Not By Works

[Meggido]

Nor will you receive any from me because it is undue. You can get your validation from the several who are disobedient to Christ.



Yes, fully aware, but contained in it was your referencing others who have rightly called you out for your repudiation of church. That includes me, so it wasn't only Magenta you were addressing. It was others as well.

You sought validation of others who share your attitude about church which is why you put it out there. I'm here to invalidate that.

Anyhow, congrats! You got pats on the back for your stance against Christ and his church of which you were seeking affirmation.



OK, so what you said was true. What I said was also. You weren't just addressing Magenta, you took a swing at those who have called you out, seeking to garner approval for your stance, and disagreements toward those whose stance is biblical.

Basically it was all carnal and divisive, not to mention your unbiblical walk.



CC isn't a church, nor are you in church or attending church by typing on a keyboard in a forum.

You will stand before Christ and give an account of this, though, you think you're justified and that you will not.

I take it from the many likes you got here for your stance against Christ's bride, rebellion to His decree of assembly that many here as well do not attend church either and/or heartily support those who publicly rebel against the assembly.

That is shameful.

No one should be arguing theology on a forum who doesn't place themselves under the authority of a local church, because frankly they are behavioral heretics and hypocrites.

I will gladly continue on this stance even in the face of those who say they love Jesus and hate his bride, no matter how unpopular this biblical stance becomes among professing believers.

Enjoy your time here, it may get cut real short...I asked you not to pick on this new babe in Christ and your pride could not let it go.

You have been reported for this and the other post...chiding and placing this young babe in Christ in condemnation, the Bible says anyone in Christ Jesus is not under condemnation...

You have only yourself to blame for the report

 

[PHart]

"I you could lose your salvation, you would." John MacArthur.

None of us are smart or strong enough to keep ourselves saved. Our salvation is based upon the works of the Christ, not ours.

But the work of Christ in salvation is applied through OUR BELIEVING. And Christ hardly leaves us to conjure up the faith to believe. He supplies faith liberally to the one who needs and wants the faith to believe. But Christ will never do our believing for us. That's our responsibility. And it's our responsibility to rely on him for a continual supply of faith (the 'knowing' that something is true) upon which we do our believing/trusting.

Thank God we have the continuing grace of God available to help us not lose what we would certainly lose if God left it entirely up to us with no help from him to keep believing. He gave us the grace to believe in the first place and he will provide the grace to continue to believe.

 

[Stephen63]

Being "obedient to the faith" is believing in Christ and His work for us for life and living.

This is a lie at worst, & incomplete at the very best.

This guy wants you to believe that obedience is realing believing in Christ, & nothing else.

This is why several posters have said that hypergrace, or free grace as others put it, requires no works whatsoever.

G777 constantly says this above & that's where they get that idea.

 

[stonesoffire]

The exact same thing you started believing the day you were born again and which caused you to be born again. And just to be clear, it's not new believing. It's a continuation of the believing that started the moment you got saved.

The traditional belief among OSASer's in the church has been that the true believer can't and won't stop believing, and thus, he will be saved on the Day of Judgment, and that if you do stop believing that shows you were never 'really' saved to begin with. That's actually a very insecure salvation because you won't know if you endured to the end until the end. So you can't know if your believing is genuine until it has proven to be genuine by enduring to the very end.

It is faith that grows out of believing, and again is a gift given by measure initially. The enduring comes all through life and if you carefully read those scriptures about enduring, it has to do with our first love. Will we continue to love Him with all our heart, mind, soul, strength. Faith grows as we go through trials and see His hand move at our faith.

 

[Meggido]

welp
i have a feeling you will continue making false claims

but i wont hold it against you
^_^

I forgive this guy to....I reported him anyway....

 

[Stephen63]

I haven't seen on CC a member post so much false doctrine, deceit, malice, slander, & lies as G777 does on a regular basis, & NO MOD TOUCHES HIM.

Report that.

 

[Magenta]

Is there a passage of scripture that says continuing uninterrupted in the believing you started out with in order to be saved on the Last Day is the equivalent of trying to earn your own salvation?

John said that those who left show they never truly belonged. This would be what we might call religious but lost. There are many in such a predicament. However, if they are diligently seeking Truth, He will be revealed to them, and that is a promise of God affirmed by the words of Jesus, as well as Jeremiah.

 

[SovereignGrace]

But the work of Christ in salvation is applied through OUR BELIEVING. And Christ hardly leaves us to conjure up the faith to believe. He supplies faith liberally to the one who needs and wants the faith to believe. But Christ will never do our believing for us. That's our responsibility. And it's our responsibility to rely on him for a continual supply of faith (the 'knowing' that something is true) upon which we do our believing/trusting.

Thank God we have the continuing grace of God available to help us not lose what we would certainly lose if God left it entirely up to us with no help from him to keep believing. He gave us the grace to believe in the first place and he will provide the grace to continue to believe.

Nothing can separate us from the love of God.

Now, if we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will tell a big honking lie when He says on the day of judgment 'I never knew you'. If you are saved, you are known by Him. If you then fall from grace and die lost, He can't say 'I never knew you' and be honest. He would have to say 'I once knew you and then forgot who you were after you left Me.'

 

[Meggido]

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit that is in us. It is not something "we do" to create.

It is the reality of what already is inside of us because we are in Christ and He is in us and Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. John 14:16.

We are a new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. In order for us to not have "faith" - Christ Himself would have to die because we are one spirit with Him. 1 Cor. 6:17

Galatians 5:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[SUP]23 [/SUP] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

True faith is of the heart and not in the head.

Here is the very same Greek word for "faith"being used when we got born-again after hearing the message of Christ.

Ephesians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Obedience in the New Covenant of the gospel of the grace of God is relying on Jesus for righteousness and goodness and life and blessing and salvation in all it's different aspects.

Disobedience to the faith in the New Covenant is relying on our own righteousness, our own doing of good.

Do the above and in this time on earth we will not experience the life that is in us from manifesting in our lives and we will not experience our inheritance that is ours in Christ.

( This does not mean that our loving Father sends His beloved children to hell even though His Son - our Lord obtained our eternal redemption by His blood. )

Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

faithfulness as a fruit of the spirit means we are faithful to temporal and spiritual things...I really am lost by what you are syaing here....

We have a good secular Job we demonstrate the fruit of the spirit of faithfulness by being the best employee we can be in all things to the employer...attendance, being productive, etc.....

If we serve at our local church....we demonstrate the fruit of the spirit of faithfulness by being the best servant we can be...

 

[stonesoffire]

had to come off ignoring you to address this...

Messiah is the english translated word for the Hebrew word mashiyach...which means anointed or anointed one...Messiah does not mean Jesus....

Yehoshua means Jesus Yeshua Hamashiach means Jesus the Messiah

When you say Christ you are saying the anointed one...when you say Messiah you are syaing the anointed one...

When you read Jesus Christ in scripture it is referring to Jesus' humanity....when you read Christ Jesus in scripture it is referring to Jesus' divinity

You just cut off your nose to spite your face and your lack of knowledge on the topic, and prove your utter, total and complete ignorance on this matter....it is not love1 that is showing to be a pharisee and spiritual and full of religion, but it is you....

How can you be arrogant and boast and brag of being seminary trained and you are ignorant of these meanings....This is seminary 101 and you just flunked out both intellectually and spiritually...

Now look what you did here. You teach a truth then slam someone for not knowing it! Good going there Meggido.

 

[PHart]

John said that those who left show they never truly belonged.

'Never' does not appear in the passage (1 John 2:19). He said when they left they showed that they did not belong to them. He didn't say they never believed to begin with, and he doesn't say they stopped believing. But what he does say to the remaining believers is to not do what they did, but rather continue to abide (vs.24). That indicates that believers can take the very same path the ones who departed took, thus destroying any contention that John was saying their leaving showed they were 'never' a part of us.

 

[stonesoffire]

Absolutely....eternal salvation, justification, sanctification and sealed with Holy Spirit of God by faith dia grace......David speaks to this...having the righteousness of God without the law imputed by faith void of works........!

Comparing the grace of one to another who opposes!

See the difference guys? Tell me now which way is better?

 

[PHart]

Nothing can separate us from the love of God.

Now, if we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will tell a big honking lie when He says on the day of judgment 'I never knew you'. If you are saved, you are known by Him. If you then fall from grace and die lost, He can't say 'I never knew you' and be honest. He would have to say 'I once knew you and then forgot who you were after you left Me.'

Why do you assume Matthew 7:23 is a blanket statement about all people who will be turned away at the Judgment? Does it say that? It says 'many' will he have never known. It doesn't say 'all' who are turned away at that time never knew him.

See, I used to use Matthew 7:23 to defend OSAS, too. Then I read Luke 13:26-27 and realized he was talking about a specific group of people for whom it was true that they never knew him, not that categorically and without exception each and every lost person arriving at the Judgment 'never' knew him.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Hebrews 6

6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
___________________________

maybe i need to pray and re read this a few times...


can others share what you see in this?

 

[Magenta]

'Never' does not appear in the passage (1 John 2:19). He said when they left they showed that they did not belong to them. He didn't say they never believed to begin with, and he doesn't say they stopped believing. But what he does say to the remaining believers is to not do what they did, but rather continue to abide (vs.24). That indicates that believers can take the very same path the ones who departed took, thus destroying any contention that John was saying their leaving showed they were 'never' a part of us.

That's right, they did not stop believing because they 'never' truly believed to begin with! That is why they were not among them to begin with. Do you not agree that are are people who are religious, but lost? If someone departs the faith, it was not a saving faith, but religion they have discarded, and hopefully will seek Truth to find Him.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[Grace777x70]

I can only say this, from all that I have seen of heretic hunting on the internet, is that every person becomes a heretic to someone else.

But, I feel like Satan is having a great laugh, having been played by all of his cunning devices

Somewhere in this mess the call to love has been lost.

I agree....

One thing to keep in mind when reading things on the "internet" about ministers and others in the body of Christ. I always say to "Go to hear what they are saying themselves to make sure what they are saying is true." and not a "twisting" of what is being said.

And sometimes we just plain agree to dis-agree too... ..

We have seen many twist what is being said by others or took parts of what is said and left out the context it was said in - and that could change the meaning of what was originally quoted.

There are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic that has a different view on some subject.

For example to those that believe in speaking in tongues and actually do pray in tongues on a daily basis to their Father - they have been called heretics by whole denominations because they don't agree with this doctrine.

There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham, Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Dr. Michael Brown, Justin Peters, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Andrew Wommack...etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies".

There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words in their opinion.

Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics".

Their motto is: "If people don't believe some scriptures in the way that"they"do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say..

" This is not what we were taught in "my" church or in our whole church tradition or denomination.

It's the nature of the beast. Martin Luther was a heretic to the catholic church at the time because for 1200 years prior to Luther they had always "believed" the same way.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a false teacher and they are in error and a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Why do you assume Matthew 7:23 is a blanket statement about all people who will be turned away at the Judgment? Does it say that? It says 'many' will he have never known. It doesn't say 'all' who are turned away at that time never knew him.

See, I used to use Matthew 7:23 to defend OSAS, too. Then I read Luke 13:26-27 and realized he was talking about a specific group of people for whom it was true that they never knew him, not that categorically and without exception each and every lost person arriving at the Judgment 'never' knew him.

If I thought I could lose my salvation, I would never leave my house, turn on the tv, get on the internet, or read magazines. I would be scared to death, knowing the sin that is all around me could cause me to lose my salvation.

 

[Stephen63]

he has a habit of doing that while at the same time crying we do that to him,

no no credibility at all.

If I didn't have any credibility, you wouldn't be typing this horse manure, trying to destroy it, would you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, I'm very certain that the believing I had to do to be saved was not a work that came from my flesh in order to receive a wage or reward of salvation (I'm amazed that there are those in the church that think 'believing' is among the works that count as earning one's salvation--utterly amazed). The very same exact believing I started continues to this day, therefore, Paul says I am presently saved:

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

If I stop believing, the above can in no way be true anymore--it says I am presently saved IF I am presently holding fast to the word of the gospel. Now if you want to argue that true believers can never stop believing that's fine with me. Because where the rubber hits the road and you yourself ever struggle with doubts and the temptation to depart the faith and begin to question whether or not you can stop believing it will be an entirely personal matter, one that you alone have to sort out. If you rely on the Lord to keep believing you'll be fine. If you find a return to the world to be more enticing and you truly do stop believing, you will certainly not have the eternal life you had while you believed. You will lose it. You will be lost and God will offer no chance for you to come back. He doesn't allow that.

So so you can not show me I am wrong, but want to continue to show us your view of belief, which in my view is no belief (faith) at all?

jesus said, it is the work of God we believe in the one he sent, so your stating Gods work is not his, but yours (it can be lost) thus that according to scripture is a work of man, which must be done to maintain salvation,

again, can you show me where I was wrong in what I original posted about not pseudo salvation and conditional life?

i removed you from my gnore list list because you seemed to change after someone left, yet here you are doing the exact same thing, I would love to discuss our beliefs, but will not stand for insincerity.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Why do you assume Matthew 7:23 is a blanket statement about all people who will be turned away at the Judgment? Does it say that? It says 'many' will he have never known. It doesn't say 'all' who are turned away at that time never knew him.

See, I used to use Matthew 7:23 to defend OSAS, too. Then I read Luke 13:26-27 and realized he was talking about a specific group of people for whom it was true that they never knew him, not that categorically and without exception each and every lost person arriving at the Judgment 'never' knew him.

So, what's the cutoff? 1 sin? Is it 5? 23? When do ppl lose their salvation?