Not By Works
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Do you realize you're repeating what the article teaches to refute the article?
Love changes us.
The article states it's not humanly possible, hence without the love of God. Exactly what you're saying here.
Yes we are changed and transformed by the love and forgiveness of God! Part of that transformation is the power to forgive and love others like He commands!
hence
Love changes us.
The article states it's not humanly possible, hence without the love of God. Exactly what you're saying here.
Yes we are changed and transformed by the love and forgiveness of God! Part of that transformation is the power to forgive and love others like He commands!
hence
‘I the chief of sinners am’
Sunday Morning Sermon
By: C.H. Spurgeon
Sunday Morning Sermon
By: C.H. Spurgeon
I confess I do not feel this as I ought, I do not mourn it as I ought; I have no repentance to recommend me; nay, Lord, I have no faith to recommend me either, for I do not believe thy promise as I ought; but oh! I cling to this text. Lord, thou hast said thou wilt not do it for my sake. I thank Thee thou hast said that. Thou couldst not do it for my sake, for I have no reason why thou shouldst. Lord, I claim thy gracious promise. 'Be merciful to me, a sinner."' Ah! you good people, this doctrine does not suit some of you; it is too humbling, is it not? You that have kept your churches regularly, and been to meetings so piously, you that never broke the Sabbath, or never swore an oath, or did anything wrong, this does not suit you. You say it will do very well to preach to harlots, and drunkards, and swearers, but it will not suit such good people as we are. Ah! well, this is your text—"I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." You are "whole"—you are; you "need not a physician, but they that are sick." Go your way. Christ came to save such as you are. You think you can save yourselves. Do it, and perish in the doing of it. But I feel that the same gospel that suits a harlot suits me, and that that free grace which saved Saul of Tarsus must save me, else I am never saved. Come, let us all go together. We are all guilty—some more, some less, but all hopelessly guilty. Let us go together to the footstool of His mercy, and though we dare not look up, let us lie there in the dust, and sigh out again, "Lord have mercy upon us for whom Jesus died."
"Just as I am, without one plea,But that thy blood was shed for me,And that thou bidst me come to Thee,O Lamb of God, I come, I come."
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The point is not that believing is something you 'do'. The point is believing is not among the things that you do that can not justify. Believing is not a part of the works that Paul says can not justify, and it never will be. Believing is in stark contrast to works of the law, not a part of those works. Believing is in fact the very thing you are to 'do' to be saved.
Works are required in that that is what believing looks like. Generally speaking, if your believing doesn't look like that then you do not have the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. Even Paul himself, the author of the 'works vs. faith' doctrine in the Bible said the faith that justifies is the faith that is expressed in love (Galatians 5:6). He did not say the faith that does not express itself in love justifies. He said the faith that does express itself in love justifies.
But so many people are taking false comfort in a so-called 'faith' that does not obey God in the two greatest commandments--love God/ love people. They don't even know what it means to love Biblically to begin with. I'm speaking generally of the church, of course. Love is not 'liking' people and then being nice to them because they are pleasing to you. That is not the love that justifying faith manifests itself in. Every lost human being on earth has that kind of love. That love does not come from God. No, justifying faith is signified by a very specific kind of God's love, the love of unconditional regard for other people. That's why godly love is the footprint and sign of being righteous through faith in Christ. The presence of the righteousness of Christ in a person by the Holy Spirit is signified by what that Holy Spirit does in a person.
The scriptures only point to that if that's the only scripture you look at. The whole counsel of scripture reveals that you must stay in the believing you started out in to be saved on the Last Day.
Yes. So keep being a sheep of God. The life with God that never ends is only for the sheep. Not for goats, not for former sheep.
That's right. Your faith is how you secure the power of God until the Day of Salvation (1 Peter 1:5). You lose the power of God to keep you until the Day of Salvation if you lose that which secures it, your believing.
A failure on Christ's part is never the reason why a person fails. His is a perfect ministry. That's why we must continue to rely on it. He will never be guilty of losing a believer through neglect or a failure to perform his priestly duties properly, as did the priests of old.
Yep. It's an iron clad promise. He won't fail you. That's why we are exhorted to keep believing in his ministry:
"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[SUP]f[/SUP] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess." (Hebrews 4:14 NIV)
The promises are sure because the minister of the promises is sure, therefore, keep believing in those promises. But the church sees the sure ministry of Jesus as meaning there is nothing a person can feel, think, believe, or do, or not do to forfeit Christ's ministry on their behalf in heaven. Can you see the difference between the two ways of looking at the verse above?
That's right. That's why we need to keep believing. His power and his promise can not be destroyed through his own ineptness (he has none), nor can anything or anybody interfere with what you cling to by your believing. This is why we are exhorted to keep believing. The one who promised is faithful and sure.
Works are required in that that is what believing looks like. Generally speaking, if your believing doesn't look like that then you do not have the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. Even Paul himself, the author of the 'works vs. faith' doctrine in the Bible said the faith that justifies is the faith that is expressed in love (Galatians 5:6). He did not say the faith that does not express itself in love justifies. He said the faith that does express itself in love justifies.
But so many people are taking false comfort in a so-called 'faith' that does not obey God in the two greatest commandments--love God/ love people. They don't even know what it means to love Biblically to begin with. I'm speaking generally of the church, of course. Love is not 'liking' people and then being nice to them because they are pleasing to you. That is not the love that justifying faith manifests itself in. Every lost human being on earth has that kind of love. That love does not come from God. No, justifying faith is signified by a very specific kind of God's love, the love of unconditional regard for other people. That's why godly love is the footprint and sign of being righteous through faith in Christ. The presence of the righteousness of Christ in a person by the Holy Spirit is signified by what that Holy Spirit does in a person.
The scriptures only point to that if that's the only scripture you look at. The whole counsel of scripture reveals that you must stay in the believing you started out in to be saved on the Last Day.
Yes. So keep being a sheep of God. The life with God that never ends is only for the sheep. Not for goats, not for former sheep.
That's right. Your faith is how you secure the power of God until the Day of Salvation (1 Peter 1:5). You lose the power of God to keep you until the Day of Salvation if you lose that which secures it, your believing.
A failure on Christ's part is never the reason why a person fails. His is a perfect ministry. That's why we must continue to rely on it. He will never be guilty of losing a believer through neglect or a failure to perform his priestly duties properly, as did the priests of old.
Yep. It's an iron clad promise. He won't fail you. That's why we are exhorted to keep believing in his ministry:
"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[SUP]f[/SUP] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess." (Hebrews 4:14 NIV)
The promises are sure because the minister of the promises is sure, therefore, keep believing in those promises. But the church sees the sure ministry of Jesus as meaning there is nothing a person can feel, think, believe, or do, or not do to forfeit Christ's ministry on their behalf in heaven. Can you see the difference between the two ways of looking at the verse above?
That's right. That's why we need to keep believing. His power and his promise can not be destroyed through his own ineptness (he has none), nor can anything or anybody interfere with what you cling to by your believing. This is why we are exhorted to keep believing. The one who promised is faithful and sure.
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And that's why works are required.
They are required in the same way getting wet is required for the person who goes swimming. But somehow that can only be heard by many in the church as a works gospel. They can't fathom how works must be required in salvation and those works not be the effort to make oneself righteous before God.
They are required in the same way getting wet is required for the person who goes swimming. But somehow that can only be heard by many in the church as a works gospel. They can't fathom how works must be required in salvation and those works not be the effort to make oneself righteous before God.
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hey ~
I was posting against this heresy some weeks back and I left the site...again...had some things to deal with and thought I might rejoin in the fall, but it's almost September now so close enough I guess.
Didn't make it to church this am cause of a sick family member, but I watched someone on tv I never watched before and I almost bypassed him. An old man, in his 90's, not exactly pretty like so many it seems these days, no fancy backdrop or big screen with the worship team careening across the platform with gel anointed hairstyles...something he said caught my ears as I was surfing and I think it was God
He was speaking about being steadfast and not giving up. He was talking about standing firm in our faith and the day to day grind. None of this WOF nonsense, or Jesus didn't mean what He said. (I think Jesus meant EXACTLY what He said and still does).
The man was speaking to me. And I needed to hear what he had to say. I left some wks back cause of the type of heresy you are responding to...the false gospel message being spread. People saying that Jesus before and after the resurrection are 2 different 'gods'.
This is, IMO, what the NT reveals as doctrines of demons and we are heading into the dark ages it seems. People are abandoning the Light of the World in favor of this you can have heaven on earth right now. Whatever you want, it's yours. I first heard that false gospel when I was very young and bought into it for awhile and began to grow withered fruit on my little branches.
I cannot stand the fighting and name calling that goes on here as well as the dispicable false alarmist cries of people are being slanderous and full of 'malice' if we object to Jesus 'crucified' again as it were.
Anyway, I agree with your stand, I believe it is biblical and I thank God you are standing up to the noise being trumpted here.
I was posting against this heresy some weeks back and I left the site...again...had some things to deal with and thought I might rejoin in the fall, but it's almost September now so close enough I guess.
Didn't make it to church this am cause of a sick family member, but I watched someone on tv I never watched before and I almost bypassed him. An old man, in his 90's, not exactly pretty like so many it seems these days, no fancy backdrop or big screen with the worship team careening across the platform with gel anointed hairstyles...something he said caught my ears as I was surfing and I think it was God
He was speaking about being steadfast and not giving up. He was talking about standing firm in our faith and the day to day grind. None of this WOF nonsense, or Jesus didn't mean what He said. (I think Jesus meant EXACTLY what He said and still does).
The man was speaking to me. And I needed to hear what he had to say. I left some wks back cause of the type of heresy you are responding to...the false gospel message being spread. People saying that Jesus before and after the resurrection are 2 different 'gods'.
This is, IMO, what the NT reveals as doctrines of demons and we are heading into the dark ages it seems. People are abandoning the Light of the World in favor of this you can have heaven on earth right now. Whatever you want, it's yours. I first heard that false gospel when I was very young and bought into it for awhile and began to grow withered fruit on my little branches.
I cannot stand the fighting and name calling that goes on here as well as the dispicable false alarmist cries of people are being slanderous and full of 'malice' if we object to Jesus 'crucified' again as it were.
Anyway, I agree with your stand, I believe it is biblical and I thank God you are standing up to the noise being trumpted here.
PHart,
I believe you are a seeker of truth.
From reading your posts it appears to me that you are minimizing what happens after we are saved. You see Paul stressed that his old man was dead and now he only lived according to his new man in Christ.
At what point in your belief system do you get to pass from the old former ways and step into the glorious life found in Christ? When does bearing the fruit of the Spirit come by abiding in Him? And allowing Him to transform your heart?
I am not a Calvinist. So I can't speak for Calvinism. But I do believe in the power of God to save and transform those who believe in Him. The focus is not on our belief to save, but our belief in the One who saveD us.
Now what I'm about to say might not make sense to you, but pray about it.
Once we realize we ARE saveD, we can then step into the promise of being saved. This is the outward effect of our trust in the work of the cross. But it first flows from the eternal reality of who we are in Christ.
Paul described it like this, "I have been crucified to the world..." AND the life I NOW live... I live by faith in the Son of God.
For Paul faith was a burning of the boats. He had stepped out of death and stepped INTO Life.
The word saved in Scripture is a triune reality, it is translated as saved, delivered, and healed.
It starts with righteousness in Christ, we are saved, moves into peace reigning in our hearts and minds, and joy manifesting through our lives. The point I'm stressing is that we must first believe we are righteouss in Christ so that the hope of glory Christ is formed in us.
John wrote his readers so they might know they ARE saved.
And then explains what being saved looks like this. This is Holy Spirit lead discipleship.
In Christ we move, live, and have our being.
Paul describes it like this, "May the EYES of your heart be opened..."
I pray the same for you and any reading this, may the eyes of our hearts be opened to seeing the spiritual Kingdom of God in us now through the Spirit of God.
I believe you are a seeker of truth.
From reading your posts it appears to me that you are minimizing what happens after we are saved. You see Paul stressed that his old man was dead and now he only lived according to his new man in Christ.
At what point in your belief system do you get to pass from the old former ways and step into the glorious life found in Christ? When does bearing the fruit of the Spirit come by abiding in Him? And allowing Him to transform your heart?
I am not a Calvinist. So I can't speak for Calvinism. But I do believe in the power of God to save and transform those who believe in Him. The focus is not on our belief to save, but our belief in the One who saveD us.
Now what I'm about to say might not make sense to you, but pray about it.
Once we realize we ARE saveD, we can then step into the promise of being saved. This is the outward effect of our trust in the work of the cross. But it first flows from the eternal reality of who we are in Christ.
Paul described it like this, "I have been crucified to the world..." AND the life I NOW live... I live by faith in the Son of God.
For Paul faith was a burning of the boats. He had stepped out of death and stepped INTO Life.
The word saved in Scripture is a triune reality, it is translated as saved, delivered, and healed.
It starts with righteousness in Christ, we are saved, moves into peace reigning in our hearts and minds, and joy manifesting through our lives. The point I'm stressing is that we must first believe we are righteouss in Christ so that the hope of glory Christ is formed in us.
John wrote his readers so they might know they ARE saved.
And then explains what being saved looks like this. This is Holy Spirit lead discipleship.
In Christ we move, live, and have our being.
Paul describes it like this, "May the EYES of your heart be opened..."
I pray the same for you and any reading this, may the eyes of our hearts be opened to seeing the spiritual Kingdom of God in us now through the Spirit of God.
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it is a quandry, isn't it?
and yet so many of the you DON'T need works (they do not seem to understand what the works are and I will post that another time) seem to be very keen on having a MINISTRY of great importance with all the sign gifts, gifts of the Holy Spirit, miracles following (if you can call laughing hysterically for no reason and braying like a donkey a miracle) and dancing and generally have a grand old time that never stands up to the day to day grind of life and god forbid that God would ever just have a regular good ole life like He does for most of us because we need to learn to STAND before we can walk and certainly walk, which is so boring compared to running or flying like a eagle
I may not make sense in the above but I am convinced a few might get it...LOL!