Faith and Salvation

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heartofdavid said:
The parable of beating on the door,until the master agrees to provide.

I can tell you he honors all his word.

I can't tell you when....

I have used it many times.
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Would not all this "pressing" and beating" be works?, if so you are rather boastful. If true you should repent but wait...you cannot repent because only God can give you the ability to repent. By the way how did you find the right door? Sounds like more "works" to me. And how did you know it was even the right door? More "works"! You better ask God to give you the ability to ask Him to repent.

Also, how did you know it was God who spoke to you through the wind and turned you into jelly? Did you ask God if He was God and if you did was it you who did the asking or was it God giving you the ability to ask or just you asking on your own?

You seem to have a lot of repenting to do. I suggest you start asking God to give you the ability to ask Him to give you the ability to repent.

Your reasoning is the road that leads to chaos.
 
Jackson123 said:
repent is verb/ work

Definition of repent



  • intransitive verb
  • 1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
  • 2a : to feel regret or contritionb : to change one's mind
  • transitive verb
  • 1: to cause to feel regret or contrition
  • 2: to feel sorrow, regret, or contrition for

repenter

noun

NEW! Time Traveler
First Known Use: 14th century
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but repentance is noun

re·pent·ance
rəˈpentəns/
noun

  • the action of repenting; sincere regret or remorse.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]"each person who turns to God in genuine repentance and faith will be saved"


  • [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
    [TD]remorse, contrition, contriteness, penitence, regret, ruefulness, remorsefulness, shame, guilt"her lack of repentance angered them"

    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]







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The true meaning of words have no value in the world of "trust only" theology". Do not waste your time, they have discarded their dictionaries long ago.
 
seed_time_harvest said:
Something Is wrong then because scripture Interprets scripture,do you agree?

John 3:16
King James Version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
+++
James 2:24
King James Version(KJV)

24.)Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
+++
How would you harmonize those scriptures,Saying they are contradicting each other would be errant,do you agree?
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Crustyone said:
Matthew 5:17-19 [FONT=&]17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.[/FONT][FONT=&]18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.[/FONT][FONT=&]19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [/FONT]

This last verse tells us we need to try to follow the law. Jesus has freed us from condemnation of the law if we are trying to follow it, but not if we reject it. The ones we don't know about will not be held against us, the same as Jesus' sins when he was too young to know better. Isaiah 7:14-16 [FONT=&]14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.[/FONT][FONT=&]15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right,[/FONT][FONT=&]16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.


The works spoken of in your verse 24 are works of faith not works of law.[/FONT]
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I disagree that James was talking about faith alone.I think James was talking about how man Is justified by doing something with the body that justifies his actions to men.

GOD looks at the heart,man looks at the outward appearances.
 
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seed_time_harvest said:
I disagree that James was talking about faith alone.I think James was talking about how man Is justified by doing something with the body that justifies his actions to men.

GOD looks at the heart,man looks at the outward appearances.
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When have we ever been called to justify ourselves in the eyes of men?

The question in James 2 is, "can faith save him?" I can see why Martin Luther wanted to burn the book of James. He could not see the difference in the dispensations. We must ask ourselves, "To whom is Romans written? To whom is James written?" Are they the same audience?
 
John146 said:
When have we ever been called to justify ourselves in the eyes of men?

The question in James 2 is, "can faith save him?" I can see why Martin Luther wanted to burn the book of James. He could not see the difference in the dispensations. We must ask ourselves, "To whom is Romans written? To whom is James written?" Are they the same audience?
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Men can't see faith,so then faith can't save him according to the flesh but If a person HAS faith,they should show their faith by their works to men.
 
seed_time_harvest said:
I disagree that James was talking about faith alone.I think James was talking about how man Is justified by doing something with the body that justifies his actions to men.

GOD looks at the heart,man looks at the outward appearances.
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i believe James question why his folk said they have faith but do not love the needy.
 
oldhermit said:
The point that James is making is that justification does not precede works, it is the result of works. James only offers one example in Abraham's life to make this point. The fact is, every time Abraham obeyed God by doing what God told him to do, he was regarded as righteous. The Hebrew writer confirms that faith was confirmed WHEN Abraham obeyed God. James confirms that fact that when Abraham obeyed God, he was THEN regarded as righteous.
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So the Messiah telling us to hear and do is His way of teaching us what Faith is? Faith that worketh love.. The Messiah states those that Love Him Keep His sayings.

Believing to the saving of our soul rests on His Testimony.


The power is GOD and not a cross itself but who suffered upon it .. the power of GOD working in His Birth, Death and Resurrection for our Salvation.


We are made New to love and serve under Grace in the law of liberty.

Is a servant wise to not do the things His Master ask him to do? I think not.

The verses used to make work seem offensive is not for those that Love and obey the Messiah.

The law of work was dead and many were trying to enslave people to the dead husband rather than remain Faithful to the New.

Yet many who are built not upon the Rock misuse the verses like they actually understand them.. if they did they would not accuse Faithful Servants.

Nevertheless we are to continue Faithfully and lovingly for we were not called out to fall by the wayside...
 
seed_time_harvest said:
Yes,If they loved their neighbor,their actions would show It and they wouldn't be just saying,be ye warmed and filled and not giving what Is needed.
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The more I am pondering the more I believe that faith associate with agape love. Faith in Jesus, mean invite Jesus in, and Jesus in us make us like Jesus,

Jesus sacrifice on the cross for other

Stephen become like Jesus, sacrifice his life for other.

One day may be, one of us die for other and be with the Lord, gain ultimate happiness in heaven.
 
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Apart from faith it is impossible to please God. Faith is the opposite of Works. No kind, form, measure, effort, deed, motive, etc. can please God to the extent He saves. One and only one condition for salvation, "Faith". Some other words are synonyms for faith that is determined in context. Christ Alone, Grace Alone, Faith Alone, to the Glory of God Alone. The gospel of John uses the verb form of faith 94 times and 2 times as an adjective. It is a dominate theme of John, it is a clear teaching on what pleases God, our Lord unto salvation and after salvation. No kind or amount of works saves and works that can't save cannot remove a person from Christ either, impossible. Works which cannot save anyone cannot condemn anyone either. Good works are only acceptable in Christ that are motivated out of our love for Him as believers only, not out of duty and if one is disobedient, they lose reward, not salvation. The key of understanding is this, if works can't save you then works can't condemn you either. Once we are saved by faith alone in, Christ alone, to the glory of God Alone we cannot be removed from that state, but we can suffer fellowship as a result of not walking with Him, not salvation. God's Blessing to All.
 
Can salvation come through good works without faith in God?
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Many Christians do not recognize that God needs faith to work our his purpose .He needs to believe, exercise his faith before it is worked out. By faith God believed when he spoke the words as a work of his faith... "let there be" and he saw his work of faith was good. .

From my experiences many say God does not have faith or need it.

The good work of Christ’ in respect to His three day labor of love was not without the faith or belief of Christ it showed him doing his work he promised he would do. (suffer for our sin )He is our Faithful creator who creates new creatures by a work of His faith.

What is some believe not? (no faith) Will it make the faith of God that works in the believer to both will and do his good pleasure, without effect?.

To cause as an effect is to work.its the faith of God coming from Not our new faith we can offer towards him that does work in us to save us. He will finish it (his good work of His faith in us) till the end .

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.Rom 3:3
 
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”

It is just this simple, saved by faith and live by faith. Now, no one can work or do a work to be saved and once saved never lost again, or once saved always saved because in that a lost person can't be saved by his own merit, so it is on his on merit he can no lose it either. If works can't save and they can't cause loss of salvation. The two are antithetical of each other. Once saved always saved never lost again does not mean a believe can disobey and lose reward. We must distinguish between the use of faith unto salvation and walking in faith as a new creation. The argument of show faith by works is address to believers not the lost. To use this verse to support loss of salvation is to take the writing out of context and misinterpret the scripture.
 
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