Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

stonesoffire · Sep 4, 2017

I think I see what might be a reason for differences.

Ive said before that my husband is evangelistic. I am more teacher. When we first were together and out ministering, he would quickly get people to make a decision, and I tried by teaching truth that belongs to the believers.

You can guess who failed. So I learned to be quiet and let him speak.

I think we have an an assortment of the 5 fold ministry in our midst here, and our disagreements may be stemming from this.

However, when it comes to works versus grace....That's something we should all be in agreement about.

Just don't let your pet talents get in the way of unity.

And I might be wrong too. Just a thought.

Grace777x70 · Sep 4, 2017

I highly doubt that the forgiveness of sins is against Christian beliefs in the body of Christ but I have said what I and others believe about the forgiveness of sins that is in Christ's work.

I'm not getting into a back and forth with people despite the "baiting" as this is what the Mods are wanting us to refrain from.

I'll leave it all in the hands of the Lord. he will be faithful to all of us to reveal Christ and His work!

I always ask myself 3 questions about truth or a teaching.

1) Does it make Jesus bigger in your heart when you see His work and majesty? ( Or does it bring fear and insecurity because you are not "doing" enough to stay saved? )

2) Does it make you depend on Jesus and His finished work? ( or does it depend on what you do and depend on yourself?)

3) Does it make you fall deeply in love with your Lord, our Father and with all people? (Or does it make you view others as accursed, hated by God...etc - even though He loves them so much He sent His Son to die for them )

If I can answer these questions in the affirmative - then it is the good news of the grace of Christ.

We can view scriptures through the lens of the Old Covenant and then try to mix in a little of the New Covenant and we end up in mess of "working to maintain" our own righteousness for going to heaven.

When ever we don't factor in the finished work of Christ nor the real purpose for Jesus dying for us - the fact that God loves us dearly and He is not looking for ways to keep people from Him - we will end up in error as we are mixing up the covenants.

Bearing fruit stems from the life of Christ in us. He is the Vine we are the branches. The branch does not produce it's own fruit. It bears the life of the Vine.

The fruit of the Spirit being produced is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, meekness, goodness, faith and self-control. Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit of God living in us - not a product of self-effort in the flesh. There are counterfeits of all these fruit that the flesh can try to generate but they are not from God.

There is good fruit and bad fruit of the flesh - but it is still flesh. Outwardly these are sometimes hard to discern. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil had both types of fruit on it. Don't eat from that tree.

Eat from the tree of life - Christ = who is inside of us wanting to bear His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world as well as to our fellow brethren. We are one with Him in the spirit.

Let's keep beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord and the Holy Spirit will transforms us outwardly to reflect our true nature in our new creations in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

7seasrekeyed · Sep 4, 2017

walking in the light is speaking of fellowship

we cannot walk in the light UNLESS we believe in Christ's accomplishments on the cross: forgiveness of sin, new life, restored relationship with our Creator, and so on

this is not a pride issue. if you actually ARE walking in the light, IN relationship, then you have put aside any issues of pride or are being dealt with, by the Spirit of God, TO put them aside

the following speaks of relationship. in this relationship you do not hide from God and you get your act together or you are not walking with Him even if you think you are

who does Christ know? those who do the will of the Father even as He did. those who do not love their lives unto death

but it seems some want to throw that away and just sit with a big package of grace on their laps. false grace

grace is active. it is ongoing and we partake of it by MOVING FORWARD

walking in the light is not about perfection

“This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.”
1 John 1:5-7

Grace777x70 · Sep 4, 2017

stonesoffire said:

I agree. We are passionate about our particular calling and "part" in the body of Christ.

The Apostle wants to preach the foundational truths of Christ Himself and His work on the cross and resurrection.

The Prophets want people to know the heart of the father and our Lord and to "see" with Their eyes and heart towards others.

The Evangelist can't see why people are sitting and listening to "teaching" when there is a world out there that needs to know about Christ.

The Teacher sees the need for the Christian to grow in the grace and knowledge of what Christ has already done for us.

The Pastor is thinking of how he is going to care for these precious ones that have been beat up by life and in some cases religion.

It is not wise to try to bring others into our own unique calling in the body of Christ and to try to "force" them to be doing the same thing.

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

I noticed that both "groups" were "building the house".

stonesoffire · Sep 4, 2017

Great post Grace 7!

7seasrekeyed · Sep 4, 2017

Here is something very helpful for those who have difficulty understanding what TRUE walking in the light is. It is not about perfection as some would have you believe or an accomplished place that you find yourself in

as with ALL the covenants in the Bible we have our part in the covenant...God extends the covenant and if we accept, it is half the writ

In the past, whenever I would come across this verse, the quiet, unexamined assumption of my heart was that “walking in the light” had something to do with behaving well. Correspondingly, walking in darkness had something to do with behaving badly.
But that’s not it at all.
Walking in the light has nothing to do with perfect behavior and everything to do with being known. Walking in the light means that we are willing to be known for who we really are (warts, sin, and all). It doesn’t mean we have perfected morality, just that we have stopped hiding.
Walking in darkness means we are still hiding, pretending, putting on airs, attempting to be seen in a certain way, presenting an image that doesn’t reflect the inner reality of our hearts. Walking in darkness is the result of submitting to shame. It means we think we cannot afford to be known for who we really are, because we fear rejection, punishment, abandonment. Appearance is everything for those walking in darkness.
Darkness helps keep reality hidden. And we keep reality hidden because we fear that we need to perform well to be accepted. (Isn’t this the message many of us grew up with?) So we try to appear better than we actually are in an attempt to find acceptance and value from God and other people. Ironically, it never works, because the only way to actually walk with God is to walk with him in the light.

The good news is that we actually can be known for who we really are, because our acceptance is not based on our performance, it’s based on God’s love for us. Walking in the light isn’t something you have to “work up” to, because it isn’t about becoming awesome at life, it’s simply about letting reality be known. Coming into the light, willing to be seen, willing to be known. Walking in the light means actuality over appearance.

This terrifies most people, but it’s the only way we ever really find life. The cool thing is that we can actually start walking in the light today. It simply means giving up the games we play, letting down our defenses and pretenses and “get real” with God and others. As soon as we are willing to be known for who we really are, God’s healing work begins.

We find that the light we are walking in isn’t harsh, it doesn’t shame us, doesn’t make us sweat. Instead it is a healing light that allows us to rest in the love of God. The beautiful promise for those who walk in the light is that we have actual fellowship with one another, which means we really know other people, and they really know us.

The second part of the promise is that the blood of Jesus purifies us from all sin. So we actually can afford to come into the light, stay there, and walk in the light, because when we notice sin (because it’s obvious in the light!), we don’t hide it or pretend it isn’t there, we simply give it to Jesus, and his blood purifies us from it, healing us as we walk with others in the light of his presence.

How can you put this into practice? Think about ways you hide from God and others. How can you take a step “into the light” today, sharing more vulnerably with others?

ARTICLE SOURCE

please note that Ben believes in making disciples...NOT revivalists

FlSnookman7 · Sep 4, 2017

7seasrekeyed said:

I am often baffled how 2 people can read the same thing and get something completely different from it. I see the last sentence saying "the blood of Jesus, His Son,purifies us from ALL sin". It doesn't say past sin, it says all sin. If we are purified from all sin is that not perfection?

I have never nor will I ever say "go ahead and sin we are covered by grace" nor have I ever seen anyone else here say that. What I do know is that the where sin abounds grace abounds more (Rom 5:20). This does NOT mean we are to continue in sin, in fact paul says how can we who are DEAD to sin continue in it? I think the misunderstanding occurs because we as humans find it so hard to believe that once saved we are in fact a new creation and it is FROM that that our good works will flow not the other way around.

Again, I want to be clear, SIN IS BAD, DO NOT DO IT! I also want to be clear that whether we agree or disagree I know for sure that I need to love you as Jesus loves me and that I can only accomplish that through the power of God. If at any time I seem mean or attacking please know that is not my intent and let me know. Thank you.

Meggido · Sep 4, 2017

FlSnookman7 said:

I am often baffled how 2 people can read the same thing and get something completely different from it. I see the last sentence saying "the blood of Jesus, His Son,purifies us from ALL sin". It doesn't say past sin, it says all sin. If we are purified from all sin is that not perfection?

I have never nor will I ever say "go ahead and sin we are covered by grace" nor have I ever seen anyone else here say that. What I do know is that the where sin abounds grace abounds more (Rom 5:20). This does NOT mean we are to continue in sin, in fact paul says how can we who are DEAD to sin continue in it? I think the misunderstanding occurs because we as humans find it so hard to believe that once saved we are in fact a new creation and it is FROM that that our good works will flow not the other way around.

Again, I want to be clear, SIN IS BAD, DO NOT DO IT! I also want to be clear that whether we agree or disagree I know for sure that I need to love you as Jesus loves me and that I can only accomplish that through the power of God. If at any time I seem mean or attacking please know that is not my intent and let me know. Thank you.

I have said from my beginning here that after conversion we are not sinners saved by grace, but sin-forgiven saints that will still sin..the terms sinner no longer applies.....

7seasrekeyed · Sep 4, 2017

FlSnookman7 said:

well, frankly I am equally baffled as to how someone interprets all sin as FUTURE sin

if you are not yet born and Jesus tarries (as they say in some circles) then your future sin is forgiven if you accept Him as your Savior.

all sin means the sin of all people, not every sin they ever committed or will commit

that would make what John says a lie

I do not understand how that cannot be seen...they are not even my words

you cannot categorically state all sin and then John says confess your sins and God will forgive you

it may be seen as an attack by me to renew my mind according to the word and not according to a site that is written by a man whose personal interpretation has captivated him and a few others, but renew it with scripture I will

and if someone wishes to say I am attacking, I suppose that is their perception

many people here accuse others of attacking when it is nothing more than a disagreement in what is believed

and thank you too

Grace777x70 · Sep 4, 2017

Meggido said:

I agree. Sinner is an "identity". Paul calls us "saints" around 68 times in his letters.

Were you on CC before under a different name? I see you started in may12/17 on CC.

If so, what was your other name?

dcontroversal · Sep 4, 2017

FlSnookman7 said:

I am often baffled how 2 people can read the same thing and get something completely different from it. I see the last sentence saying "the blood of Jesus, His Son,purifies us from ALL sin". It doesn't say past sin, it says all sin. If we are purified from all sin is that not perfection?

I have never nor will I ever say "go ahead and sin we are covered by grace" nor have I ever seen anyone else here say that. What I do know is that the where sin abounds grace abounds more (Rom 5:20). This does NOT mean we are to continue in sin, in fact paul says how can we who are DEAD to sin continue in it? I think the misunderstanding occurs because we as humans find it so hard to believe that once saved we are in fact a new creation and it is FROM that that our good works will flow not the other way around.

Again, I want to be clear, SIN IS BAD, DO NOT DO IT! I also want to be clear that whether we agree or disagree I know for sure that I need to love you as Jesus loves me and that I can only accomplish that through the power of God. If at any time I seem mean or attacking please know that is not my intent and let me know. Thank you.

I agree...the sins of the whole world were paid for in one shot across the bow....Jesus on the cross........

FlSnookman7 · Sep 4, 2017

7seasrekeyed said:

well, frankly I am equally baffled as to how someone interprets all sin as FUTURE sin

if you are not yet born and Jesus tarries (as they say in some circles) then your future sin is forgiven if you accept Him as your Savior.

all sin means the sin of all people, not every sin they ever committed or will commit

that would make what John says a lie

I do not understand how that cannot be seen...they are not even my words

you cannot categorically state all sin and then John says confess your sins and God will forgive you

it may be seen as an attack by me to renew my mind according to the word and not according to a site that is written by a man whose personal interpretation has captivated him and a few others, but renew it with scripture I will

and if someone wishes to say I am attacking, I suppose that is their perception

many people here accuse others of attacking when it is nothing more than a disagreement in what is believed

and thank you too

Also, very cool picture, I love dogs especially when they smile. Gotta run cya later!

7seasrekeyed · Sep 4, 2017

Meggido said:

that is biblical

Paul writes to the saints at Ephesus and so on...not the sinners...

save for Galatians, but he doesn't call them evil perverts either

we are IN Christ and righteous...but people are confused as to what exactly that means

saying you are righteous in God's eyes is true

saying you don't need to deal with sin because it is already forgiven, is not true

again, that would make John, who alone deals with the subject of light from the 4 gospels, a liar

Grace777x70 · Sep 4, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Behold the Lamb of God who "takes away" the sin of the world!

Meggido · Sep 4, 2017

dcontroversal said:

yet you continue to call yourself a sinner saved by grace and blast people that call themselves sin-forgiven saints who will still sin as people who practice sinless perfection....

or worse....you think they both mean the same thing....

Meggido · Sep 4, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Nobody disagrees with this....

dcontroversal · Sep 4, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

AND

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Desertsrose · Sep 4, 2017

MarcR said:

And/or old-timers that have become drifters/relaxers that need a booster shot.

Any level actually.

dcontroversal · Sep 4, 2017

Meggido said:

Do you still sin? YES
Are you saved by grace? YES

Like you, I rest my case...quit parroting what some guy taught you.....both are correct!

And to you last point....NO...I call people who say they don't sin, never sin, hardly sin or change sin into messing up while pushing a sinless salvation sinless perfectionists.....

Meggido · Sep 4, 2017

dcontroversal said:

such an elementary teaching that nobody disagrees with....

Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

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