importance of the ‘words of the Lord’ as pure words against flattered words/proud words. The Psalmist speaks of these ‘words of the Lord’ purified seven times and they are being kept and preserve from that generation forever. Though the wicked walk on every side, the vilest men were exalted because of their flattered and proud words, the words of the Lord is the assurance to thwart enemies so that even today the Bible still stands as the banner and the standard and the sword of the Lord to those who would like to oppress God’s people.
The bottom-line, desecrate God’s word to destroy God’s people but to keep God’s word is to protect His people. Psalm 12:3 should be a warning to all: “The Lord shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things.”
God bless
Septuagint is not a modern version and is about people too.
Even in the KJV its about people, "them" are people. The only thing that makes it hard to understand is that in English "them" can be both persons and things so you cannot tell which it is so you think its what was in the previous verse.
But when you read commentaries from Geneva Bible or from the KJV times (biblehub) you will see that it was understood as people. Sorry,you are in error here
fred,
you're out of line, the two of us, Angela and myself are on a different signal/line right now,
just allow us to go with our flow friend...
you're out of line, the two of us, Angela and myself are on a different signal/line right now,
just allow us to go with our flow friend...
Alright, the 'all' I am speaking of are those who are against His pure words. Anyway so sorry for that my friend. Go with thy flow...God bless
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Angela53510 again.
Bah!!!