Not By Works

[joefizz]

Please list in order who has ever stated they were perfect and not sinned...

We will be waiting...

you sound like "legion" from the bible,lol!

 

[gb9]

Indeed.

Just don't forget King Saul, though.

but, was saul ever really 100% committed to God? did he obey the Lord when it seemed to serve his desires, but when putting God's instructions over his desires came up, he went with self??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

With all due respect the above is so hypocritical of you. The above is your daily, minute by minute practice on here sir. I hope you'll turn your anger, false teachings, hate, lies and hypocrisy over to the LORD. Seems to be your "prasso" and it is sad...

Lets just let them do what they want, and let the mods handle it. I have learned the hard way if we both banter back and forth like that, it makes us both look bad, and does nothing to help people learn about God. Although I am sure I will fail again at some point, I think we need to try to discourage each other from doing such, That includes me.

 

[Meggido]

well, I don't agree with works salvationists , and saying that believers can be perfect, so there.

So are you saying you do not believe believers can be made spiritually mature...after all, that is what perfect means in the NT....

 

[Meggido]

Well, we definitely delve a bit into the realm of speculation on these issues, but I'm not so certain satan's fall happened in Heaven. Most of what we glean about "the shiny one" lucifer, we get from Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. Notice how these verses seem to indicate his fall happened on Earth, in Eden.

“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

On the face of it this passage alludes to the possibility that satan was in the Garden of Eden when the original iniquity was found.
He absolutely wanted to be worshiped, and STILL does, as God,but I think he wanted other attributes of God as well, and certainly the ability to create matter, and especially sentient, organic matter, coupled with the desire to be worshiped, is what led to the birth of his iniquity.

God created beings, capable of love and worship.He wanted to be, or emulate, The Most High God. He and his followers could NEVER duplicate love, but in a warped, distorted way, his children worship him, and the rest.

Again, I don't want to make settled doctrine over this, just hashing it out brother.

thanks, I can see your point now Brother...

 

[preacher4truth]

Lets just let them do what they want, and let the mods handle it. I have learned the hard way if we both banter back and forth like that, it makes us both look bad, and does nothing to help people learn about God. Although I am sure I will fail again at some point, I think we need to try to discourage each other from doing such, That includes me.

I understand your point, yet I spoke with respect toward Megiddo and am not ashamed of addressing him thus - it was needful, and there is more behind it with him than people know. He's a big boy, hopefully he handles it in a big boy way, but that is up to him.

I hope to, as Paul said to the Galatians see the form of Christ in him...one can hope...

 

[joefizz]

but, was saul ever really 100% committed to God? did he obey the Lord when it seemed to serve his desires, but when putting God's instructions over his desires came up, he went with self??

well he was 100% For God but alas it was his unwitting "disobedience" that lost him his kingdom,for twice did he unwittingly "disobey" what God told samuel to tell saul to do,and so not only did he lose his kingdom he even didn't get to "add" to his kingdom!

 

[gb9]

So are you saying you do not believe believers can be made spiritually mature...after all, that is what perfect means in the NT....

I believe this- the Sermon on the Mount laid out how a Christ follower is supposed to live. do any of us keep those standards 24/7. no

James said to him who knows to do good, and does not , to him it is sin. so, have all of us done the good that we could have , and known we were supposed to, 24/7 ?? no.

so, that is why I do not use or agree with perfection.

 

[Meggido]

It's his thread Laura...and he has been much critized for it. He sticks to the foundation of faith alone without works for salvation to enter the gates of heaven. It's truth. And he does not swerve. When one is critized over and over, one tends to get defensive.

and I wish I could remember how to spell critized..critizied...nope.

so its ok for him and others who agree with him but not anyone else?

 

[joefizz]

Lets just let them do what they want, and let the mods handle it. I have learned the hard way if we both banter back and forth like that, it makes us both look bad, and does nothing to help people learn about God. Although I am sure I will fail again at some point, I think we need to try to discourage each other from doing such, That includes me.

I don't banter,I politely tell it like it is.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

here you go again....stop it...now....you are sowing discord to discredit....

I think we should let yesterday drop and forgive each other and start again new. I'm guilty nearly every day of saying things I wish I hadn't, or that I wish I had worded differently or with more love and less pride. I hope you guys can forgive me and I forgive you and start again in love.

I sometimes think He is working here to get us to walk in love and forgive and be forgiven no matter what flesh or whose flesh is stirred up at any given time. I WANT you guys to hear me and understand what my intent is and I truly WANT to hear and understand your intent. It's WHY I come in here. I'm okay with different views and understandings. Even if I don't look at it the same way, I WANT to understand what you guys mean to say.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

you sound like "legion" from the bible,lol!

Huh...? I'm not following you there...

 

[Desertsrose]

I wrote about hyper grace and Free Grace Theology, two erroneous and dangerous doctrines. Before you disagree with that statement, when you declare holiness being a part of the believers life you are already preaching against both systems by stating this. These teachings deny this necessity.

One can teach all they desire about holiness, but this won't be the result in the life if the person is a false converted or unconverted.

Here is my original post, minus the meme, to which you asked your question:

​Thanks P4T,

I didn't see this. There's so much traffic here it's difficult to keep up so I miss so much. I didn't know about the Free Grace movement, doctrine or whatever.

So they teach licentiousness? Yikes!

 

[joefizz]

I think we should let yesterday drop and forgive each other and start again new. I'm guilty nearly every day of saying things I wish I hadn't, or that I wish I had worded differently or with more love and less pride. I hope you guys can forgive me and I forgive you and start again in love.

I sometimes think He is working here to get us to walk in love and forgive and be forgiven no matter what flesh or whose flesh is stirred up at any given time. I WANT you guys to hear me and understand what my intent is and I truly WANT to hear and understand your intent. It's WHY I come in here. I'm okay with different views and understandings. Even if I don't look at it the same way, I WANT to understand what you guys mean to say.

It's what we are to do anyways for "any whom tilleth the ground and looketh back is not fit for the kingdom of heaven".

 

[Meggido]

Jesus did promise He wouldn't leave us..... but read your Bibles, there's no place that He promised WE WOULDN'T LEAVE HIM.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Stephen63 again.


this is what I asked yesterday and nothing...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Lets just let them do what they want, and let the mods handle it. I have learned the hard way if we both banter back and forth like that, it makes us both look bad, and does nothing to help people learn about God. Although I am sure I will fail again at some point, I think we need to try to discourage each other from doing such, That includes me.

It includes me too. And you're right - it makes us all look bad when we do it. We should discourage each other from it, amen! When we start going towards a brother with the same lack of love he comes at us in, we're just wasting our time because we're not speaking in love just like he isn't. If I EVER learn to not revile back and snip back, I will be very grateful and happy.

 

[joefizz]

Huh...? I'm not following you there...

read the bible it is a demon name that is "many" demons hence my comment lol,or if you prefer watch the end of ghost rider 1 on youtube,and you'll get what I mean,hahaha hahaha hahaha!

 

[UnderGrace]

There is no discussion to be had when the purpose is to trip you up.

Lets just let them do what they want, and let the mods handle it. I have learned the hard way if we both banter back and forth like that, it makes us both look bad, and does nothing to help people learn about God. Although I am sure I will fail again at some point, I think we need to try to discourage each other from doing such, That includes me.

 

[UnderGrace]

Just curious what you have read that would indicate they licentiousness?

​Thanks P4T,

I didn't see this. There's so much traffic here it's difficult to keep up so I miss so much. I didn't know about the Free Grace movement, doctrine or whatever.

So they teach licentiousness? Yikes!

 

[Meggido]

Ah...meggido...Mathew 25, I looked it up...I don't think I want to get into it because I have some views on it that will just make some mad and some really don't believe as I do that there is a gathering together prior to the tribulation. And we're doing pretty good this morning and some just can't handle people having different views on it.

Maybe we can discuss it elsewhere some day.

agreed, and might be closer to agreement on this one than you think...