Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?
- Thread starter Joseph888
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
What make you think that this partial passage has any real direct application to the subject of this thread?
Some in Thyatira were professing that which they did not possess.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It's ok, you don't see, I'll leave it here. It's a good comparison to 2 Corinthians 5: 10.
I think that there is some confusion here regarding the meaning of convict.
1 usage means to find guilty. I agree that is not applicable to believers.
the other usage means to convince or persuade. from this usage we get the word convictions.
Our conscience, as believers, does indeed trouble us when we are out of God's will. If it does not; then you should reexamine your walk with the Lord.
GOD disciplines HIS CHILDREN...
So that our faith, more precious than gold (though refined in the fire) will prove genuine...
It will be by faith and we will walk and live by that faith...directed in and on CHRIST JESUS alone.
And yet, in the last days, many will go out...and fall away from following HIM and take matters into their own hands, and avenge what is not in their right to do...
And in doing so, they will commit the sin which is unto death...misrepresenting the SPIRIT of GOD...
Not by power or by might, sayeth the LORD.
But by MY SPIRIT...
Whether you go left or right, there will be a voice saying...this is the way, walk in it.
Listen to HIM...
So that our faith, more precious than gold (though refined in the fire) will prove genuine...
It will be by faith and we will walk and live by that faith...directed in and on CHRIST JESUS alone.
And yet, in the last days, many will go out...and fall away from following HIM and take matters into their own hands, and avenge what is not in their right to do...
And in doing so, they will commit the sin which is unto death...misrepresenting the SPIRIT of GOD...
Not by power or by might, sayeth the LORD.
But by MY SPIRIT...
Whether you go left or right, there will be a voice saying...this is the way, walk in it.
Listen to HIM...
I agree 100%
Here is what I do when I sin.
I love to kneel quickly and tell my Father how I trust in Him. How what I did was wrong.
Sometimes I use the word sin and sometimes I don't. I think that is irrelevant. I run to my Father and tell Him how that His Son is my Lord and is my life and my righteousness - that Jesus' Blood has secured my redemption and forgiveness of sins. I confess what God says about me. I tell Him I love Him and trust in Him.
I have not asked for forgiveness "in order to be forgiven or to supposedly restore fellowship" for quite some time ( years ) now because I believe in what Christ has already done for me on the cross and resurrection....but I always talk with my Lord about what I do or don't do.
You know - He always loves on me and tells me He loves me and that He is my life and strength. Sometimes I have felt a warm liquid like feeling of pure love fall on me and I just sit there in His presence and weep. I can't move a muscle. He is so mighty in power yet His love and total acceptance is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence.
To me - all sin is relational. All sin is a failure to see the life of Christ in me. I am ignorant of His life in me. To me - most outward sin is just a "fruit" of the real sin.
For example - If I steal something - that is a sin but the real sin behind that is the failure to recognize my Father will take care of me. I am operating in the flesh. I want to take things into my own hand and "do" things.
The other part is when you see how horrid it really is when we mess up....sin....transgress.... whatever term you want to use.
..what I see is my unbelief in the goodness and love of my Father and Lord Jesus for me. That is the horrid part because I know that is not Their character nor is it really my true nature now and what He has made me in Christ.
If our heart condemns us - God is greater than our heart and knows all things. This is a great truth to have in our minds when the time comes. Knowing this truth makes us run to the Father and to our Lord.
I see both sides of the coin and have not decided fully which way I stand to be honest......I can see that ALL my sin has been covered and paid for in Christ while recognizing that particular events recorded like peter denying the Lord 3 times resulted with him weeping when he went out and with no record of his verbal repentance for denying the Lord....and yet he said I am a sinful man and bailed off into the sea....I see Paul write of being the chief sinner among men, but do not recall him repenting of any particular sin even when meeting the Lord on the road to Damascus. And then I think of the other recorded events such as Daniel confessing his sins in prayer or John saying he is faithful and just to forgive us when we confess our sins when we sin.......there seems to be balance that that alludes the extreme stance concerning both sides of this coin.....
If you can place the passage in context feel at liberty to demonstrate your knowledge.lol Go get yourself a Bible and learn to read in context
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I can understand what you are saying. Perhaps it is in the understanding of the Old Covenant way of things and the New Covenant way of things in Christ after the cross and resurrection that can help to cement some things in our minds?
My own personal belief is that all believers that are in fact in Christ and Christ is in them - that they are now "saints" and not sinners. Paul calls us believers as "saints" around 68 times in his letters. I see "sinners" as being a description of their "identity" and not in an action per se which I believe that Paul was referring to his former days as a sinner. He was the worst one he said because he persecuted the church.
Thank God for His grace towards all of us!
Did not Paul use the present tense when describing his state as the number one chief sinner among men?
Yes....he sure did. I believe that he was referring to his time as being a "sinner" as an "identity" when he made that statement.
I look at his use of the present tense in that particular verse in this light below - as in him stating about himself being a sinner - even though he said he was "blameless" as to the law of Moses. Some may see it differently.
"When it comes to being a sinner - I am the chief of sinners." - because I was a blasphemer, and a persecutor and injurious. 1 Tim. 1:13
1 Timothy 1:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Paul then got born-again and is now a saint as an identity. ( That's the way I view it anyway. )
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
The word "confess" is the Greek word homologōmen (from homologeó) and it means to agree; to profess (confess) because in full agreement; to align with; to speak the same thing.
http://biblehub.com/greek/3670.htm
The word "sins" is the Greek word hamartias (from hamartia which is derived from a "not" and meros "a part, share of") — properly, no-share ("no part of"); loss (forfeiture) because not hitting the target; sin (missing the mark).
http://biblehub.com/greek/266.htm
When we "confess" our sins to Father, we go to Him and agree with Him that we have missed the mark. We go to Him and tell Him we agree we have fallen short.
By the way, I think God knew we would not be perfect and has provided the means for us to come to Him so that He could mend our hearts and restore the relationship. He never wants us to run from Him and stumble around without Him.
I agree with most of what you have said - except for the 1 John 1:9 thing.
I don't believe that 1 John 1:9 is talking about the believer as seen in the context of this verse.
Here is a view of 1 John chapter 1 that some have. Those not born-again are still in the flesh and married to the works of the flesh. Believers are not in the flesh but in the spirit.
If we pay attention to the ..we and our and the you in 1 John chapter 1 - these things become clearer.
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we (believers - namely John and the other apostles ) have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of Life"
(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion and to also teach the believers that would listen to this letter. All scripture is profitable for us all.
"We ( believers - like John himself ) proclaim to you(unbelievers - gnostics )what we have seen and heard, so that you (unbelievers - gnostics ) also may have fellowship with us ( believers ). And our (believers)fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).
This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics ( unbelievers ) to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ.
Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ. ( just like we do now in all churches....there are both types of people )
"This is the message we ( believers ) have heard from Him and declare to you ( unbelievers ): God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).
John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost). Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).
"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).
In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics ( not true believers ) claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.
"If we ( believers ) walk in the light, as He is in the light, we ( believers ) have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us ( believers ) from all sin" (verse 7).
In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin.
Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins. We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.
But we need to acknowledge that we do have sin in order to receive the forgiveness of the Savior.
"If we( John putting all of us in the same boat before coming to Christ ) claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (verse 8).
John is now addressing the belief the Gnostics had regarding sin because they didn't believe it was real and therefore believed they had no sin. The "we" John is using here refers to all people before coming to Christ including all believers too which "we" had to acknowledge at some point in our lives.
He is referring specifically to the Gnostics, who believed they were without sin. Because they claimed to be without sin, then they were only deceiving themselves and the truth (Jesus) was not in them.
However, verse 9 says that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
In other words, if the Gnostics and all people in general ( if we confess ) were to confess they had sins, then God, Who is faithful and righteous, would forgive and cleanse them from their unrighteousness.
In the Greek language, the words "forgive" and "cleanse" mean past actions that have results today and will continue to have results in the future.
Also, the word "all" used in these verses means all. It doesn't mean that we are cleansed of our past sins and our past unrighteousness, it means we were cleansed of all our unrighteousness.
And if God cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then we are cleansed forever! We have become the righteousness of God in Christ now.
"If we claim we ( all of us were in this boat at one time ) have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives" (verse 10).
Basically this verse is a repeat of verse 8. To put it simply, it means that the Gnostics can't claim to be without sin and yet be saved. John is saying that because the Gnostics claimed they had no sin, they were actually calling God a liar and therefore didn't know the truth.
The purpose of the first chapter of 1 John was to compare the truth of God to the error of gnosticism. John was addressing the Gnostics, who were deceived by their own teaching. He wanted the Gnostics to understand that what they believed conflicted with what God said. He was not, however, addressing believers.
However we can all learn from all scriptures including 1 John 1 - I especially love the truth of verse 7 - the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin because we are in Him.
Last edited: