New world order Bible Versions (NIV ESV NKJV etc)

[J7]

I guess the words are just words but the spirit behind the words is where the spirit of Christ is found. Only a few people can see this because it can only be seen through 100% faith in the words.

Human beings are made in the image of God.

What does this mean?

Human beings have the highest capacity for rational intelligent thought - above all animals - which is expressed in language.

So the connection between language, intelligence, and God-likeness is intrinsic. We are wired like God.

 

[Locutus]

There is truth to be understood in the following passage:

Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

ESV Now after this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.

The majority of new versions including the ESV has the Lord appointing 72. Which is truth? Which can be trusted?or who killed Goliath? Which can be trusted?

And how exactly does this affect any Christian doctrine?

KJV 2 Samuel 21:19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

ESV And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, struck down Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

NASB There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.

And how exactly does this affect any Christian doctrine?

Unfortunately in regards to 2 Sam 21:19 you have somwhat misrepresented the issue here, both the ESV and the NASB have foot notes to the verses explaining the different readings/translation which according to Adam Clarke is from a corruption in the text:

Verse 19

Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim - slew - Goliath the Gittite - Here is a most manifest corruption of the text, or gross mistake of the transcriber; David, not Elhanan, slew Goliath.

In 1 Chronicles 20:5, the parallel place, it stands thus: "Elhanan, the son of Jair, slew Lahmi, the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear-staff was like a weaver's beam." This is plain; and our translators have borrowed some words from Chronicles to make both texts agree.

The corruption may be easily accounted for by considering that ארגים oregim, which signifies weavers, has slipped out of one line into the other; and that הלחמי בית beith hallachmi, the Beth-lehemite, is corrupted from לחמי את eth Lachmi ; then the reading will be the same as in Chronicles. Dr. Kennicott has made this appear very plain in his First Dissertation on the Hebrew Text, p. 78, etc.


ESV Footnotes

(21:19) Contrast 1 Chronicles 20:5, which may preserve the original reading

NASB Footnotes

(21:19) In 1 Chr 20:5, Lahmi, the brother of Goliath

 

[John146]

And how exactly does this affect any Christian doctrine?




And how exactly does this affect any Christian doctrine?

The doctrine of God's word. Can it be trusted? That's a pretty important doctrine.

See post #360

 

[posthuman]

The words we read and the people that we learn from DIRECTLY form our version of Christ. So the words really do matter.

you kjv-ites have your own "version of Christ" ???

do you not get Christ from Christ Himself? is He not alive? present? working?

He's not "an idea" -- He's a person, a living person. God. i get to know Him because He Himself reveals Himself to me. that doesn't originate with people or with blocks of text.

 

[Dino246]

How about the most important doctrine that God's word is truth and can be completely trusted.

There is truth to be understood in the following passage:

Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

ESV Now after this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.

The majority of new versions including the ESV has the Lord appointing 72. Which is truth? Which can be trusted? ...

You quoted the ESV as saying seventy, then stated that it says 72. Get your facts straight.

As I have stated several times before, the KJV is not the accepted standard. Comparing any modern version to the KJV and claiming that a difference proves that the modern version is wrong simply doesn't hold any value. By that logic, it is equally valid to claim that because the KJV doesn't match the modern version, that the KJV is wrong. Neither is logically sound.

The following verses in the KJV conflict:

"Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel." (2 Kings 8:26, KJV)

"Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri." (2 Chronicles 22:2, KJV)

Deal with this clear contradiction and tell me whether the KJV "is truth and can be trusted". If you try to explain this away for the KJV then intellectual integrity demands that you allow for explanations of apparent anomalies in the modern versions.

 

[Locutus]

That still does not define how any Christian doctrine is affected, obviously you are trying to use this "doctrine of God's word" as away of refusing to answer the question. And we all know you can't answer my question.

 

[trofimus]

The doctrine of God's word. Can it be trusted? That's a pretty important doctrine.

See post #360

You have only a translation of selected manuscripts made by mortal people.

Its not the same thing as the word of God in its original form.

 

[Locutus]

you kjv-ites have your own "version of Christ" ???

do you not get Christ from Christ Himself? is He not alive? present? working?

He's not "an idea" -- He's a person, a living person. God. i get to know Him because He Himself reveals Himself to me. that doesn't originate with people or with blocks of text.

Of course they do, he had to go back to the future to read Shakespeare to get his Archaic English lesson....

 

[Dino246]

... The biggest change of them all, in my opinion, is the doctrine of faith and justification.

Galatians 2:16

KJV Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

...
The KJV states the truth that the believer is justified by the faith OF Jesus Christ, not faith in Jesus Christ. All the new versions state that it's man's faith in Christ that justifies. HUGE DIFFERENCE! Whose faith justifies? Christ's or man's? Man's pathetic faith waivers day by day, moment by moment. Christ's faith never waivers. Amen for that.

Your argument contradicts Scripture (in the KJV!) as found in...

Matthew 9:29
Romans 1:8
1 Corinthians 15:14
Ephesians 1:15
Colossians 2:5

and most clearly in 1 Peter 1:9 (KJV):

[SUP]7 [/SUP]That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Either the KJV is wrong in Galatians 2:16, or it is wrong in 1 Peter 1:9. Take your pick.

 

[unobtrusive]

I dont see any difference between the word of God and the Word of God, both are the spirit of Christ.

2 Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

John 17:17 - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Ephesians 4:15 - But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:

 

[J7]

That still does not define how any Christian doctrine is affected, obviously you are trying to use this "doctrine of God's word" as away of refusing to answer the question. And we all know you can't answer my question.

Counterfeit translations slip in all sorts of anomalies. E.G. A certain version told me, of an old testament figure, that 'the spirit of his father lived in him'.

I asked my Pastor what this meant and he went ballistic, because he said you would never find this kind of absurdity in a good translation. That is just a very slight sleight of pen, with quite serious consequences. Imagine what kind of other damage can be done.

The biggest load of hogwash that contaminates the Church these days is Futurism. This is a seriously pernicious doctrine, yet the bulk of people here will blather on about a 7 year Tribulation, which completely infects their thinking about life and everything under it. Futurism is rooted in mashing up Daniel 9:24-27. When you read the various translations of these verses, you get some idea of how so much confusion has been wrought.

 

[Locutus]

The NASB and KJV compared:

(NASB) nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

(KJV) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Both are basically saying the same (if understood correctly), to conclude otherwise is just grasping at straws.

 

[KJV1611]

Not always. What matters are spiritual truths. Not geographical data, numbers of people, one or two angels in the tomb etc.

Spritual truths like Jesus has his origins in the Father, he's not truly eternal. God preserved poor people but not his word. Women can teach men because it was cultural thing and the word actual words of the bible don't mean anything. I know all the arguments.

It's like I said before, the Christ a person believes in comes from the bibles they read and the teachers they follow.

 

[Locutus]

It doesn't matter what version some people use because they are making some weird and far out conclusions.

 

[John146]

You quoted the ESV as saying seventy, then stated that it says 72. Get your facts straight.

As I have stated several times before, the KJV is not the accepted standard. Comparing any modern version to the KJV and claiming that a difference proves that the modern version is wrong simply doesn't hold any value. By that logic, it is equally valid to claim that because the KJV doesn't match the modern version, that the KJV is wrong. Neither is logically sound.

The following verses in the KJV conflict:

"Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel." (2 Kings 8:26, KJV)

"Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri." (2 Chronicles 22:2, KJV)

Deal with this clear contradiction and tell me whether the KJV "is truth and can be trusted". If you try to explain this away for the KJV then intellectual integrity demands that you allow for explanations of apparent anomalies in the modern versions.

The simple solution to this "apparent contradiction" is that Ahaziah was physically 22 years old when he began to reign, but since God had appointed Jehu to cut off the house of Ahab, as a son of Ahab through marriage, he was 42 years old. The information is all there in the texts.

 

[John146]

You have only a translation of selected manuscripts made by mortal people.

Its not the same thing as the word of God in its original form.

Remember not to put more emphasis on the "originals" than God has.

 

[trofimus]

Spritual truths like Jesus has his origins in the Father, he's not truly eternal. God preserved poor people but not his word. Women can teach men because it was cultural thing and the word actual words of the bible don't mean anything. I know all the arguments.

It's like I said before, the Christ a person believes in comes from the bibles they read and the teachers they follow.

Yes, the Son has his origin in Father (wow, what a surprise, one would never guess that ). They are not in our time so He is eternal.

God will preserve His people from this generation for ever, if you are talking about that Psalm.

His word is preserved in our printed Bibles very well. We miss nothing important when we can work with our sources at least a little.

Not sure how the issue of women teaching men relates to our discussion.

Christ is only one and His Spirit too. What is important is to have the fruits of Spirit, not to have the perfect Bible. If you are full of peace, love, purity etc you are actually above any book. God will not ask us "did you trust the KJV", but "did you help people, were you a peace maker?" etc.

 

[Locutus]

When I received the knowledge of Christ from a missionary in Nepal there was no bible to be had, yet I received the gospel without the aid of King Jim's bible.

 

[KJV1611]

Example: What truth do we have when it comes to homosexuality? If what we believe comes from a bible that cannot be trusted, then we have no standard to live by.

Homosexuality is a cultural thing.... the bible was written to a specific culture who did not accept homo's so that applied to that culture but it doesn't apply to us today because our culture accepts it. Don't pay any attention to what the bible says.

 

[John146]

The NASB and KJV compared:

(NASB) nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

(KJV) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Both are basically saying the same (if understood correctly), to conclude otherwise is just grasping at straws.

Whose faith justifies? Christ's faith? Man's faith?