Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

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the whole Bible folks

the entire thing

all the covenants...everything...gain understanding

no, you are not the nation of Israel, but you sure can learn a thing or two from them

all of it is written to YOU personally as an example if not personal application

refusing to see this, is in opposition to scripture

understanding is tantamount to comprehension here as I know some will disagree for lack of it

you don't know it, but I am on your side at least as much as was Paul and as all should be in understanding

that is why we are told

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
 
dcontroversal said:
Do you still sin? YES
Are you saved by grace? YES

Like you, I rest my case...quit parroting what some guy taught you.....both are correct!
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Paul taught this and in spades...I am glad to be parroting him

no sir, they are not at all the same thing

sinner-past old man, buried w/Christ...

Saint-new man, raised w/Christ....

Romans 6 and many other Epistles teach this....
 
7seasrekeyed said:
Here is something very helpful for those who have difficulty understanding what TRUE walking in the light is. It is not about perfection as some would have you believe or an accomplished place that you find yourself in

as with ALL the covenants in the Bible we have our part in the covenant...God extends the covenant and if we accept, it is half the writ

In the past, whenever I would come across this verse, the quiet, unexamined assumption of my heart was that “walking in the light” had something to do with behaving well. Correspondingly, walking in darkness had something to do with behaving badly.
But that’s not it at all.
Walking in the light has nothing to do with perfect behavior and everything to do with being known. Walking in the light means that we are willing to be known for who we really are (warts, sin, and all). It doesn’t mean we have perfected morality, just that we have stopped hiding.
Walking in darkness means we are still hiding, pretending, putting on airs, attempting to be seen in a certain way, presenting an image that doesn’t reflect the inner reality of our hearts. Walking in darkness is the result of submitting to shame. It means we think we cannot afford to be known for who we really are, because we fear rejection, punishment, abandonment. Appearance is everything for those walking in darkness.
Darkness helps keep reality hidden. And we keep reality hidden because we fear that we need to perform well to be accepted. (Isn’t this the message many of us grew up with?) So we try to appear better than we actually are in an attempt to find acceptance and value from God and other people. Ironically, it never works, because the only way to actually walk with God is to walk with him in the light.

The good news is that we actually can be known for who we really are, because our acceptance is not based on our performance, it’s based on God’s love for us. Walking in the light isn’t something you have to “work up” to, because it isn’t about becoming awesome at life, it’s simply about letting reality be known. Coming into the light, willing to be seen, willing to be known. Walking in the light means actuality over appearance.

This terrifies most people, but it’s the only way we ever really find life. The cool thing is that we can actually start walking in the light today. It simply means giving up the games we play, letting down our defenses and pretenses and “get real” with God and others. As soon as we are willing to be known for who we really are, God’s healing work begins.

We find that the light we are walking in isn’t harsh, it doesn’t shame us, doesn’t make us sweat. Instead it is a healing light that allows us to rest in the love of God. The beautiful promise for those who walk in the light is that we have actual fellowship with one another, which means we really know other people, and they really know us.

The second part of the promise is that the blood of Jesus purifies us from all sin. So we actually can afford to come into the light, stay there, and walk in the light, because when we notice sin (because it’s obvious in the light!), we don’t hide it or pretend it isn’t there, we simply give it to Jesus, and his blood purifies us from it, healing us as we walk with others in the light of his presence.

How can you put this into practice? Think about ways you hide from God and others. How can you take a step “into the light” today, sharing more vulnerably with others?

ARTICLE SOURCE

please note that Ben believes in making disciples...NOT revivalists
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This was an excellent article! :)
 
thx for the rep on the link I provided...think it was u stunned?

if not...no worries

but that is an article I agree with and I'm going to check around the site more...just found it but I like what he says so far

:)
 
Meggido said:
Paul taught this and in spades...I am glad to be parroting him

no sir, they are not at all the same thing

sinner-past old man, buried w/Christ...

Saint-new man, raised w/Christ....

Romans 6 and many other Epistles teach this....
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Exactly....a sinner saved by grace...and I remember you post awhile back about your mentor or pastor or some guy making the very comment you push about a saint that still sins....very deceptive bro to twist it to Paul
 
Meggido said:
stop repeating and parroting the elementary teachings and we will not continue to call you out on it...
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I did not address you....go mouth someone else....! and the word is the word is the word....accept the truth and maybe you will not be so convicted by the elementary teaching!
 
Grace777x70 said:
That is not true. In reality what some people are saying is that in the New Covenant people don't need to forgive "in order to be forgiven" as in the Old Covenant way.

​Your argument is with Jesus and His word, I'm simply repeating what He's taught us.

What you have wrong is that in reality, God will forgive. Just like if we do something wrong at home. We know our parents love us and will forgive us. But they don't forgive us before I wrecked the car or before I forgot to pick up Susie at the dentist.

Forgiveness is in real time. And the idea that if we forgive is because there are those who will not forgive. Those who will not forgive, will not be forgiven either. My opinion is that they are the tares and the false teachers teachers who won't forgive, therefore they won't receive forgiveness either.

But when we are expressing Christ - the new creation in Him - then we will by default as we walk by the spirit forgive because we are one with the ultimate "Forgiver". It will be His life manifesting in and through us to others.

The problem with that is that we aren't obeying the Lord 24/7. We still deal with ugliness of the old man, we still lash out or get angry. We still have jealousies and moments of greed. Fill in the blank. We are all growing and sinning less and less, but as long as we still have our old selves to deal with, we will never reach sinless perfection. We will always need to forgive and there are times we may not want to. That scripture in 1 John is to remind us that forgiveness is necessary for the new creation is Christ. It's one of the ways we can test our faith. If will still have hate in our hearts for our brothers, we are not Christians.



Trying to fit what Peter and Paul said in Acts 10 and 13 - in their word-for-word accounts of preaching the true gospel of the grace of Christ can "conflict" with some of our religious beliefs.

The truth is that they did not say. "you must forgive others before you can receive Christ's forgiveness - obtained by God's riches in grace which He purchased with His own blood for an eternal redemption and the complete forgiveness of sins"

There is no "conditional" forgiveness which is contingent on us forgiving first in the New Covenant which started after the Cross and Jesus fulfilled the law for us.

It's anti-the gospel. It is however 100% the law that we must forgive first in order to receive forgiveness in the law.

We forgive now because we are already forgiven in Christ. This is our new nature in Him in our inner man in Christ being expressed out to others.

Paul says in Eph. 4:22 to put on the new man in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness...then he shows us what this looks like in the next verses including this one below.

Ephesians 4:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
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​Your argument is with Jesus and His word, I'm simply repeating what He's taught us.

What you have wrong is that in reality, God will forgive. Just like if we do something wrong at home. We know our parents love us and will forgive us. But they don't forgive us before I wrecked the car or before I forgot to pick up Susie at the dentist.

Forgiveness is in real time. And the idea that if we forgive is because there are those who will not forgive. Those who will not forgive, will not be forgiven either. My opinion is that they are the tares and the false teachers teachers who won't forgive, therefore they won't receive forgiveness either.

The problem with that is that we aren't obeying the Lord 24/7. We still deal with ugliness of the old man, we still lash out or get angry. We still have jealousies and moments of greed. Fill in the blank. We are all growing and sinning less and less, but as long as we still have our old selves to deal with, we will never reach sinless perfection. We will always need to forgive and there are times we may not want to. That scripture in 1 John is to remind us that forgiveness is necessary for the new creation is Christ. It's one of the ways we can test our faith.

If will still have hate in our hearts for our brothers, we are not Christians.
 
Desertsrose said:
​Your argument is with Jesus and His word, I'm simply repeating what He's taught us.

What you have wrong is that in reality, God will forgive. Just like if we do something wrong at home. We know our parents love us and will forgive us. But they don't forgive us before I wrecked the car or before I forgot to pick up Susie at the dentist.

Forgiveness is in real time. And the idea that if we forgive is because there are those who will not forgive. Those who will not forgive, will not be forgiven either. My opinion is that they are the tares and the false teachers teachers who won't forgive, therefore they won't receive forgiveness either.

The problem with that is that we aren't obeying the Lord 24/7. We still deal with ugliness of the old man, we still lash out or get angry. We still have jealousies and moments of greed. Fill in the blank. We are all growing and sinning less and less, but as long as we still have our old selves to deal with, we will never reach sinless perfection. We will always need to forgive and there are times we may not want to. That scripture in 1 John is to remind us that forgiveness is necessary for the new creation is Christ. It's one of the ways we can test our faith.

If will still have hate in our hearts for our brothers, we are not Christians.
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this is so true!

but see, this is where denying what Christ taught is so dangerous...it leads to a false gospel and a false forgiveness which, it seems to me, equals false or hyper grace

the way you worded it, I can see God, as our Father, shaking His head at Billy and going 'that Billy! he is about to commit armed robbery but it's ok! he believes in me and I will forgive it.'

I'm not sure that is even an extreme case since Jesus equals lust with actual adultery..the logical pursuit of that statement seems to put a big lasso on our thoughts that indicate equal gravity whether thought or deed
 
Desertsrose said:
​Your argument is with Jesus and His word, I'm simply repeating what He's taught us.

What you have wrong is that in reality, God will forgive. Just like if we do something wrong at home. We know our parents love us and will forgive us. But they don't forgive us before I wrecked the car or before I forgot to pick up Susie at the dentist.

Forgiveness is in real time. And the idea that if we forgive is because there are those who will not forgive. Those who will not forgive, will not be forgiven either. My opinion is that they are the tares and the false teachers teachers who won't forgive, therefore they won't receive forgiveness either.

The problem with that is that we aren't obeying the Lord 24/7. We still deal with ugliness of the old man, we still lash out or get angry. We still have jealousies and moments of greed. Fill in the blank. We are all growing and sinning less and less, but as long as we still have our old selves to deal with, we will never reach sinless perfection. We will always need to forgive and there are times we may not want to. That scripture in 1 John is to remind us that forgiveness is necessary for the new creation is Christ. It's one of the ways we can test our faith.

If will still have hate in our hearts for our brothers, we are not Christians.
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If people are not Christians - then preach the gospel to them and then they will have the "Forgiver" in their heart and become new creations in Him.

For us that are Christians now - there is no old man left. We need the renewing of the mind to the realities of Christ so that His life can be manifested to others which includes forgiving those that have wronged us.

We forgive now because we have been forgiven and it is all based on what Christ has already done.

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

We are in the kingdom of God now where the forgiveness of sins based on the blood of Jesus is continually cleansing us just like 1 John 1:7 says.

Colossians 1:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

[SUP]14 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:


Now because of our new heart we forgive because we are forgiven by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:30-32 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

[SUP]31 [/SUP] Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.

[SUP]32 [/SUP] Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

Colossians 3:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;

[SUP]13 [/SUP] bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
 
7seasrekeyed said:
well, frankly I am equally baffled as to how someone interprets all sin as FUTURE sin

if you are not yet born and Jesus tarries (as they say in some circles) then your future sin is forgiven if you accept Him as your Savior.

all sin means the sin of all people, not every sin they ever committed or will commit

that would make what John says a lie

I do not understand how that cannot be seen...they are not even my words

you cannot categorically state all sin and then John says confess your sins and God will forgive you

it may be seen as an attack by me to renew my mind according to the word and not according to a site that is written by a man whose personal interpretation has captivated him and a few others, but renew it with scripture I will

and if someone wishes to say I am attacking, I suppose that is their perception

many people here accuse others of attacking when it is nothing more than a disagreement in what is believed


and thank you too
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If it were not all sin, then Christ's mission was only partially completed.
He took it all, not just some. You can't logically parlay that into different tenses based on our understanding of time.
Jesus cannot be recrucified to pay for future sin.
 
Limey410v2 said:
If it were not all sin, then Christ's mission was only partially completed.
He took it all, not just some. You can't logically parlay that into different tenses based on our understanding of time.
Jesus cannot be recrucified to pay for future sin.
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you do understand that time is not a 3D affair for God?

no one has disputed Christ died for all sin

kindly equate I john into that and see something a little different perhaps

and you might also confer with Paul and Jesus regarding the sin we commit

I never ever said what you appear to understand from what I wrote and sure do wish people would understand that
 
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

According to the grace of God....laid, and built upon.


 
7seasrekeyed said:
you do understand that time is not a 3D affair for God?

no one has disputed Christ died for all sin

kindly equate I john into that and see something a little different perhaps

and you might also confer with Paul and Jesus regarding the sin we commit

I never ever said what you appear to understand from what I wrote and sure do wish people would understand that
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Of course I understand that, yet if God does something now, it is done now. If He did something then, it was done then. There are actions that God accomplishes that have finality. The crucifixion and it's purpose was completed once and once only for all. Your future sins are covered by that event.
Your point is that we have some say whether or not that event applies, by our continued repentance of sins you allege applies in the scripture.
 
Yes he does, and that difference between he and Satan's condemnation is, the Holy Spirit will draw you to Christ unto confession to restore fellowship. Satan will drive you away, shaming you to condemnation, but we know there is therefore no condemnation to those in Christ. Too many listen to Satan, instead of quoting Romans 8:1 to him
 
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