The Proverbs, Ecclesiasties, and the illusion of your Free Will

[Nehemiah6]

Paul never felt compelled by Christ? Or confronted daily or in 2 Corinthians?

For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died;[SUP]15 [/SUP]and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

Now you are on to a completely different issue, which is the surrendered will of the Christian to God and to Christ. When a sinner receives Christ as Lord and Savior, he surrenders his will. This is clearly illustrated by Paul himself on the road to Damascus where the first words out of his mouth were "LORD, what wilt thou have me to do?"

BTW, going back to the Christian, we are told that it is God which worketh in us both TO WILL and to do of His good pleasure. So the spiritual Christian -- walking in the Spirit -- has already handed over his will to God the Holy Spirit.

So yes, the love of Christ does indeed constrain us (or control us) because He loved us first. This has absolutely no bearing on the subject, which is the free will of mankind in general and God as Sovereign over the universe.

 

[kaijo]

If we have free will, and it is choice, then will yourself to go to the moon or the Mariana Trench. (Deepest part of the ocean.) Or, if neither of those does it for you, think of a place you'd love to go, and then will yourself to go there.

Will was just limited, wasn't it? I do believe in will, however will is limited to our nature. Our nature does not allow us to fly by flapping our arms, whisk ourselves off to walk around the moon, swim to the lowest part of the ocean, or not-sin. And, in the last case, our nature controls us to sin.

Well...if u intend to use the term Will as a verb... then yea, we would be talking "fairy tale" stuff.

But God uses the term Will as a noun, which is what i am also referring to ^^

 

[kaijo]

This is a non-issue for Christians since genuine Christians receive Christ as both Lord and Savior. Lord means "Master" and much more.

Yes i can agree with that.

I just had to say it ... for the guy i was replying to. In hopes that it might "trigger" something.

Only coz "I've" been there before ^^

 

[Dreamstate]

If I didn't have the power to choose happily, I wouldn't be alive. Yes, me happily choosing to post this is just an illusion, it isn't really happening.

 

[Dreamstate]

The closest I can come to agreeing is that God has control of what people see spiritually, He lets many people believe things which actually enslave them but it's their choice.

 

[MarcR]

I believe that God created mankind because he wanted a creature that was able to love Him.

We are created in the image of God; but that image has nothing to do with physical resemblance.

The qualities or features we share with God are intellect will and emotion.

The price God paid for a creature that was able to love Him was that He got a creature that was able not to love Him.

The only reason God allowed sin to enter His creation is that Love can not exist without Will. Love cannot be programmed.

God is indeed sovereign to the extent that He retains the power to revoke free will; but God elects not to exercise that power because doing so would also revoke our ability to love.

 

[kaijo]

I believe that God created mankind because he wanted a creature that was able to love Him.

Yep thats right =)

I remember somewhere in there that it says something like... Everything in the invisible, has been revealed in the visible... and nothing has been hidden from us.

And He shows us the revealing of what you mention...when He created Adam. Coz then He created the animals next, male and female....and brought them to Adam to name them, and to be a keeper over them. And it was good. But as good as it was... and as obedient as the animals were to Adam... Adam still felt alone , coz there was still none like him on the earth. Yet the animals all dwelt together.... with companions... and could "fellowship" with eachother. But none of the animals had the ability/intellect to Truly fellowship with Adam.

This, to me... in the invisible... represents Gods level of fellowship with His angels, and the other creatures that He created in the invisible. It was good... but just not fulfilling enough for Him.

So then... for Adam.... God created Eve out of Adams own body ...so that Adam could finally experience a fulfilling fellowship/companionship ...with someone of the the same level of emotions/ability/intellect as himself.

In the invisible...this represents why God created man... out of His own Breath... to Finally experience a fulfilling relationship with a being.... capable of the same emotions/potential ability/intellect as Himself. ^^