Hell on Earth
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Well what do you think the purpose of Jesus coming. Why did he have to die? Because we were already dead but God sent us a saviour to save us. To take us out of this world. Through Adam we died. Now here we are in the place of the dead. So we are the ones who need to be redeemed but since we all are sinners Jesus came down to be the acceptable sacrifice. Since there was no sin in him he did not have to pay the price of sin which is death. So when Jesus's body died he kept living and when we get baptized with the holy spirit we become one with him and we now share his fate, which is with God. He saved us that's why he said he is the narrow gate the only way to God. He's the gate for us to leave "hell"
Psalm 77:15
With your mighty arm you redeemed your people, the descendants of Jacob and Joseph.
Isaiah 29:22
Therefore this is what the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, says to the descendants of Jacob: “No longer will Jacob be ashamed; no longer will their faces grow pale.
Isaiah 43:1
[ Israel’s Only Savior ] But now, this is what the Lord says— he who created you, Jacob, he who formed you, Israel: “Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine.
Isaiah 63:9
In all their distress he too was distressed, and the angel of his presence saved them. In his love and mercy he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old.
Revelation 14:3
And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
Luke 1:68
“Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, because he has come to his people and redeemed them
With your mighty arm you redeemed your people, the descendants of Jacob and Joseph.
Isaiah 29:22
Therefore this is what the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, says to the descendants of Jacob: “No longer will Jacob be ashamed; no longer will their faces grow pale.
Isaiah 43:1
[ Israel’s Only Savior ] But now, this is what the Lord says— he who created you, Jacob, he who formed you, Israel: “Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine.
Isaiah 63:9
In all their distress he too was distressed, and the angel of his presence saved them. In his love and mercy he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old.
Revelation 14:3
And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
Luke 1:68
“Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, because he has come to his people and redeemed them
"The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28,29.
"The wicked is reserved to the day of destruction." "Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb." Job 21:30,32.
The dead are waiting in their graves, reserved for the first or second resurrection.
[h=2]Sin results in death. Not immortality.[/h]"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6:23.
"Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." James 1:15.
"God ... gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.
[h=2]What will happen to the wicked in hellfire?[/h]"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Rev 21:8.
The wicked die the second death in hellfire. If the wicked lived forever being tortured in hell, they would be immortal. But this is impossible, because the Bible says God "only hath immortality." 1 Tim 6:16. When Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden of Eden, an angel was posted to guard the tree of life so that sinners would not eat of the tree and "live for ever." Gen 3:22-24. The teaching that sinners are immortal in hell originated with Satan and is completely untrue. God prevented this when sin entered this earth by guarding the tree of life.
"The wicked is reserved to the day of destruction." "Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb." Job 21:30,32.
The dead are waiting in their graves, reserved for the first or second resurrection.
[h=2]Sin results in death. Not immortality.[/h]"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6:23.
"Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." James 1:15.
"God ... gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.
[h=2]What will happen to the wicked in hellfire?[/h]"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Rev 21:8.
The wicked die the second death in hellfire. If the wicked lived forever being tortured in hell, they would be immortal. But this is impossible, because the Bible says God "only hath immortality." 1 Tim 6:16. When Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden of Eden, an angel was posted to guard the tree of life so that sinners would not eat of the tree and "live for ever." Gen 3:22-24. The teaching that sinners are immortal in hell originated with Satan and is completely untrue. God prevented this when sin entered this earth by guarding the tree of life.
Revelations 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
The rest of the dead
Hello TMS,
That is not a true statement. The word "anastasis" translated "resurrection" is defined as "to stand up again bodily." Jesus resurrecting in the same body that he was crucified in, albeit glorified, is a good example of this.
According to 2 Cor.5:6 and Phil.1:23, for the believer at the time of death, the spirit/soul departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, while it is the body that is referred to as sleeping in the dust of the earth.
At the resurrection when the Lord descends, He will bring with him all of the spirits who will have died in him and they will be reunited with their immortal and glorified resurrected bodies. Those believers who are alive at the time when the resurrection takes place will simply be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies right where they are and will be caught up with those who will have just previously resurrected with the whole group being taken back to the Father's house in fulfillment of John 14:1-3 and 1 Thes.4:13-17.
That is not a true statement. The word "anastasis" translated "resurrection" is defined as "to stand up again bodily." Jesus resurrecting in the same body that he was crucified in, albeit glorified, is a good example of this.
According to 2 Cor.5:6 and Phil.1:23, for the believer at the time of death, the spirit/soul departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, while it is the body that is referred to as sleeping in the dust of the earth.
At the resurrection when the Lord descends, He will bring with him all of the spirits who will have died in him and they will be reunited with their immortal and glorified resurrected bodies. Those believers who are alive at the time when the resurrection takes place will simply be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies right where they are and will be caught up with those who will have just previously resurrected with the whole group being taken back to the Father's house in fulfillment of John 14:1-3 and 1 Thes.4:13-17.
No, dead is not dead! Death is a state of conscious existence. Death is defined as separation from the glory of God and eternal punishment. Death is not defined as annihilation or extinction. We have many scriptures that demonstrate conscious awareness of the spirit/soul after to death, the rich man and Lazarus being one of them. Two men died, their bodies buried, and their spirits conscious and aware somewhere else.
The thief on the cross said "Lord, remember me when you come into your glory." And Jesus said, "truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise." How could Jesus and the thief be in paradise that very day when they both died on the cross? Because at the time of death their spirits departed and went somewhere else, conscious and completely aware.
The thief on the cross said "Lord, remember me when you come into your glory." And Jesus said, "truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise." How could Jesus and the thief be in paradise that very day when they both died on the cross? Because at the time of death their spirits departed and went somewhere else, conscious and completely aware.
What I mean is that 'dead to us is dead....if it was a state of concious existence we would be burying our dead ALIVE ! of course we are not dead to GOD because He can bring us back from our first death. It is only in our second death when we 'perish completely in the lake of fire...become ASH Mal 4v3.
Jesus said of Lazarus 'he sleeps'.......one is not concious in that state.
Jesus said of Lazarus 'he sleeps'.......one is not concious in that state.
You don't quote any Scriptures for your erroneous assertion that Jesus went to Hades, but I'll give this a try, anyway! Because your whole foundation is wrong!
"But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ's gift.8 Therefore it says,“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”
9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)" Eph. 4:7-10 ESV
This passage does NOT refer to "descending to Hades!" Rather, in the Greek, it clearly states Jesus descended to γῆς or ges, the earth. This was at his incarnation, or perhaps the tomb or grave of Joseph of Arimethea's after the crucifixion. The prisoners or captives He took are not OT believers confined to Paradise, but those Jesus defeated by His death and resurrection.
The Apostles Creed states that Jesus "descended into hell." However, please remember that is not Scripture, and was written nearly 400 years after Jesus died. I cannot agree that God needed to go to hell. Jesus descended to earth, to live a perfect life, and die on the cross for our sins. He ransomed us through his death, not his birth.
"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time" 1 Tim. 2:6-7
Further, if you want to be specific about Jesus being a ransom, he speaks about it in Matthew 20, where he is talking about being a servant. A baby cannot be a servant, only an adult. Therefore, his birth was not the ransom, but in fact, his death.
"even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Matt. 20:28
But, if this does not convince you, you need to read Hebrews. Hebrews is all about who Jesus is, what he came to do, and how he did it. He ransomed us by his death on the cross. He proved it by his resurrection.
"But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come,[e]then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption." Hebrews 9:11-12
"For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own,26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him." Hebrews 9:24-28
It was his blood which completed the entire OT sacrificial system, which is also how he ransomed us. His birth was miraculous, but his death was the fulfillment of all of Scripture. I would urge you to read the Bible, and especially the entire book of Hebrews, right now. Then, you will not come up with these half-baked, theologically incorrect ideas.
"But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ's gift.8 Therefore it says,“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”
9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)" Eph. 4:7-10 ESV
This passage does NOT refer to "descending to Hades!" Rather, in the Greek, it clearly states Jesus descended to γῆς or ges, the earth. This was at his incarnation, or perhaps the tomb or grave of Joseph of Arimethea's after the crucifixion. The prisoners or captives He took are not OT believers confined to Paradise, but those Jesus defeated by His death and resurrection.
The Apostles Creed states that Jesus "descended into hell." However, please remember that is not Scripture, and was written nearly 400 years after Jesus died. I cannot agree that God needed to go to hell. Jesus descended to earth, to live a perfect life, and die on the cross for our sins. He ransomed us through his death, not his birth.
"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time" 1 Tim. 2:6-7
Further, if you want to be specific about Jesus being a ransom, he speaks about it in Matthew 20, where he is talking about being a servant. A baby cannot be a servant, only an adult. Therefore, his birth was not the ransom, but in fact, his death.
"even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Matt. 20:28
But, if this does not convince you, you need to read Hebrews. Hebrews is all about who Jesus is, what he came to do, and how he did it. He ransomed us by his death on the cross. He proved it by his resurrection.
"But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come,[e]then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption." Hebrews 9:11-12
"For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own,26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him." Hebrews 9:24-28
It was his blood which completed the entire OT sacrificial system, which is also how he ransomed us. His birth was miraculous, but his death was the fulfillment of all of Scripture. I would urge you to read the Bible, and especially the entire book of Hebrews, right now. Then, you will not come up with these half-baked, theologically incorrect ideas.
I just checked this recently, because I was interested whether Christ paid for our sins only by physical death or also by bearing punishment in hell (second death).
So I checked the Apostles Creed (I remembered the word "hell" there) and it is not there...
Καὶ (εἰς) Ἰησοῦν Χριστòν, υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τòν μονογενῆ, τòν κύριον ἡμῶν...
σταυρωθέντα, θανόντα, καὶ ταφέντα,
κατελθόντα εἰς τὰ κατώτατα, τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ ἀναστάντα ἀπò τῶν νεκρῶν,
---
In Iesum Christum, Filium Eius unicum...
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus,
descendit ad infernos, tertia die resurrexit a mortuis
So I checked the Apostles Creed (I remembered the word "hell" there) and it is not there...
Καὶ (εἰς) Ἰησοῦν Χριστòν, υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τòν μονογενῆ, τòν κύριον ἡμῶν...
σταυρωθέντα, θανόντα, καὶ ταφέντα,
κατελθόντα εἰς τὰ κατώτατα, τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ ἀναστάντα ἀπò τῶν νεκρῶν,
---
In Iesum Christum, Filium Eius unicum...
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus,
descendit ad infernos, tertia die resurrexit a mortuis
We have people who have been and continue to commit suicide because they think that by doing so that they will just fade to black, becoming non existent. So, what kind of punishment would that be for them if God's punishment was the same as they what were trying to accomplish in the first place? Being burned up immediately as to become non existent would hardly be a punishment against a Holy, Righteous and Eternal God. And besides this, scripture does not support annihilation or extinction.
How do you explain the description in scripture which says that the smoke of their torment will ascend up forever and ever. And they will have no rest, day or night? One would have to be existing in order to experience the torment of flame day and night, which represents non stop punishment.
How do you explain the description in scripture which says that the smoke of their torment will ascend up forever and ever. And they will have no rest, day or night? One would have to be existing in order to experience the torment of flame day and night, which represents non stop punishment.
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I do not think that we fully understand what goes on. It does not say a person is immediately burnt up but could be understood to take some time beginning before he dies. there is a scripture saying that one can be saved just by a piece of an ear (assuming they hear the shepherd) before being totally consumed. And also in Psalm 37v20 we read that the wicked shall perish and into smoke shall they consume away; also Mal 4v3 the wicked shall be turned to ashes.
Now, interestingly we also read of a fire that does NOT burn up (as in the 'burning bush)which could also apply to people upon whom this fire is already kindled while still alive and gradually intensifying until death UNLESS they REPENT and turn fully to God in love and obedience.
So you see we may not even be talking of a real real fire/inferno as we imagine. This torment we are said to be experiencing may well happen IN THIS LIFE while separated from God and in the hands of the devil through DISobedience.
Now, interestingly we also read of a fire that does NOT burn up (as in the 'burning bush)which could also apply to people upon whom this fire is already kindled while still alive and gradually intensifying until death UNLESS they REPENT and turn fully to God in love and obedience.
So you see we may not even be talking of a real real fire/inferno as we imagine. This torment we are said to be experiencing may well happen IN THIS LIFE while separated from God and in the hands of the devil through DISobedience.
Hello Angela53510, nice to meet you and thank you for clarifying the purpose of Jesus ministry while here on Terra Firma. There are times and places in our life where it may seem like we are living a hell on earth, I've been there and trying to forget.
I was trying to reconcile some of the ideas put forth here with the bible; and I was shaking my head saying, no,no,no, the bible does not teach that. So thank you for doing the work that I was unable to do. God bless!
I was trying to reconcile some of the ideas put forth here with the bible; and I was shaking my head saying, no,no,no, the bible does not teach that. So thank you for doing the work that I was unable to do. God bless!