Sabbath

Bogadile · Aug 23, 2017

You keep bringing that up. When did Jesus tell us to keep the Sabbath?

unobtrusive · Aug 23, 2017

Understanding Paul’s Difficult Scriptures
Concerning the Law and Commandments of God

Galatians 4:8-10 Correctly Explained
Interestingly, the question of Sabbath and holy day observance was not the real issue in Galatians Four. After their conversion, the Spirit of God led the Galatians to worshipping God in spirit and in truth—which included keeping the Sabbath and holy days. Paul wrote that they had become the children of God: “And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.” (Gal. 4:6-7).

Later, Paul reminds them of their pagan past and their former occult worship of demons. Notice the comparison: “Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. [the pagan deities and demons]” (verse 8). Their former pagan worship had nothing to do with the biblical Sabbath and holy days, or any other commandment or law of God!

In a severe admonition Paul warns them that they were in dire spiritual danger, because instead of obeying God, they were reverting back to their former pagan ways and blending their former pagan observances with their newly learned Christian way of life. In so doing, they were beginning to turn their backs on God the Father and Jesus Christ. Paul strongly rebukes them: “But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements,[demon spirits of pagan religion], whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [to Satan the devil as in the past]? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of (for) you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. (verses 9-11).

It is readily apparent that the problem was not that the Galatians were forsaking Sunday and holiday-keeping and reverting back to keeping the Sabbath and holy days, as Orthodox theologians and ministers claim. In fact, quite the opposite was happening, as we will see in the following analysis.

An Analysis of What Paul Wrote in Galatians 4:8-10
1) Paul speaks of the time before the Galatians were converted: “Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. [the pagan deities and demons]” (verse 8). Before they were converted they knew nothing about the true God—the Father and Jesus Christ. Therefore, we can conclude that before they were converted, they did not observe God’s Sabbath, feasts or holy days—only after their conversion.

2) Next, Paul speaks of their conversion and having come to know God: “…after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, …” (verse 9). After they were converted, Paul taught them God’s way of life in the grace of God, including the keeping of the Sabbath, feasts and holy days. Paul taught the observance of God’s Sabbaths in all the churches.

3) Later—because they were beginning to accept a false gospel—the Galatians began leaving the true Christ and the true Gospel, and were returning to their former pagan religious practices and demon worship: “how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, [demon spirits of pagan religion]…” (verse 9).

4) In so doing, they were returning to the spiritual bondage of false, pagan gods and the accompanying religious days of worship: “…whereunto YE DESIRE AGAIN TO BE IN BONDAGE [to Satan the devil as in the past]?” (verse 9).

5) Paul notes that rather than following the teachings of Jesus Christ, what they were doing was of their own choice and determination: “Ye observe….” Paul uses a special middle voice verb, paratereithe, which shows that they were acting of their own volition in making such decisions—and were not doing so because of Paul’s teachings.

6) What were they reverting to? They were going back to “Ye observe [for themselves] days, and months, and times and years” (verse 10). Again, before conversion they knew nothing of God, Jesus Christ or Christianity—or of the laws and commandments of God. Therefore it is not possible to take this phrase to mean that they were returning to the observance of God’s Sabbath, feasts and holy days—or that they were following traditional Judaism. The phrase can only refer to pagan days, months, times and years, which they had formerly observed before they were converted.

Notice carefully that Paul did not use the words Sabbath, feasts or holy days in describing how the Galatians were reverting back to their former ways. If Paul was actually writing to them about the Sabbath, feasts or holy days of God, he would have used those terms instead of “days, months, times and years.” Therefore, there is no real question that such “days, months, times and years” can only refer to pagan times of worship, not to the biblically ordained and commanded days of worship.

This is why Paul finished his admonition to the Galatians with this warning: “I am afraid of (for) you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.” (Gal. 4:11).

As we have seen, Orthodox Christendom’s interpretation and explanation of this complicated passage is entirely incorrect, and is only founded on bias and hostility against the Sabbath, feasts and holy days of God. Orthodoxy rejects the truth of God so that they may continue in their observance of a “Christianized” Sunday and the various occult holidays of this world.

Think what you want, but Paul is certainly not telling the Galatians that it's wrong for them to observe the Sabbath days according to the original commandment numbered 4.

prove-all · Aug 23, 2017

AN OBSERVER OF TIMES

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards.
Its speaking of the occult. Not about following sabbath days.

GAL.4
[8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them
which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God,
or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly
elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

[10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.
[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Its speaking of those who observe times,
it says nothing about sabbaths or feast days.

DEUT.18
[9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee,
thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his
daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination,

OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,

[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits,
or a wizard, or a necromancer.

2 CHR.33
[3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father
had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves,
and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.
[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof
the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.
[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in
the two courts of the house of the LORD.

[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom:

ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used
witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards:
he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards.
Its speaking of the occult. Not about following sabbath days.

LEV.19
[26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood:

neither shall ye use enchantment, (NOR OBSERVE TIMES).

[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners
of thy beard. Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any
marks upon you: I am the LORD. Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be
a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.

[30] (YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS),
and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

-You shall not observe times, BUT you shall keep my sabbaths says the Lord.

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Notice the last half of the verse? Elements of what? Judaism? No, the world.

Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Judaism knew God, they did not recognize Christ when He came.

Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

What were they returning to? Weak and beggarly elements of what?
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Who was Paul addressing here?

"Paul's letter is addressed "to the churches of Galatia" (Galatians 1:2), but the location of
these churches is a matter of debate. A minority of scholars have argued that the "Galatia"
is an ethnic reference to a Celtic people living in northern Asia Minor, but most agree that it
is a geographical reference to the Roman province in central Asia Minor, which had been settled by
immigrant Celts in the 270s BC and retained Gaulish features of culture and language in Paul's day."

Paul was not addressing Judah, he was addressing someone else.

Now read verse 10...

Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
These are not Jews observing Judaism, these are those who are of the world in Asia Minor
observing the weak and beggarly elements of the world, not Judaism.

prove-all · Aug 23, 2017

Bogadile said:

Well Jesus did give us Gods Oracles

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:

who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them

were committed [the oracles of God]. Romans 3:2

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need
that one teach you again which be the first principles of

[the oracles of God]; and are become such as have
need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12
-
If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God];
if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:

that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ,
to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11

- - -

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee,
that thou shalt be no priest to me:

seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.
O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

loveme1 · Aug 23, 2017

Bogadile said:

Read what Paul wrote:

1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Now it is my belief that the Commandments of GOD.. to the least were taught in the New Testament.. we are loved and set free to love in our newness.

The Messiah taught us the Great and second like it.. yet.. in the Old Testament it is written:

Exodus 20:
5You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing steadfast love to thousands[SUP]b[/SUP] of those who love me and keep my commandments

please read all because you will see difference in the Old and New Covenant..

Jeremiah 31

29In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

31“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. 33For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Grace and Truth came by Christ.

The Word mixed with Faith.

By Grace through Faith unto Good works not by works we are saved.

garee · Aug 23, 2017

stonesoffire said:

I dont know if this is off topic or not, but when you said "the kind of fast to be heard on High, I thought of these scriptures and wondered if they fit in true sabbath rest.

Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?

Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.

Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

Isa 58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:

and all the rest of the chapter.

Exactly, a chapter that cannot be left out when looking to the meanings of those different Sabbath ceremonial laws used as shadows. Isaiah 58 is beautiful parable using the principle found in 2 Corinthians 4:18.the key in searching for the spiritual meaning by looking at the things seen the temporal, giving us the unseen spiritual, the gospel.

Enow · Aug 23, 2017

unobtrusive said:

You do infer a lot that Sunday is a pagan practice, and you certainly danced around enough vague verses to insinuate that that was what Paul was referring to, but let's take a step back and acknowledged what Paul said about not judging any one in respect to the sabbath days.

Colossians 2:[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:[SUP] 11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:[SUP] 12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[SUP] 15 [/SUP]And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Care to explain what Paul is saying here because it reads to me that no one was to judge another believer in respect to the sabbath days; that means the annual sabbath as well as the weekly sabbath.

Was that not why He is Lord of the sabbath because He triumphed over the observance of the sabbath day when saved believers are complete in Christ apart from the law of keeping the sabbath day for why Jesus is triumphant?

Seems a lot of people are referring the observer of times and pagan practice for not observing the sabbath, but pagan do have practices on the sabbath day.

"Sunday keeping" DID NOT originate in the pagan religion of Mithraism!

So to insinuate pagan practices as referring to only the days of Sunday or other days, you are overlooking that they do have pagan practices on the sabbath day.

Quote from the site at that link above;

Now if the reference in Colossians will not do for you....

Romans 14:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Biblical ordinance given to all churches in setting aside a portion for the ministry to the missionary saints when they do their collecting on the first day of the week after church service.

1 Corinthians 16:1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

So... please stop making a federal case that Sunday worship is reverting back to pagan's practices.

Like it or not, you guys are preaching another gospel.. another calling... to observe the sabbath day as if we are not complete in Christ Jesus. We are. You are. That is why no one is to judge any saved believer in respect to the sabbath day one way or another, and that means not judging a saved believer for not keeping the sabbath day; otherwise you are denying that you are complete in Christ.

If you guys cannot honor Him on the sabbath day like you are supposed to and you are playing it safe by keeping the sabbath day, that mentality is voiding faith that you are complete in Christ; you better lean on Him then for help to worship Him on Sunday or any other day but the sabbath day to repent.

That would be a repenting action done by faith in Him that you really believe you are complete in Christ... otherwise... keep making a federal case while ignoring Paul's plain words to the contrary and you will find that when you stand before Christ, you did not keep the sabbath day holy after all. You will not get an "A" for good effort. You will get an "F" for failing to see your completeness in Christ.

Since no flesh shall glory in His Presence, no boastful sabbath day keeper will be in Heaven at the pre trib rapture event. When you make a big deal of it over other saved believers when you are judging them as living in sin for not keeping the sabbath day, you cannot say you would not boast of it in Heaven later on... and sabbath day keepers will not be able to, because sabbath day keepers will not be there... until you repent.... stop playing it safe... show your faith in Christ & worship Him on Sunday knowing you are complete in Christ to glorify only Him in Heaven for bringing us Home.

unobtrusive · Aug 23, 2017

Enow said:

The hand writing of ordinances was from religious leaders of pagan practices who demanded rights and wrongs to be listed on paper for each individual.

Before their conversion to Christianity, the people of Colossae practiced pagan worship because that's all they knew. Now that Paul had told them the truth of the Gospel, there were still non-believers within their ranks living in the city. Those who were not converted ridiculed the actions of those who were converted, and Paul was telling them not to be upset, judged, or distracted, or be tempted to revert back to the pagan worship they were used to before they knew the truth.

Here is the analysis of Colossians 2:16-17.

Here is an accurate translation of the original Greek:
Col. 2:16—“Therefore, do not allow anyone to judge you in eating
or in drinking, or with regard to a festival, or new moon, or the Sabbaths”—
verse 17—“which are a foreshadow of the things that are coming, but the
body of Christ.”

1) The first phrase—“Therefore, do not allow anyone to judge
you…”—means that because they were now converted and had
changed their lives to believe and obey the gospel, and were now
keeping the laws and commandments of God instead of their former
pagan ways, therefore, they were not to let anyone outside the
Church judge them because of their new way of life.

2) “…in eating, or in drinking…” When they were pagans they ate
all meats—clean and unclean. After conversion they no longer ate
unclean meats (I Tim. 4:1-5). Likewise, they no longer engaged in
drunkenness as in the past, which was also part of their pagan religious
practices. Now, because they had changed their ways, they
were to ignore the judgments and criticisms of those outside the
Church.

3) “…with regard to a festival, or new moon, or the Sabbaths…”
Rather than showing that the Colossians were being judged for
rejecting the festivals and Sabbaths of God, this phrase means the
exact opposite. As in the case of the Galatians, as former pagans
they had never observed any of the biblical festivals and Sabbaths
before their conversion. Therefore, those outside the Church were
not judging the Colossians because they were no longer keeping
these things, rather they were judging them because after their conversion
they were, indeed, keeping them. A word about “new
moon.” Since this is in the singular, it refers to the calculated
Hebrew Calendar, and must be referring to the Feast of Trumpets, a
holy day, because the first day of the seventh month (a new moon) is
the beginning date for the calculations of the Hebrew Calendar.

4) “…which are a foreshadow of the things that are coming…”
This important phrase shows that true Christians—those obeying
God’s way of life—will have an understanding of coming events in
prophecy as the plan of God unfolds.

5) “…but the body of Christ.” This phrase can reflect two meanings.
First, since the Colossian brethren were being judged by those
outside the church for their new, converted conduct, any judging
concerning these matters should only be done in and by the Church,
which is “the body of Christ.” Second, this phrase can also mean
that the reality of observing God’s Sabbath and holy days can be
found only in the “body of Christ”—the Church—not from outside
the Church. In other words, the true knowledge and meaning of such
days can be found only in the churches of God.

As Jesus said,
“Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom
of heaven, but to them [outside the Body of Christ—outside the
true Church of God] it has not been given…. But blessed are your
eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. For truly I
say to you, many prophets and righteous men have desired to see
what you see, and have not seen; and to hear what you hear, and
have not heard” (Matt. 13:11, 16-17).

The entire chapter of Colossians Two is a contrast between the way
of God through Jesus Christ and the way of pagans with their religious philosophies
and worship of fallen angels. When the verses of this chapter are
divided into these two contrasting elements, the true meaning and full intent
of what Paul wrote becomes clear.

A. Things relating to Christ and God the Father and the Christian way of life.
B. Warnings against paganism, religious philosophy and the worship of fallen angels.

JaumeJ · Aug 24, 2017

Thank you for your reverent sharing of the Word. Your attention to the situations and underlying causes for the writings amazes me. Do not change, ever, always be in the Word........Jesus Christ......amen.

prove-all said:

AN OBSERVER OF TIMES

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards.
Its speaking of the occult. Not about following sabbath days.

GAL.4
[8] Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them
which by nature are no gods.[9] But now, after that ye have known God,
or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly
elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

[10] YE OBSERVE DAYS, AND MONTHS, AND TIMES, AND YEARS.
[11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Its speaking of those who observe times,
it says nothing about sabbaths or feast days.

DEUT.18
[9] When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee,
thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his
daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination,

OR AN OBSERVER OF TIMES, or an enchanter, or a witch,

[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits,
or a wizard, or a necromancer.

2 CHR.33
[3] For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father
had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves,
and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.
[4] Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof
the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever.
[5] And he built altars for all the host of heaven in
the two courts of the house of the LORD.

[6] And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom:

ALSO HE OBSERVED TIMES, and used enchantments, and used
witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards:
he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger

Enchantments, witchcraft, familiar spirits, and wizards.
Its speaking of the occult. Not about following sabbath days.

LEV.19
[26] Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood:

neither shall ye use enchantment, (NOR OBSERVE TIMES).

[27] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners
of thy beard. Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any
marks upon you: I am the LORD. Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be
a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.

[30] (YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS),
and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

-You shall not observe times, BUT you shall keep my sabbaths says the Lord.

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Notice the last half of the verse? Elements of what? Judaism? No, the world.

Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Judaism knew God, they did not recognize Christ when He came.

Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

What were they returning to? Weak and beggarly elements of what?
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Who was Paul addressing here?

"Paul's letter is addressed "to the churches of Galatia" (Galatians 1:2), but the location of
these churches is a matter of debate. A minority of scholars have argued that the "Galatia"
is an ethnic reference to a Celtic people living in northern Asia Minor, but most agree that it
is a geographical reference to the Roman province in central Asia Minor, which had been settled by
immigrant Celts in the 270s BC and retained Gaulish features of culture and language in Paul's day."

Paul was not addressing Judah, he was addressing someone else.

Now read verse 10...

Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
These are not Jews observing Judaism, these are those who are of the world in Asia Minor
observing the weak and beggarly elements of the world, not Judaism.

Enow · Aug 24, 2017

unobtrusive said:

I do not know if God will help you see yourself straining at the gnat or not, but I can hope.

Paul cannot have written what he had written if the handwriting ordinances that were against "us" referred to pagan practices. He would not include himself in saying how the handwriting of ordinances of pagan practices was against him when it was not. So Paul was referring to Judaism.

Judaism was nailed to the cross. Pagan practices certainly were not shadow of things to come in regards to Christ Jesus.

Colossians 2:[SUP]14[/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[SUP] 15 [/SUP]And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

That is quite an assumption and an awful lot of inference to make it about pagan practices.

Only believers within their rank would dare to judge one another in regards to those things. Paul said the same thing to the Romans so there is no way this is about pagan judging believers in how they eat & drink or how they observe or not observe the sabbath days.

Romans 14:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.[SUP]9 [/SUP]For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

This is why you guys need to seriously reconsider all the fancy footwork you do with the scripture by inference and assumptions and read what is plainly stated to the believers in Christ Jesus.

Christ has triumphed over the sabbath day commandment which was a shadow of things to come, and that shadow being you are all guiltless for profaning the sabbath day because He is in you as triumphant so you can rest in Him from all your work in getting saved in becoming His which is how the sabbath day was the shadow of things to come in regards to Christ.

You rest in Him, not in the sabbath day. You cease from all work as God did from His, and that includes the work of the keeping of the commandment of the sabbath day. Rest in Him or don't.

Those who do not will be made to rest from their labors as the saints were forced to rest from their labors in Revelation 18th chapter as their works of keeping the sabbath day holy will follow them in the dust.... unless you repent to avoid being castaways as in left behind at the pre trib rapture event to be received later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not departing from the iniquity of keeping the sabbath day holy by which you judge other saved believers by.

All God the Father will see is His Son in you; He will not see a sabbath day keeper.

Believe in Him that you are complete in Christ or you don't where you have to keep the sabbath day.

LoveGodForever · Aug 24, 2017

Enow said:

Hello Enow,

So nice to meet you. I have been away for a while but I pop in here from time to time. It is nice to see someone interested in sharing God's Word. Col Chapter 2 and Romans 14 are actually talking about similar (not the same) things. God's Word is wonderful. It is interesting when you study the scriptures. Everything in the New Testament come from the Old Testament scriptures. Nothing in God's Word ever contradicts itself. If you find when you study the Word of God that some scriptures seem to contradict your understanding of the scriptures it should be a warning sign to you that maybe your interpretation of the scriptures are not correct. You wanted an answer to Col 2:14-17. To understand these scriptures you will need to have an understanding of the Old Testament scriptures. Are you happy to check some of the references I provide for you praying and asking Jesus like the faithful Bereans (Acts 17:10-11)?

Ok Lets get into it!

PART 1

Col 2:14-17,
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath day(s): 17, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The context is verse 14 which is the blotting out of the handwriting of ordinances to the cross. What is the handwriting of ordinances that were nailed to the cross? The Greek work used here is δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree; V16 Omit “the”not used in the Greek; Sabbath days is plural; Sabbaton meaning cease from secular work; rest)

Scripture points:

· Blotting out or nailing the handwriting of ordinances to the cross (v14)
· The cross triumphing over principalities and powers (v 15)
· No one to Judge you in meat and drink, holy days, new moon of the sabbath day(s) (v16)
· Which are a Shadow of things to come (v17)

ordinance.

So it is clear the context of Col 2:16-17 is the completion of the civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws of Moses which the writer says is finished and nailed to the cross.

Here is the actual Greek to English translation of the Col 2:16-17 verses from the interlinear:

16 Not therefore anyone you let judge in regards to food or in regards to drink or in regards to a feast (or festival) or a new moon or a Sabbath (plural). 17 which are a shadow of things coming but body of Christ.

The word rendered "holy-day" - ἑορτὴ heortē - in the Greek means a "feast" or "festival;"
Now, notice the key context within Col 2:16-17; No one is to judge you in regards to meat or drink, a feast (festival), or of the New Moon or of sabbath(s).

The Greek word for sabbath used G4521; σάββατο; sabbaton which means to cease from secular labor, stop work, rest.

Context within Col 2:16-17:
(1) meat or drink
(2) feast or festival
(3) new moons
(4) sabbath(s)

So the overall context of Col 2:14-17 is in judging in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses (v 14)

Col 2 is talking about the ceremonial laws from Moses that referred to the annual festivals of Lev 23; Deut 10; Num 27 and 28. Now let’s have a look at the Old Testament scriptures to see what Col 2 is talking about. Remember the overall context is in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses that were completed and nailed to the cross. If we can find references to the above context it will help us to understand what Col 2:14-17 is talking about because these are Shadows that pointed to Jesus.

Old Testament references to Col 2:14-17; Line upon Line Precept upon Precept:

Col 2:16-17,
Let no man therefore judge you in (1) meat, or in drink, or in respect of an (2) feast, or of the (3) new moon, or of the (4) sabbath(s): Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Eze 45:17-21,
It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the (1) burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the (2) feasts, the (3) new moons, and the (4) Sabbaths, at all the appointed (3) feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel. Thus says the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erred, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house. In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the Passover, a Feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

1Ch 23:31
and whenever burnt offerings were presented to the LORD on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moon (2) feasts and at the appointed festivals. They were to serve before the LORD regularly in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them.

2Ch 2:4,
Now I am about to build a temple for the Name of the LORD my God and to dedicate it to him for burning fragrant incense before him, for setting out the consecrated bread regularly, and for making burnt offerings every morning and evening and on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moons and at the appointed (2) festivals of the LORD our God. This is a lasting ordinance for Israel.

Hos 2:11,
I will stop all her celebrations: her (2) yearly festivals, her (3) New Moons, her (4) Sabbaths and all her (2) appointed festivals.

It is interesting to note in the Old Testament the word Sabbath (shabbath 7676 from shabath 7673 meaning “rest”) is not only used for the weekly Sabbath but is also applied to the first and last days of the annual Jewish Festivals. The Greek Word used in Col 2:16 is Sabbaton meaning to cease from secular work; rest.

The monthly New Moon Sabbaths in relation to these festivals could fall on any day of the week. These were to start the beginning of the annual Jewish feasts. They were to be rest (Sabbath) days and restricted or no work was to be done. (Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

High Sabbaths, in most Christian and Messianic Jewish usage, are seven annual Biblical festivals and rest days, recorded in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42. The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles). Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. (In other systems, it was Nisan 14, i.e., weekly but not annual Sabbath.) The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).

All of the above have their origin from the ceremonial laws of Moses found in Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29. All these references are in connection to; (1) Food and Drink offerings, (2) Feast days, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast Sabbath(s)

So in summary, it should be very clear that Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses along with the annual Jewish feast days that all pointed to the coming of Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross the Jewish feasts along with the food and drink offerings, festivals and New Moon festival Sabbath(s) which all pointed to Jesus where a shadow of things to come. Many of the feast days in Lev 23 were were none work days in the Greek Col 2:16 were Sabbaton cease from secular work.

Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses in the annual ceremonial Feast days of Lev 23; Deut and Numbers that all pointed to Jesus and were nailed to the Cross including the annual new moon feast Sabbaths that could fall on any day of the week.

Line upon line and Precept upon precept.....

God's 7th Day Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11) and the annual ceremonial Sabbaths for feast days of Col 2:14-17

What is the difference between God’s 4th commandment and the annual feast sabbath(s) of Col 2:16-17? To answer this question you need to understand the difference between God’s Law (10 commandments) and the laws of Moses. Let’s have a look at what that Word of God says. God’s Law (10 commandments) had a similar (not same) role is it did in the Old Testament as it does in the New and that is;

God’s Law (10 commandments) had a similar (not same) role is it did in the Old Testament as it does in the New and that is to

(1) point out what sin is and the punishment of sin which is death (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come.

Scripture proof:
Ex 32:16; Ex 31:18; 31:18; Ex 20:1-22; Deut 10:5; Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23; Heb 7:19; Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Rev 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1John 3:5-8; 1John 2:3-4; Ecc 3:14

(2) The laws of Moses however were the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation.

Scripture proof:
Lev 1:1-13; Lev 23:1-44; Num 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deut 24:10-11; Ex 24:3; Deut 31:24-26; Col 2:16-16; Heb 10:1; Eph 2:14-15; Lev 4; 5; 6; Heb 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29

Every reference in connection to Col 2:14-17 is in relation to (1) burnt offerings; (2) Sabbaths held at the New Moon feasts and at the appointed festivals and (3) food and drink offerings. The context is referring to the annual ceremonial feast days described in Leviticus Chapter 23; Numbers chapters 28 and 29. As mentioned earlier these were all done away at the cross because they were Shadows of an unfinished word that was completed at the death of Jesus (Col 2:16-17).

Let’s now look at what the 4th commandment actually says?

Exo 20:8-11,
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day.

Now please notice some key points;

Where does it say in the 4th commandment of God’s Law that we need to do (1) burnt offerings (2) keep the annual Sabbaths at the New Moons at the appointed festivals and (3) offer food and drink offerings? It does not because it is God’s Law that points out sin. It is the same Law that we have today and is forever because it was made by God himself and represents the character of God and is the knowledge of good and evil. It shows us what sin is (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23).

Now notice the last part of the commandment in Ex 20:11 this is the reason the commandment was given. (v11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day.This is a reference back to Gen 2:1-3
What does Genesis 2:1-3 teach us about God’s 4th commandment the 7th Day Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments?

GEN 2
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Scripture context points:
* God finished all the work of creation on the 7th Day of the week (v1)
* God ended His Work on the 7th Day of the creation week and rested from all His work of creation, it was completed no more work required (v2)
* God blessed the 7th Day and set it apart as a holy day as a memorial of creation

Critical questions and answers:

When was God’s 7th Day Sabbath made, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind?
It was made BEFORE the fall of mankind at the end of the creation week on the 7th Day and was the result of a FINISHED work!

Was God’s work of creation a FINISHED WORK or an UNFUNISHED WORK?
The 7th Day Sabbath was the result of the FINISHED AND COMPLETED WORK of creation!

When were God’s Laws and the laws of Moses given, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind? Obviously AFTER the fall of mankind (Ex 20:1-17, Lev 23:1-44, etc) they were part of God’s plan of salvation.

So in summary the 7th Day Sabbath is a memorial of the FINISHED work of creation and if it is a FINISHED work and a memorial of God’s creation that was given BEFORE the FALL of mankind before SIN had entered the world and before the plan of salvation was given to FALLEN man. If it was a part of a FINISHED work then it cannot be a Shadow of salvation because a Shadow was part of an UNFINISHED work given in the laws of Moses and was given AFTER the fall of mankind where the Sabbath was made before the fall.

Overall summary:
* Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses (v 14)

* The ceremonial laws of Moses included all the (1) food and drink offering, (2) feast days and festivals, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast sabbaths (v 16)

* These were all Shadows pointing to Jesus and were completed at His death (v14; 17)

* The in text context of Col 2:16 is referring to the Old Testament scriptures word for word in relation to the laws of Moses (Col 2:16-17; Eze 45:17-21; 1Ch 23:31; 2Ch 2:4; Hos 2:11; Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

* God’s Law (10 commandments) was the work of God himself and separate from every other law given to Israel. Its role was to point out sin

* The laws of Moses were to teach Israel the plan of salvation pointing to Jesus which was completed at the death of Jesus. It could not identify sin but its provided a cure for sin in animal sacrificed and burnt offerings and food and drink offerings which all pointed to Jesus (Col 2:14-17)

* Col 2:16 is referring to the annual New Moon ceremonial sabbaths connected to feast days and food and drink offerings and not the 4th commandment of God’s Law.

* God’s 4th commandment is a reference to Gen 2:1-3 which is the 7th day of the creation week which was part of the FINISHED work creation given BEFORE the fall of mankind so cannot be a part of any Shadow plan of Salvation because its origin is in the FINISHED creation week BEFORE the fall.

Closing remarks:

Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man. He is the God of creation that made it for mankind. God commands us to keep the 7th Day Sabbath as a Holy day because he rested on this day. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. If we love him we must follow Him (Mark 2:27-28; John 14:15)

Hope this helps.

LoveGodForever · Aug 24, 2017

Hi All,

Just popping in to wish you all a Happy Sabbath! May God bless every one of you! I love Jesus and His Word is so wonderful! We are so blessed!

[video=youtube;HsUugC_hLLc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsUugC_hLLc[/video]

In Christ Always!

unobtrusive · Aug 24, 2017

Enow said:

I agree about the "Judaism" thing, but that's addressed also by Paul to the Ephesians, as well as the Colossians.

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, *even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" (Ephesians 2:5)

The barrier between Jews and Gentiles was torn down (abolished) by the Gospel of Christ.

In the Greek, "handwriting of ordinances" is chriographon tois dogmasin - which literally means "handwriting in decrees or dogmas." In the New Testament, dogma always refers to "decrees" written by men, not God. Nowhere in the entirety of the Bible does dogma, "decrees," refer to any part of the law of God. Therefore, this phrase in verse 14 has nothing to do with Biblical law. The decrees were ordinances of Judaism to the Ephesians, and paganism to the Colossians.

In Colossians 2:14 (KJV) "Blotting out *the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"

People presume with this phrase "handwriting of ordinances" constitutes the laws and commandments of God. This assumption is incorrect. The handwritings (as I mentioned before in a previous post) are handwritten accounts of "right and wrongs" called "a note of debt." Therefore the words of Jesus, "And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors," teaching the disciples how to pray, becomes more profound and beautiful concerning His grace.

Enow · Aug 24, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

Hello brother,

Do lead by example, brother, as we go through this together with Him.

Here is a point of contention. How can the handwriting of ordinances be against us unless God actually held them against us that He would need to blot them out

If you note how some were attributing handwriting of ordinances to be about pagan practices, from which I pointed out, Paul could not include himself to say that those handwriting of ordinances were against "us" if he was referring to pagan practices, and so he had to be talking about Judaism.

Now you are attempting to share that this is about the ceremonial laws of Moses, of which I point out that if they are against us.. then God has to hold them against us as sins, right? That is why Christ died on the cross for.. for our sins.

Seems like a gross miscarriage of justice when Gentiles were not under those ceremonial laws of Moses for Christ to have died for them for those sins. So I say there is more to the list of sins than that.

No. It is not clear.

The fact that sabbath day(s) is listed as plural has to include the weekly sabbath, especially when there is no clarification that it did not include the weekly sabbath.

And there are scripture in the O.T. about judging believers in respect to any day as per the epistle to the Romans.

Romans 14:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.[SUP]9 [/SUP]For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

I do not even see an exception here from Paul so that no one misunderstood him that every saved believer, Gentiles & Jews alike, were to keep the sabbath day holy still.

Another point of contention is how are the ceremonial laws of Moses, the shadows of things to come in Christ?

I definitely can see how the weekly sabbath is a shadow of things to come in Christ.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So working to keep the sabbath day commandment is hardly ceasing from your work as God did from His in resting in Jesus Christ that you are saved simply by believing in Him. The fact that Jesus Christ is in you and is with you always is why He is triumphant which is also why you are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day.

You are inferring something not stated specifically but in general and for that to be taught in any church, one would make sure that the commandment of keeping of the sabbath day was not a part of that which was nailed to the cross.... but it was since we do not even have one church in Revelation being warned for not keeping the sabbath day holy or else.

To be continued....God be willing, since my reply to your post will not post because it is too long.

Enow · Aug 24, 2017

To be continued from earlier post.

LoveGodForever said:

And so was His finished work of redemption in having made you His.. forever which is why you can rest in Him from keeping the sabbath day from profaning it.

The Old Covenant as per the ten commandments is about obtaining righteousness and salvation by the deeds of the law. As much as you try to explain it was only the ceremonial laws of Moses, you have yet to explain the lack of clarity to make sure that no one misunderstood him that Gentiles were to keep the sabbath day holy still, especially when it is not a practice of the Gentiles.

Here is what was emphasized to the Gentiles in regards to keeping the laws of Moses.

Acts 15:[SUP]5 [/SUP]But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;[SUP] 9 [/SUP]And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?[SUP] 11 [/SUP]But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Now you may still be reading this as ceremonial laws that Peter was saying that the Jews could not bear this burden, but look at what was carefully instructed for the Gentiles to do.

Acts 15:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

There is no teaching the Gentiles to keep the sabbath day holy in regards to addressing the laws of Moses from which, if it was just the ceremonial laws, they would emphasize to the Gentiles that the weekly sabbath was still to be maintain so as to not confuse it with the other non-weekly sabbaths.

If we love Him, we should recognize what He has done on the cross. When He was with His disciples as they were picking ears of corn on the sabbath day from a field, the Pharisees were pointing out what was unlawful for His disciples to do on the sabbath day in Matthew 12:1-7.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.[SUP]2 [/SUP]But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;[SUP] 4 [/SUP]How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?[SUP] 5 [/SUP]Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?[SUP] 6 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Jesus referred to two incidents in the O.T. where the saints DID PROFANE the sabbath day but were GUILTLESS because they were in the Temple, but Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees that One greater than the Temple was here, inferring Himself, as to why His disciples were guiltless.

It is because God is with you; that you have been bought with a price and sealed as His where your body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit now as having Jesus Christ in you is why YOU are GUILTLESS for profaning the sabbath day.

That is why Jesus is Lord of the sabbath and why the sabbath day is not lord over man. Jesus had triumphed over the commandment of keeping the sabbath day holy so you can rest in Him for He is with you.

I know only God can cause the increase as He is the One ministering in me, to me, and thru me, but the weekly sabbath is the only sabbath I know of as one of the shadows of things to come in Christ Jesus where we can rest in Him as saved that we no longer need to "work" to keep the sabbath day.

JaumeJ · Aug 24, 2017

Always keep in mind that the Israel that was a theocracy no longer existed by the time our blessed Jesus came to save mankind, those who would believe Him.

The Israel of eleven and two half-tribes had dwindled down to Judah.

Because of this we, today, still refer to the Israel of Christ's time as Judah, although it's theocratic beginnings no longer existed.

When Jesus came, He had the already formed denominations with which to contend. The major two, Pharisees and Sadducees.

Those two "denominations" were the main of Judaism at the time of our Lord's first advent.

Today Judaism is no diffferent than is Christianity, both are a hodgepodge of mans collectiting people into a sphere of doctrine and dogma.

Bottom ine, and simplistically , all who truly beliee are of the faith of Abraham as taught by Jesus Christ, and this would include Hebrews who are seeking truth just as well as Christians who are seeking truth.

As long as minds are held captive by the denominational grip on man,one will never be free to understand Jesus Christ, or to you prefer Yeshua Mahiach?

Grace777x70 · Aug 24, 2017

If we think that keeping the Sabbath means what we do or don't do on a certain day - whether Saturday or Sunday - we have missed Christ Himself who is our true Sabbath.

The Old Testament view of the Sabbath is a mere shadow of the real thing - which is Christ Himself.

I encourage all of us to look into the New Covenant and you will begin to experience the true Sabbath rest that the Old Testament alludes to - and it is Christ Himself.

Accept no substitute or shadow. You will find that religion is a very poor substitute for knowing "Him".

JaumeJ · Aug 24, 2017

People who use the phrase "keeping the Sabbath" tend to hav tunnel vision as to what they mean.

If you mean "remember the Sabbath and keep it separate from the work days," then you are correct. I do this every Seventh Day because my Father likes that I do this.

If you think pleasing the Father after He allowed His only Begotten Son to die that horrible death on the cross jsut for me is being under the law, you have a very hard hearted view of why people love to be obedient when it comes to our Father's will and wisdom

Enow · Aug 24, 2017

JaumeJ said:

If you consider it as sinning against our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ for not remembering the sabbath day from the rest of the week, then whose heart is hardening when judging other believers when you are then, refusing to acknowledge why they are GUILTLESS for profaning the sabbath day?

So do remember Matthew 7:1 because by the measure you judge, you shall be judged.

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

So what work are we to do to do the work of God in being obedient?

John 6:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

I sure would like to meet a saved believer honoring the Lord on the sabbath day by resting in Him that they do not have to "work" to keep the sabbath day at all.

But if you remember the sabbath day to avoid sinning against the Lord, then you are still working.

prove-all · Aug 24, 2017

Enow said:

What was the handwriting of requirements?

"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross".

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right
to enter...the city" , the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us."

Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of
the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?
Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us,
which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)

The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances)
or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the stake, which some call a cross

Which requirements were wiped out?

the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin)
is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay

--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through
the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out
("the handwriting of requirements").

But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so. Notice what Matthew Henry's
Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us
a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14),
which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is
the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one
who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary
to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin.

This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us,
Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition,
Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:

NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears,
figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance
with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International)

In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19
where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out.
And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28)
to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27)
to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
(Galatians 3:13). The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.

But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.
I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)

While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Commandments
by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians who
continued to keep them[Paul included]

Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know
that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues,
thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood
(Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin,
were blotted out.

And why?

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus
once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin,
as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
(Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament
statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).

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