How can you really really really know you are saved?

[TruthTalk]

The issue is assurance after you are saved and how can we be sure we are not under the illusion of a false assurance.

There are no illusions of a false assurance here;

1 John 5:12-13
"He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Jude 1:24 "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,

Romans 8:16 "The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

John 10:29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Ephesians 4:30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Romans 8:38-39:"For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Trust in Jesus; True Gospel True Assurance

 

[DJ2]

If the issue is assurance after you are saved; and then you create a conflict of; an illusion of false assurance post salvation; where and how does this conflict resolve itself; at The Cross of Jesus. So now if you say; well I want God to personally come down from heaven and reassure me that my salvation is true and sure, He will say DJ2 I've already done that. I would say your case of a false assurance is an illusion; and maybe you should pray dear God I believe please help my unbelief. And I might add, never, never, never, forget your first love, Jesus.

17) And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
18) Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.
19) If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
20) But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21) For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22) For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

True Gospel, True Assurance

First, I did not "create a conflict of; an illusion of false assurance". This false assurance is clearly mentioned in the Bible "Lord, Lord did we not". False assurance surrounds us daily, Mormons and JV just to name a few. Do you deny false assurance exist?

Nowhere in this thread have I or anyone else suggested God to come down personally and assure us. My goal is to find verses that explain the difference between true and false assurance, your 6 verses do not do this.

 

[TruthTalk]

First, I did not "create a conflict of; an illusion of false assurance". This false assurance is clearly mentioned in the Bible "Lord, Lord did we not". False assurance surrounds us daily, Mormons and JV just to name a few. Do you deny false assurance exist?

Nowhere in this thread have I or anyone else suggested God to come down personally and assure us. My goal is to find verses that explain the difference between true and false assurance, your 6 verses do not do this.

Okay, it just seems that you are not wiling to look at scripture that proves our assurance. And the people who said to Jesus ""Lord, Lord did we not" were not saved to begin with. If you cannot accept Gods word and Christ death on the cross for assurance then what is acceptable as proof. Have faith in Jesus who died for our sins, this is not an illusion. God bless you in your quest for assurance.

 

[TruthTalk]

First, I did not "create a conflict of; an illusion of false assurance". This false assurance is clearly mentioned in the Bible "Lord, Lord did we not". False assurance surrounds us daily, Mormons and JV just to name a few. Do you deny false assurance exist?

Nowhere in this thread have I or anyone else suggested God to come down personally and assure us. My goal is to find verses that explain the difference between true and false assurance, your 6 verses do not do this.

If your argument is that there is; "true assurance and there is false assurance" then follow the true assurance. If you see a counterfeit 100 dollar bill and a true 100 dollar bill, take the true money and forget about the fake 100 dollar bill; it is the same with different religions; study the true and you will see the false immediately. Your wanting to understand the false assurance is faulty reasoning when you have the real McCoy right in front of you. Don't study the false assurance study the true assurance.
God bless

 

[TruthTalk]

False assurance surrounds us daily, Mormons and JV just to name a few. Do you deny false assurance exist?

No I do not deny false assurance exists; If I want real ice cream, I will go to the store and by real ice cream and take it home and enjoy the experience; but if I say how do I know this is real ice cream, why would I purchase and eat imitation ice cream to prove the real is really real. Any fair minded person can see this is faulty reasoning; you will find the truth by pursuing the truth and committing yourself to this endeavor; not by trying to prove what something is false.
The Truth will set you free, God bless

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I do not believe the post applies for the following reasons:

1. The OP is about "how" we can know we are not among those deceiving ourselves in thinking we have assurance, not "who" or why we "should" have assurance. This is the recurring error of most replies. I am not asking if assurance exist, I am asking "how" do we discern between true and false assurance.

2. Basing your belief on your feelings of assurance is not a biblical answer. I am looking for verses on how we can know the difference between true assurance and false assurance, since both exist.

faith isnt just a feeling....
and can be defined by the bibles contents

so #2 doesnt apply to his statement

and #1 has been addressed already

 

[NoNameMcgee]

The decieved... The reprobate.... and the false believers
__________________
Titus Chapter 3


3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

_______________________

Romans 1:28-29

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers

___________________

Isaiah 29:13 - Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: (addressed what the heart should be page 1)

_______________
James 1:26 - If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion [is] vain. (missing fruits of the spirit)
_________________
2 Timothy Chapter 3


1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


___________________

everywhere i see the decieved or reprobate or false believers

i also see signs to show it


if you are vigilant you will see where you have been decieved either in the Word

or during fellowship

where does it say you can be decieved but not see it in your fruits?


this "false assurance" you speak of

will be visible in those who have it to those who know God

 

[dcontroversal]

The issue is assurance after you are saved and how can we be sure we are not under the illusion of a false assurance. I don't know how your response applies to the OP.

The assurance is found in simple belief.........FAITH......

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE

If you believe that GOD has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.

We read the word and we believe it and acknowledge said belief........Bro....be not removed from the simplicity that is found in Christ.....it is a simple thing to hear, believe and act upon that belief.

 

[stonesoffire]

I agree Dcon for faith will prove the existence of God and His faithfulness to us by answered prayer and standing on promises.

 

[Jackson123]

It is understandable that some people question whether he is save or not, even in the last judgement when Jesus say to the sheep welcome to the kingdom, because you feed me when I am hungered, the sheep, the chosen one surprise.

in the contrary the unsave, have a faith that they are save.

I do not know whether every unsave sure they are save, or some, the verse do not tell in detail, may be majority unsave convince they are save and majority save not sure, I do not know.

But that verses say unsave think save, save not sure they are save.

 

[TruthTalk]

Do you deny false assurance exist?

No I do not deny false assurance exist: To believe a lie is false assurance.
Here is an example of false assurance;

Genesis 3:3-5
3) "but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die. ”
4) “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman;
5) “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Point: There was a white pristine and beautiful tower that stretched high into the sky. At the top of this tower was a room and inside the room was a man sitting with a fishing pole, in front of a bath tub with no water. As I walked closer I inquired of the man, what are you doing; he said I am fishing, to which I said there is no water in there; and he said, I know; to which I said, but there is no fish in there either; and the man said, yes I know this is true also.
Attribute: Author Unknown

Why do we not see the lie but continue to fish; True Assurance is Jesus; death, burial, and resurrection; and His shed blood on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sin. I pray one day you will enjoy the assurance of salvation that you already have, God bless.

True Gospel and True Assurance that is trust worthy.

 

[TruthTalk]

Do you deny false assurance exist?

No I do not deny false assurance exist: To believe a lie is false assurance.
Here is an example of false assurance;

Genesis 3:3-5
3) "but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die. ”
4) “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman;
5) “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Point: There was a white pristine and beautiful tower that stretched high into the sky. At the top of this tower was a room and inside the room was a man sitting with a fishing pole, in front of a bath tub with no water. As I walked closer I inquired of the man, what are you doing; he said I am fishing, to which I said there is no water in there; and he said, I know; to which I said, but there is no fish in there either; and the man said, yes I know this is true also.
Attribute: Author Unknown

Why do we not see the truth but continue to fish; True Assurance is Jesus; death, burial, and resurrection; and His shed blood on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sin. I pray one day you will enjoy the assurance of salvation that you already have, God bless.

True Gospel and True Assurance that is trust worthy.

Repost/Edit: at: 3:50pm​

 

[Jackson123]

No I do not deny false assurance exist: To believe a lie is false assurance.
Here is an example of false assurance;

Genesis 3:3-5
3) "but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die. ”
4) “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman;
5) “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Point: There was a white pristine and beautiful tower that stretched high into the sky. At the top of this tower was a room and inside the room was a man sitting with a fishing pole, in front of a bath tub with no water. As I walked closer I inquired of the man, what are you doing; he said I am fishing, to which I said there is no water in there; and he said, I know; to which I said, but there is no fish in there either; and the man said, yes I know this is true also.
Attribute: Author Unknown

Why do we not see the truth but continue to fish; True Assurance is Jesus; death, burial, and resurrection; and His shed blood on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sin. I pray one day you will enjoy the assurance of salvation that you already have, God bless.

True Gospel and True Assurance that is trust worthy.

Repost/Edit: at: 3:50pm​

matt 7 and matt 25 tell a Lot, not few but a Lot of victim false assurance. I remember my ex junior high classmate tell the story, his friend attend a Revival meeting there is an altar call than a Lot of people come, they give them sort and simple bible study, than they ask you to repeat simple pray, salvation pray, than they teach, salvation by faith not work, the teacher say, now you are save, than baptized to make the church more member, one of them is my junior high classmate friend next day, back to the world, he went to prostitute Remember not by work. If we not explain what not by work mean, the common mistake is, it doesn't matter what you do, AS long AS you have faith in Jesus you save, minim reward.

I think this is false assurance.

Some time muslim think we are foolish, because heard the salvation not by work.

A muslim ask me question, what happen If I Convert to Christian and rob the bank?

i answered: you go to jail

he Said: Jesus pay my sin why I need to go to jail?

this is what happen If we not explain in detail about salvation not by work, they try to prove this doctrine Lie.

If you rob the bank and not go to jail, because Jesus pay our sin, than you doctrine is right, If you go to jail, tha prove Jesus not pay your sin

 

[DJ2]

faith isnt just a feeling....
and can be defined by the bibles contents

so #2 doesnt apply to his statement

and #1 has been addressed already

Both 1 and 2 certainly do apply.

On the issue of #1 maverich simply is stating his own personal reasons why he thinks he is assured of salvation. He gives no bible verses, just his experiences during the last 20 years. He speaks of his feelings about what he believes has changed his life around. Again, no scriptures just his thoughts and feelings hence #2 applies. Reread both his posts no. 332 & 335.

Once more, I believe the Bible speaks of Christians having assurance, I know the verses. But false assurance does exist and as such the ability to proclaim 100% assurance does not seem possible. It appears that the assurance the Bible speaks of is more of a hope then a impossible to be wrong notion of what is to be.

If the deceived are unaware of their deception, "how" can we honestly be sure we are not the ones being deceived.

Even those deceived will quote the same verses and use the same reasoning to claim the other person is the one deceived.

 

[heartofdavid]

Hi heart of david..

This adoption is not quite like the adoptions that we are familiar with.

If I remember correctly, it is out of Roman court adoptions. I don't think it was the greek. What happens is there are two documents presented to the court. One is the name, the relatives, the whole of the persons identity is on the document. The second is the new identity, the name change, the adoptive parents, and the relatives.

The first is completely wiped out. The new identity is all that the adopted has.

This is our identity...in Christ. A new creation man/woman. Never lived before the new birth. Brand new man, and our relatives are all who are in Him. And our Father is God, our brother is Jesus, and our mother would be Holy Spirit for wisdom is seen as a woman.

Nicely put.

we are family.

Just so beautiful. Seems almost surreal.

That is why I can not connect to a concept that a person could be truly born again,adopted,placed,reborn,recreated,or however one wants to put it,and not know if they are saved.

 

[TruthTalk]

matt 7 and matt 25 tell a Lot, not few but a Lot of victim false assurance. I remember my ex junior high classmate tell the story, his friend attend a Revival meeting there is an altar call than a Lot of people come, they give them sort and simple bible study, than they ask you to repeat simple pray, salvation pray, than they teach, salvation by faith not work, the teacher say, now you are save, than baptized to make the church more member, one of them is my junior high classmate friend next day, back to the world, he went to prostitute Remember not by work. If we not explain what not by work mean, the common mistake is, it doesn't matter what you do, AS long AS you have faith in Jesus you save, minim reward.

I think this is false assurance.

Some time muslim think we are foolish, because heard the salvation not by work.

A muslim ask me question, what happen If I Convert to Christian and rob the bank?

i answered: you go to jail

he Said: Jesus pay my sin why I need to go to jail?

this is what happen If we not explain in detail about salvation not by work, they try to prove this doctrine Lie.

If you rob the bank and not go to jail, because Jesus pay our sin, than you doctrine is right, If you go to jail, tha prove Jesus not pay your sin

How true Jackson123, If you walk the isle and confess Jesus and get baptized; and then return to your old sinful habits; you have not been saved at all but only gotten wet. It is also true that God can continue to call your friends back to Him so never give up on your friends. Sin is a terrible task master and only Jesus can set you free, preach the truth!

No matter what the sin is like rob a bank or stealing; there is always the consequence to pay for. If I steal my moms fresh backed cookies and share them with my friends without her permission; boy am I in big trouble when I get home.

And God bless you for peaching the Gospel to our Muslim friends, they need to hear Gospel too.

God bless

 

[lil_girl]

then if you want something like a freakin tattoo on your darn forehead so that you can rest assured of something then don't be saved and wait for your other saviour the antichrist hhheee will love to put a freakin' stamp on your damn forehead making sure you belong to something.





now if you really want to know,,,after we receive jesus in our heart, we wait, we take a loooonnggg nap and wait for the second coming of Christ. The Real Christ. in other words we are not doing anything but waiting for our Saviour. The second coming of Christ. Everytime i go to sleep my dreams and sleeps are directed to that: The second coming of Christ, if he did not come today he might come tonight in the middle of the night or tommorow. Till then. And the chips are available too although not sure if thosee are permanent.

 

[maverich]

Dj2
I suggest that if you think you may be decieved, then you already are
The 12 had no word or scripture to back up their belief in Jesus. They only had the word of Jesus. If Jesus speaks to you, you will know it.


If your searching for a scripture you are lost and confused,

Noah built a boat, Hosea married a prostitute, Moses saved israel, Joshua destroyed jericho with nary a word. To many think Jesus is mute. He's not!! He is alive and well. Jesus cannot be contained in a book, and anyone that limits him to a book, Is a heretic

My salvation is not based on a feeling, my salvation is based on the sub-stratum of my heart, my Holy of Holies, Where Jesus and I commune on a daily basis. My walk in this world is a reflection of his world. I am sorry that you dont have a personal relationship with Jesus. remember there are 2 types of christian

There those who are christian, and there are those who have been born again

 

[DJ2]

No I do not deny false assurance exist: To believe a lie is false assurance.
Here is an example of false assurance;

Genesis 3:3-5
3) "but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die. ”
4) “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman;
5) “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Point: There was a white pristine and beautiful tower that stretched high into the sky. At the top of this tower was a room and inside the room was a man sitting with a fishing pole, in front of a bath tub with no water. As I walked closer I inquired of the man, what are you doing; he said I am fishing, to which I said there is no water in there; and he said, I know; to which I said, but there is no fish in there either; and the man said, yes I know this is true also.
Attribute: Author Unknown

Why do we not see the truth but continue to fish; True Assurance is Jesus; death, burial, and resurrection; and His shed blood on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sin. I pray one day you will enjoy the assurance of salvation that you already have, God bless.

True Gospel and True Assurance that is trust worthy.

Repost/Edit: at: 3:50pm​

If false assurance does exist then the ability to proclaim 100% assurance does not seem possible. It appears that the assurance the Bible speaks of is more of a hope than a impossible to be wrong notion of what is to be.

If the deceived are unaware of their deception, "how" can we honestly be sure we are not the ones being deceived.

Even those deceived will quote the same verses and use the same reasoning to claim the other person is the one deceived.

On your use of the bathtub story, this is the famous illustration by Franz Kafka. I know its principles well and you are misusing its purpose. The story was about how higher education was turning a blind eye to the destruction of Europe after World War I and continued to teach the same lies that led to its destruction. The empty bathtub was their lack of new ideas to both heal the nations and stop the cycle of war.

So if the moral of your story is I need to stop fishing for answers in the empty "once saved always saved" bathtub, I agree.

 

[stonesoffire]

Nicely put.

we are family.

Just so beautiful. Seems almost surreal.

That is why I can not connect to a concept that a person could be truly born again,adopted,placed,reborn,recreated,or however one wants to put it,and not know if they are saved.

Not sure but but I think it has to do with a poor self image, unlovable. Lies that have been said to children go down deep. And we don't begin to renew our minds right away.

I also believe God makes these His special project.