Preterists - Put up or shutter up
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I am not being vulgar here, nor am I even trying to be. In this rapture doctrine, some hold to a secret rapture. I don't know how many of the pre-trib believers hold to this, but in this secret rapture, ppl are gone without anyone noticing it. Just like in the Left Behind series. I watched, I believe it was the first one, where the guy's wife and daughter go missing and he hunts for them. Now, here's where I warned ppl I was not being vulgar. Husbands and wives do what husbands and wives do. Say this rapture takes place as they are being husband and wife and only one is a believer. They will have to know that the other is gone like *poof*.
So the secret rapture is out the window. Again, I don't know the % of pre-trib rapture believers hold to this secret rapture, though.
So the secret rapture is out the window. Again, I don't know the % of pre-trib rapture believers hold to this secret rapture, though.
In fact, the noun in the nominative singular, is χιλιάς which is feminine. This is a "group" of a thousand. In fact, that is the word used in Luke 14:31; Acts 4:4; Rev. 7:4-8, 11:13, 14:1 and 21:16.
The word used in the above verses in Revelation, is an adjective, not a noun. It's lexical form is:
χίλιοι, αι, α
Quite simply, it is a word that describes "year" or ἔτη, such as in verses 20:2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7!
So, in fact, there is NO "The Millennium" at all in Rev. 20. All those words, as you so aptly have [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]illustrated, Stephen, are adjectives.
And just for reference, there are two lexical forms of the word in BDAG. None of them are the forms you give above. Again, they are [/FONT]χιλιάς and χίλιοι. [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]And if you want to be correct,[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] χίλια [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]is in the accusative case, in all the times it appears in Rev. 20.[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]And for reference[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif], Χιλίων[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] is genitive plural, [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]χιλίας [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] is genitive singular. So, your occurrences are not different words, just in different cases.
And in fact, you are also wrong in Rev. 20 about the word not being plural. The word years or [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]ἔτη[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] is accusative plural, feminine, which is why the adjective must be accusative feminine plural. So, it is PLURAL in the example in Rev. 20. Because it describes a plural noun. The adjective must agree with the word it describes in Greek, German, French, Spanish, etc. Only English fails to note that distinction.
So, once again, a little bit of knowledge, and reading Strong's, instead of knowing Greek and using Bauer (BDAG) results in some wrong interpretation.
However, you were right to call me on my last statement. I was meaning, that this so-called "thousand year millennium" (rather redundant, since a millennium means thousand!) In which Jesus will set up his Kingdom, and then be overcome by the devil. Because, if Jesus is ruling and reigning, I don't believe things will ever fall apart. The devil will be gone, overthrown forever when Jesus returns.
But getting back to the use of "thousand," for example, 2 Peter 3:8, is NOT talking about the Millennial reign, but rather using the word "thousand" to be a definite, literal period of time, but rather, thousand represents the eternity of God.
[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"Now, dear friends, do not let this one thing escape your notice, that a single day is like a thousand years with the Lord and a thousand years are like a single day." 2 Peter 3:8[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]That is what I meant, although I realize it did not come across that way, which is on me![/FONT]
Beale in his NIGTC The Book of Revelation, has a lot to say about whether the thousand years is literal or figurative. But, I have a massive headache, and I haven't yet done my basic Bible reading and Greek study and Bible reading for the day, and it is already 11pm PDT.
So, perhaps tomorrow. I would love to counter all the misinformation given here. Well, I did in the last post, at least making some sense (at least to me!) about the Greek.
But symbolic versus literal has to wait till tomorrow. Because, God always sandwiches a literal chapter in the middle of symbolic apocalyptic revelation. NOT!
More tomorrow, if I remember. My husband got a massive cold from one of our grandsons and I think I might be next! Yikes!
So, perhaps tomorrow. I would love to counter all the misinformation given here. Well, I did in the last post, at least making some sense (at least to me!) about the Greek.
But symbolic versus literal has to wait till tomorrow. Because, God always sandwiches a literal chapter in the middle of symbolic apocalyptic revelation. NOT!
More tomorrow, if I remember. My husband got a massive cold from one of our grandsons and I think I might be next! Yikes!
Whether the 1000 years is literal or indicative of some other finite duration of time is a bit academic, as we will find out in the fulness of time. It only becomes thorny when the Preterists shanghai it as part of their theology, and say we are in it right now, and it means "a long period of time"
Preterism is very sketchy in many ways, but Jesus actually specifically targeted it in his Olivet Prophecy; it is an old chestnut. He told the disciples not to confuse the destruction of Judea and Jerusalem with his second coming:
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Preterism is very sketchy in many ways, but Jesus actually specifically targeted it in his Olivet Prophecy; it is an old chestnut. He told the disciples not to confuse the destruction of Judea and Jerusalem with his second coming:
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
I am ignorant of the term, preterist, so I will need a cursory definition, however I know the Holy Spirit does not err in the bbeliever, so none are ignorant amateurs, they may be new to the faith, and not well versed in the texts of the Word, but then no one is.
Only the HOly Spirit gives us life and truth. It is the Spirit that gives life, the written code (without the Holy Spirit) kills. I see Bible packing mobs killing with the doctrines they spout, understanding nothing.
Only the HOly Spirit gives us life and truth. It is the Spirit that gives life, the written code (without the Holy Spirit) kills. I see Bible packing mobs killing with the doctrines they spout, understanding nothing.
Hello, I am back after giving a gander at the preterist docgtrine, and after just two sentences I realized it is nothing more or less than the view of some on the end times, how they develop and when they are.
All I can say is it is a lot of self-glorifying hooey because the Word informs us of all we need to know..
Sure, folks have the right to be preterists and tead volumes and volumes on man-conceived doctrines and dogmas, but any child of Yahweh who wants the truth must pray and read the Word. He will be given all he needs to make it through this age of darkness.
Ae we in the end times? Of course we are......we have been since Jesus Christ was here. Are we close to the last trump? I should think so, though I probably will no longer be quick in the flesh when it sounds, I believe most youger adults will be here. If I am wrong n this, not to worry, it is taught to be urgent in season and out, so no harm no foul.
We must all be prepared for Christ's return.........and I do believe He is returning soon, come dear Yeshua, come, amen...
All I can say is it is a lot of self-glorifying hooey because the Word informs us of all we need to know..
Sure, folks have the right to be preterists and tead volumes and volumes on man-conceived doctrines and dogmas, but any child of Yahweh who wants the truth must pray and read the Word. He will be given all he needs to make it through this age of darkness.
Ae we in the end times? Of course we are......we have been since Jesus Christ was here. Are we close to the last trump? I should think so, though I probably will no longer be quick in the flesh when it sounds, I believe most youger adults will be here. If I am wrong n this, not to worry, it is taught to be urgent in season and out, so no harm no foul.
We must all be prepared for Christ's return.........and I do believe He is returning soon, come dear Yeshua, come, amen...
Now my thinking is "Gosh! What ever happened to the mark of the Beast and no one on earth being able to buy or sell, not to mention all of the other prophesies contained in the Book of Revelation?" The mortal wound? the surviving. the image???? Ohe well, men can dream up anything they can imagine, written fromthe beginning. They cannot invent truth.
Hey Ahwatukee,
The reason this scripture is so important to them, and you probably know it, is that a literal interpretation of this scripture would collapse their doctrine, for they believe we're already in the thousand year reign of Christ, which in & of itself is a joke, & apparently we've already been it over 2,000 years already.
The reason this scripture is so important to them, and you probably know it, is that a literal interpretation of this scripture would collapse their doctrine, for they believe we're already in the thousand year reign of Christ, which in & of itself is a joke, & apparently we've already been it over 2,000 years already.