Not By Works

[7seasrekeyed]

Peter was restored before Jesus said one word to him on the beach, The mere fact peter w there to begin with ws because he was forgiven. Jesus went to get them remember. .

All Jesus did was give peter the confidence he needed to go do what God needed peter to do.

Your right, many believe, not all are saved, we are saved by true saving faith, Not mere belief Even demons believe yet tremble.

As Jesus said in John 6, Peter was included with the group of those who believed. Not the group of people who di dnot believe (which Judas was included in that group)

All Jesus did was give peter the confidence he needed to go do what God needed peter to do.

no. we see a changed Peter ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST. AFTER the Holy Spirit fell.


you do believe Jesus had to die and be restored to life by the Father BEFORE the new covenant was enacted, right?

so, if saving faith is believing in our Lord Jesus Christ, as the only begotten son of God, who died for our sins and rose again and lives forevermore at the right hand of the Father and to Whom God has given all things and put all things under His feet and Who has the power to grant eternal life to those who believe, then how was Peter or anyone else saved?

I point you again to the covenant between Abraham and God. God made that covenant with Abraham. What did God ultimately ask of Abraham? didn't He tell Abraham to sacrifice Issac? and didn't Abraham OBEY?

God stopped his hand but ONLY when Abraham was sure to have obeyed, standing over his long awaited promised son, with sacrificial knife in his hand. God provided a sacrifice (He still does)

then we also have Moses whom God sought to kill because of his DISOBEDIENCE. Moses' wife took care of the matter

BOTH testify PRIOR to the ten commandments.

It is obvious that God never intended salvation through the keeping of a set of rules. HOWEVER, it is also obvious the covenant is ONLY in affect, when the 2nd party, us, OBEYS...ie Abraham obeying and the possible deathly consequences of NOT obeying we see in Moses

that is not a work. God has kept His part of the covenant by sending His Son. His Son was obedient unto death.

We, accept Jesus as our Savior in order to become a part of the NC God extends. We enact and show the covenant true when we obey, as did Christ, our example in all things

this is not about works. please try not to confuse it with works

but if you note, works are the acceptable and expected outcome of faith...saving faith...in Christ

and then further, after we have the simple works, outward expressions of our faith, we have the gifts of the Holy Spirit that are given as the discretion of God, by His Spirit

you cannot teach a person how to be anointed. you cannot teach a person what God gives as HE chooses

I would say you can impart a gift as per scripture, but many hands imparting a so called gift are actually imparting demons

and that has become Christianity 101 and most deny it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What other law is there?

Paul taught the New Covenant in place of the Old...

Paul is in no way saying.. those of you loving your neighbour and GOD have fallen from Grace... No.. He is saying those who lose Faith in the New Testament believing they need to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses are in error...

They are not believing to the saving of their soul but being bewitched to believe works will save them.


Nothing done not in Faith is relevant....

Paul never said those who lost faith lose salvation, He said those who never had faith were never saved. A person who has faith in the law may try the church out for awhile. but if their faith is in the law. You will go back to who you are.

as a dog who returned to his vomit, dog i always a dog.

a person who was made a new creature will not act like he did before. because he is no longer that peron. He was changed by Christ.

God said he will finish the work he started.(not that he may finish it) DO you believe him?

Your right, nothing done not in faith is relevent, It will be burnt as wood hay and straw. But he himself (if he was saved) is still saved.

if he is not saved, It will not be burnt, HE WILL in the eternal life, because he was never saved ..

 

[UnderGrace]

Can you know whether the person is living out God's love or the love of the natural man with certainty?

How about this message board if someone becomes angry is that because they did not have God's love?

Do not the servants of Satan masquerade as servants of light?
2 Cor 11:14

Nope. People without the Spirit can not fake God's love. God's love is so contrary to our natural inclinations that we simply won't do it until we are regenerated and trained up in it's ways.

God's love is a suffering love. People of the world love when it is beneficial to them and it doesn't cost them anything. They love the things and people which please them. God's love seeks what pleases and benefits someone else, particularly it's enemies (you know, the person who doesn't agree with your doctrine, for instance). They can say 'hi' and give out generous gifts and 'like' the posts of those who they agree with and with whom they have no friction with or have family family ties. But they can not walk in God's love which loves it's enemies and those who can not benefit them in any way or pay them back. They can't do that because they don't have the Spirit in them from where that love comes from.

Saved people are signified by this God kind of love, not the love natural people of the world have.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

no. we see a changed Peter ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST. AFTER the Holy Spirit fell.


you do believe Jesus had to die and be restored to life by the Father BEFORE the new covenant was enacted, right?

so, if saving faith is believing in our Lord Jesus Christ, as the only begotten son of God, who died for our sins and rose again and lives forevermore at the right hand of the Father and to Whom God has given all things and put all things under His feet and Who has the power to grant eternal life to those who believe, then how was Peter or anyone else saved?

I point you again to the covenant between Abraham and God. God made that covenant with Abraham. What did God ultimately ask of Abraham? didn't He tell Abraham to sacrifice Issac? and didn't Abraham OBEY?

God stopped his hand but ONLY when Abraham was sure to have obeyed, standing over his long awaited promised son, with sacrificial knife in his hand. God provided a sacrifice (He still does)

then we also have Moses whom God sought to kill because of his DISOBEDIENCE. Moses' wife took care of the matter

BOTH testify PRIOR to the ten commandments.

It is obvious that God never intended salvation through the keeping of a set of rules. HOWEVER, it is also obvious the covenant is ONLY in affect, when the 2nd party, us, OBEYS...ie Abraham obeying and the possible deathly consequences of NOT obeying we see in Moses

that is not a work. God has kept His part of the covenant by sending His Son. His Son was obedient unto death.

We, accept Jesus as our Savior in order to become a part of the NC God extends. We enact and show the covenant true when we obey, as did Christ, our example in all things

this is not about works. please try not to confuse it with works

but if you note, works are the acceptable and expected outcome of faith...saving faith...in Christ

and then further, after we have the simple works, outward expressions of our faith, we have the gifts of the Holy Spirit that are given as the discretion of God, by His Spirit

you cannot teach a person how to be anointed. you cannot teach a person what God gives as HE chooses

I would say you can impart a gift as per scripture, but many hands imparting a so called gift are actually imparting demons

and that has become Christianity 101 and most deny it

I believe Peter. Like Abraham, believed God and it was accredited to him as righteousness. which was long before Abraham did done work, and many many years (I believe decades) before he offered his son.

Jesus asked peter three times from a reason, He told him basically, I know you can not say you agape me now. But I still want you to go do my work, I trust you.

God has done the same for me, we all need encouragement, Saying you will or have lost salvation if you sin is snot encouragement to grow and continue to walk, that encourages fear not trust.

 

[BillG]

What I find interesting in my life when I am struggling.
Yes I hate to say it but I do struggle.

Is that when I do struggle and I pray I am always led back to the one thing, the one person that matters.

And that is Jesus. When I focus on him things seem so much easier, better comforting.
At the end of the day it is all about him and him only.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Paul never said those who lost faith lose salvation, He said those who never had faith were never saved. A person who has faith in the law may try the church out for awhile. but if their faith is in the law. You will go back to who you are.

as a dog who returned to his vomit, dog i always a dog.

a person who was made a new creature will not act like he did before. because he is no longer that peron. He was changed by Christ.

God said he will finish the work he started.(not that he may finish it) DO you believe him?

Your right, nothing done not in faith is relevent, It will be burnt as wood hay and straw. But he himself (if he was saved) is still saved.

if he is not saved, It will not be burnt, HE WILL in the eternal life, because he was never saved ..

this is not the gospel and not scriptural

if we confess out sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins

if someone is caught IN sin (meaning dug in and not just passing through) restore that one

you cannot restore something that has not left. restoration means a return to what was right before it became wrong

ignore these NT scriptures at your own peril...you and everyone else who believes these lies are tasty delights

I could go on and on but it is ALL in the Bible

we do not magically become changed

that is nonsense and if someone believes that, they are deceived

I'll let others take this one up, because this is the kind of thing that is sweeping churches and it is going to send people to the hell they do not believe in

I don't mean you personally, but I think you are swallowing something with a big nasty sharp bone in it

seriously, I'm not going to get further involved because I don't want to get that upset at things I cannot change

people have to change. people have to read the Bible and stop believing this sort of dangerous garbage

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What I find interesting in my life when I am struggling.
Yes I hate to say it but I do struggle.

Is that when I do struggle and I pray I am always led back to the one thing, the one person that matters.

And that is Jesus. When I focus on him things seem so much easier, better comforting.
At the end of the day it is all about him and him only.

It is awesome that we have an ABBA father, we can go to to any time and he loves us, just like jesus loved peter.

 

[Magenta]

God's greatness in salvation does not remove man's responsibility to keep believing to the very end to be saved in the very end. We have the greatest of great coaches in the Holy Spirit to encourage us to believe to the very end. I give God all the credit he is due in keeping me believing to this very day (31 years). But his greatness in helping me continue to believe never releases me from the obligation to respond to his encouragement to keep believing, or the danger that I may one day refuse his encouragement to keep believing because of trials and troubles and temptations for this world. God doesn't do my believing for me. He helps me to believe, but he won't do it for me.

This is the crux of the whole free will issue. I personally prefer the term self will God makes it possible for us to believe, but it is us who must repent of our rebellion against Him and His ways, and come to believe the gospel, which is of salvation and victory over sin and death that God offers to all people who place their faith in the accomplished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, where He shed His righteous blood as a propitiatory sacrifice to pay the sin debt required under the law; we believe also in His resurrection, looking forward to that glorious day when we shall likewise be raised to life ever after through His resurrection to new life. So many say something is required beyond believing to be saved, but then fall back to saying they rely on Christ, just as those they oppose do, so it often seems to become about semantics.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

this is not the gospel and not scriptural

if we confess out sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins

if someone is caught IN sin (meaning dug in and not just passing through) restore that one

you cannot restore something that has not left. restoration means a return to what was right before it became wrong

ignore these NT scriptures at your own peril...you and everyone else who believes these lies are tasty delights

I could go on and on but it is ALL in the Bible

we do not magically become changed

that is nonsense and if someone believes that, they are deceived

I'll let others take this one up, because this is the kind of thing that is sweeping churches and it is going to send people to the hell they do not believe in

I don't mean you personally, but I think you are swallowing something with a big nasty sharp bone in it

seriously, I'm not going to get further involved because I don't want to get that upset at things I cannot change

people have to change. people have to read the Bible and stop believing this sort of dangerous garbage

Ah, another worker

why not go back to law, that's what you want me to do, no thank you, if jesus onsacrifice is not enough, you and I are lost, he is not coming back to earth.

wihout he shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness. Only death can cause forgiveness,

fran?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Ah, another worker

why not go back to law, that's what you want me to do, no thank you, if jesus onsacrifice is not enough, you and I are lost, he is not coming back to earth.

wihout he shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness. Only death can cause forgiveness,

fran?

how do you do it?

how do you consistently misconstrue what someone writes and then go off all self righteous on them?

no I'm not fran...I see she was banned

I'm sevenseas...check the moniker. apparently I'm hiding in plain sight

you have a wall up. when you install a door, maybe I'll visit

 

[Magenta]

I'm sevenseas...check the moniker.

 

[Meggido]

if you tell the truth, and others receive it incorrectly , that is on them.

I have personally heard pastors say they have " housekeeping " and " keep 'em in line " messages on file to keep their folks on the straight and narrow.

do you these wasteful " sacred straight " are helpful or useful. or should truth be told. saved by grace, not good behavior.

Why should spiritually mature saints need to be scared straight and retaught an elementary doctrine that grace saved them and not their good behavior?

 

[loveme1]

Paul never said those who lost faith lose salvation, He said those who never had faith were never saved. A person who has faith in the law may try the church out for awhile. but if their faith is in the law. You will go back to who you are.

as a dog who returned to his vomit, dog i always a dog.

a person who was made a new creature will not act like he did before. because he is no longer that peron. He was changed by Christ.

God said he will finish the work he started.(not that he may finish it) DO you believe him?

Your right, nothing done not in faith is relevent, It will be burnt as wood hay and straw. But he himself (if he was saved) is still saved.

if he is not saved, It will not be burnt, HE WILL in the eternal life, because he was never saved ..

Galatians 3

1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it beyet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

[Zmouth]

I mean we are saved by our faith exactly the way Jesus means it:

"50And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”" (Luke 7:50 NASB)

44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.


45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.


46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.


47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.


48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.


49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?


50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 7:44-50

 

[BillG]

It is awesome that we have an ABBA father, we can go to to any time and he loves us, just like jesus loved peter.

What I find interesting in my life when I am struggling.
Yes I hate to say it but I do struggle.

Is that when I do struggle and I pray I am always led back to the one thing, the one person that matters.

And that is Jesus. When I focus on him things seem so much easier, better comforting.
At the end of the day it is all about him and him only.

The thing is when I do this I realise what a dumb sheep I am.
I smack my head and think "Oh foolish Bill"

 

[Meggido]

Now small fellowship groups are being condemned? Unbelievable.

Stop spreading discord and lying about what someone said...Nobody said this but you...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

how do you do it?

how do you consistently misconstrue what someone writes and then go off all self righteous on them?

no I'm not fran...I see she was banned

I'm sevenseas...check the moniker. apparently I'm hiding in plain sight

you have a wall up. when you install a door, maybe I'll visit

please show me where I erred about your belief, otherwise all I can do is assume I was right.

i just asked, people leave and come back all the time and come back under new names, it is a coincidence she left and you arrived.

 

[Stephen63]

I mean we are saved by our faith exactly the way Jesus means it:

"50And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”" (Luke 7:50 NASB)

Aannd, let's not forget that was still under the Old Covenant.

 

[Magenta]

The thing is when I do this I realise what a dumb sheep I am.
I smack my head and think "Oh foolish Bill"

We are all prone to relying on ourselves at times, and going off track as a result. The more we see the results of relying of Christ and God's ways, the easier it becomes for us to lay our burdens on Him and trust. I love some of the 12 step literature that makes plain where we find a solution: "There is One Who has all power."

​ ​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Galatians 3

1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it beyet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Paul is speaking to you and intone who teaches we are saved originally by the hearing of faith, then must perfect that salvation by works,

he just happ me to speak to people who taught law. What makes them any different from many in the modern day chuch who teach the same, even though they do not use works,


If works of the law given god god will not save you, what makes you think any work at all will keep you saved?