Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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3M comes to my house one a year to draw blood. They say they use my DNA for the base of the formula. :D
HAHAHHA 3M makes the best products.....Worked as a machinist for 14 years making parts for jets, missiles, space shuttle etc....the only Band Aids that I found that would stay on wet were made by 3M.......hah
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Dictionaries define righteousness as “behavior that is morally justifiable or right.” Such behavior is characterized by accepted standards of morality, justice, virtue, or uprightness. The Bible’s standard of human righteousness is God’s own perfection in every attribute, every attitude, every behavior, and every word. Thus, God’s laws, as given in the Bible, both describe His own character and constitute the plumb line by which He measures human righteousness.

The Greek New Testament word for “righteousness” primarily describes conduct in relation to others, especially with regards to the rights of others in business, in legal matters, and beginning with relationship to God. It is contrasted with wickedness, the conduct of the one who, out of gross self-centeredness, neither reveres God nor respects man. The Bible describes the righteous person as just or right, holding to God and trusting in Him (
Psalm 33:18–22).

The bad news is that true and perfect righteousness is not possible for man to attain on his own; the standard is simply too high. The good news is that true righteousness is possible for mankind, but only through the cleansing of sin by Jesus Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

We have no ability to achieve righteousness in and of ourselves. But Christians possess the righteousness of Christ, because “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (
2 Corinthians 5:21). This is an amazing truth. On the cross, Jesus exchanged our sin for His perfect righteousness so that we can one day stand before God and He will see not our sin, but the holy righteousness of the Lord Jesus.

This means that we are made righteous in the sight of God; that is, that we are accepted as righteous and treated as righteous by God on account of what the Lord Jesus has done. He was made sin; we are made righteousness. On the cross, Jesus was treated as if He were a sinner, though He was perfectly holy and pure, and we are treated as if we were righteous, though we are defiled and
depraved. On account of what the Lord Jesus has endured on our behalf, we are treated as if we had entirely fulfilled the Law of God and had never become exposed to its penalty. We have received this precious gift of righteousness from the God of all mercy and grace. To Him be the glory!
https://www.gotquestions.org/righteousness.html
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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The Bible clearly states that human beings cannot achieve righteousness through their own efforts: "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." (Romans 3:20, NIV). The law, or the Ten Commandments, shows us how far we fall short of God's standards. The only solution to that dilemma is God's plan of salvation.

People receive righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ as Savior. Christ, the sinless Son of God, took humanity's sin upon Himself and became the willing, perfect sacrifice, suffering the punishment mankind deserved. God the Father accepted Jesus' sacrifice, through which human beings can become justified. In turn, believers receive righteousness from Christ.

This doctrine is called imputation. Christ's perfect righteousness is applied to imperfect humans. The Old Testament tells us that because of the sin of Adam, we, his descendants, have inherited his sinful nature. God set up a system in Old Testament times in which people sacrificed animals to atone for their sins. The shedding of blood was required. When Jesus entered the world, things changed. His crucifixion and resurrection satisfied God's justice.

Christ's shed blood covers our sins. No more sacrifices or works are required. The Apostle Paul explains how we receive righteousness through Christ in the book of Romans. Salvation through this crediting of righteousness is a free gift, which is the doctrine of grace. Salvation by grace through faith in Jesus is the essence of Christianity. No other religion offers grace. They all require some type of works on behalf of the participant.
https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-righteousness-700695
Bummer I'm stuffed.
Sorry I mean I was stuffed.

Been down that route for most of my Christian life.
Boy what a heavy burden to carry.

Starting to learn to give my heavy burden to Jesus and take his yoke upon me.

Mine is heavy his is light.

Follow me, trust me and I will help you, will be with forever.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Dictionaries define righteousness as “behavior that is morally justifiable or right.” Such behavior is characterized by accepted standards of morality, justice, virtue, or uprightness. The Bible’s standard of human righteousness is God’s own perfection in every attribute, every attitude, every behavior, and every word. Thus, God’s laws, as given in the Bible, both describe His own character and constitute the plumb line by which He measures human righteousness.

The Greek New Testament word for “righteousness” primarily describes conduct in relation to others, especially with regards to the rights of others in business, in legal matters, and beginning with relationship to God. It is contrasted with wickedness, the conduct of the one who, out of gross self-centeredness, neither reveres God nor respects man. The Bible describes the righteous person as just or right, holding to God and trusting in Him (
Psalm 33:18–22).

The bad news is that true and perfect righteousness is not possible for man to attain on his own; the standard is simply too high. The good news is that true righteousness is possible for mankind, but only through the cleansing of sin by Jesus Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

We have no ability to achieve righteousness in and of ourselves. But Christians possess the righteousness of Christ, because “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (
2 Corinthians 5:21). This is an amazing truth. On the cross, Jesus exchanged our sin for His perfect righteousness so that we can one day stand before God and He will see not our sin, but the holy righteousness of the Lord Jesus.

This means that we are made righteous in the sight of God; that is, that we are accepted as righteous and treated as righteous by God on account of what the Lord Jesus has done. He was made sin; we are made righteousness. On the cross, Jesus was treated as if He were a sinner, though He was perfectly holy and pure, and we are treated as if we were righteous, though we are defiled and
depraved. On account of what the Lord Jesus has endured on our behalf, we are treated as if we had entirely fulfilled the Law of God and had never become exposed to its penalty. We have received this precious gift of righteousness from the God of all mercy and grace. To Him be the glory!
https://www.gotquestions.org/righteousness.html
AMEN...............Many will be the number that think their works saved them or embellished their salvation.....bad day for then indeed.....
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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I should have put perished in quotes in "it 'perished' in the heart of soil #2" to avoid the misunderstanding. What happens is the soil expels the word. And so in that way the word perishes:The soil is the problem. Not the word of God.
Wow, how powerful man is to you, and yet how weak the Word to you at the same time.

Jesus' Word will never perish, but you say it will in this instance. I'd say wonder who is correct here, but there is no need to wonder.

The Word didn't perish my friend, in the persons heart, or otherwise.

I've asked you this before concerning some of your heterodox interpretations, can you provide other authorities who have stated this, or are you shooting from the hip, again?

Perhaps you got your lasagna illustration from Ferdinando di Diano, the Italian theologian, ciao? :D ;)
 
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willybob

Guest
To get anywhere in life one has to extend an effort (common sense). There is no difference when it comes to working out your own salvation. Yes God does “energio”/energies that effort with the power of grace, but it’s you who must do the work of faith..Philip. 2-12,13 same thing as Eph. 2:8,9,10……................let no man deceive you, he that does righteousness is righteous, and he that sins is of the devil. In this are we either adopted into the family of God, or of Satan, we chose our own parents by our works done in faith…Jesus talked about the great effort that is necessary, and counting the cost, even before we get started…the cost to build on the Rock is conditionally a high one, and the cost to build on a shotty foundation is not …kinda like building to an electrical code and building material specs. Put in the effort to build it to code on a strong foundation, or use cheap and easy wiring, and suffer the consequences, in that you will reap what you sow as the whole house will burn down……..be blessed
i think it was Jesus that said; strive ("agōnizomai", the word for agonize) to enter therein, for few be that make it...the word strive is rooted in tribulation...all saints suffer the agonizing walk of tribulation in the church era...the apostle John said he is our companion is tribulation, even to his comrades in the first century..
 
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willybob

Guest
D
The Bible clearly states that human beings cannot achieve righteousness through their own efforts: "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." (Romans 3:20, NIV). The law, or the Ten Commandments, shows us how far we fall short of God's standards. The only solution to that dilemma is God's plan of salvation.



People receive righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ as Savior. Christ, the sinless Son of God, took humanity's sin upon Himself and became the willing, perfect sacrifice, suffering the punishment mankind deserved. God the Father accepted Jesus' sacrifice, through which human beings can become justified. In turn, believers receive righteousness from Christ.

This doctrine is called imputation. Christ's perfect righteousness is applied to imperfect humans. The Old Testament tells us that because of the sin of Adam, we, his descendants, have inherited his sinful nature. God set up a system in Old Testament times in which people sacrificed animals to atone for their sins. The shedding of blood was required. When Jesus entered the world, things changed. His crucifixion and resurrection satisfied God's justice.

Christ's shed blood covers our sins. No more sacrifices or works are required. The Apostle Paul explains how we receive righteousness through Christ in the book of Romans. Salvation through this crediting of righteousness is a free gift, which is the doctrine of grace. Salvation by grace through faith in Jesus is the essence of Christianity. No other religion offers grace. They all require some type of works on behalf of the participant.
https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-righteousness-700695
Daniel, Job, and Noah i would suppose were human beings, and Ezekiel said they were delivered by their own righteousness, as is also said of Abraham in Gen 26...

verse 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws......... ( imagine that):confused:
 
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D

Daniel, Job, and Noah i would suppose were human beings, and Ezekiel said they were delivered by their own righteousness, as is also said of Abraham in Gen 26...

verse 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws......... ( imagine that):confused:
Imagine putting that in context and quoting what was said instead of your embellishment.......such as...Abraham believed God and it was put to his account for righteousness......which led Paul to conclude that a man was justified by faith without works......
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Imagine putting that in context and quoting what was said instead of your embellishment.......such as...Abraham believed God and it was put to his account for righteousness......which led Paul to conclude that a man was justified by faith without works......
James 2
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Paul and James both taught Truth so it can only be interpretation of their writings that error.

I guess the confusion comes by what each of them mean by works.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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i think it was Jesus that said; strive ("agōnizomai", the word for agonize) to enter therein, for few be that make it...the word strive is rooted in tribulation...all saints suffer the agonizing walk of tribulation in the church era...the apostle John said he is our companion is tribulation, even to his comrades in the first century..
Might mean to strive against false doctrines and lies against the truth don't ya think? ;)
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Romans 4

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yetuncircumcised.



Paul clearly Teaching that circumcision was a seal of Righteousness by Faith and not what made a man righteous before GOD.

Paul trying to show how the New Testament was the promise to Abraham and the Old was part of bringing to pass the promise.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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No need to be rude and make pointed mouthy remarks because I disagree and make a point.....this attitude is what causes most strife on this site.....and there are a few that cannot help but deride, chide and mouth every time they disagree....and I thought I approached you decent and in order...thanks anyway!
I wasn't being rude or mouthy, and I wasn't deriding you. As far as I knew, I was just having a conversation...I'm in great confusion over how you could have taken me that way, but it's okay. :)
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Matthew 5

5 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


______________

open question for anyone who wishes to share what they believe God has shown them regarding this verse


what does the bolded text mean to us?
(in context)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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true Peter...............the covenant relationship is often compared to a marital covenant in the text
Don't you mean a marital relationship? That is personal, and something you pooh-pooh.

[video=youtube;DXDGE_lRI0E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXDGE_lRI0E[/video]
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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it would seem to some that if the wife prepared an evening meal for her returning husband, while cleaning the house, washing the laundry, and making everything ready, then the husband comes home and asks; what are you doing? You know you cant please me because all of your works are as filthy rags:confused:
He did not marry her because she did all those things for him.
 
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James 2
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Paul and James both taught Truth so it can only be interpretation of their writings that error.

I guess the confusion comes by what each of them mean by works.
There is no confusion taken in context........

Romans-->Paul--->Justified before God by faith without works
James--->James-->The above is seen before MEN by works

Works do not save or keep saved
 
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I wasn't being rude or mouthy, and I wasn't deriding you. As far as I knew, I was just having a conversation...I'm in great confusion over how you could have taken me that way, but it's okay. :)

If I read it wrong then I apologize........peace.
 
B

Boltz44

Guest
From a previous post on my blog Know His Word:
Now we get to the scripture referred to in James, the testing of Abraham's' faith. Heb 11:17-18 says By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: God now instructs Abraham And he said,Take now thyson, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. Gen 22:2 While there is nothing recorded as to the feelings of Sarah, his mother. The scripture is silent, as we must be. But I can’t help but wonder what she thought. Now the land of Moriah was a three day journey from where they were. Notice what they took with them And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him. Upon arrival Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. Notice he says they will come again to you He knew he was to offer up Isaac as a burnt offering, how could he say that? The scripture says of Abraham; accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. Heb 11:19 Let us look at this scene for a moment. I see Isaac carrying the wood for the sacrifice, I see the fire for the burnt offering, which was to be Isaac. I see the two of them on the mountain ALONE, NO WITNESSES. So what if we were there. “Hey Abraham, what are you about to do?” Offer my Son Isaac as a burnt offering. “Who told you to do that”? GOD DID. “REALLY!!” “are you sure, Isaac is YOUR ONLY SON, through him are you to have offspring as the stars of the sky. If you kill him do you think that will happen?” YES!! “WHY??” I believe God will raise him from the dead! NOW THATS FAITH! The obedience of Abraham, And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, here [am] I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me. Gen 22:10-12 And what is it James says?; And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. James 2:23 WHAT SCRIPTURE? Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. His faith was demonstrated by his works. This was a work of faith, different from a work performed through a legalistic relationship. It was spiritual in its roots. Before he ever offered up Isaac, Abraham was declared righteous by God for his faith, just as we are for ours. Did his faith produce works? It did, what kind? Spiritual works, works that when done glorify God.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
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There is no confusion taken in context........

Romans-->Paul--->Justified before God by faith without works
James--->James-->The above is seen before MEN by works

Works do not save or keep saved

Both spoke of Abraham.. and one states he was justified by works and then elaborates...the other states He was not justified by works as in circumcision. Both speak of Faith.

both knew Faith that worketh love was Faith that we are to have.

Faith alone is dead James states.

Believe GOD as Abraham did through the Lord's Testimony.

Faith is perfected by works.. what works? The Master gave us our instructions.

works are part of Faith.. whether you believe it or not.. those that Hear His voice are not deceived by those that misunderstand what Paul was teaching.

cart before the horse? ..

No.. it was always the Good Shepherd before the sheep leading them on the path of Righteousness.

May we all believe unto the saving of our souls.

Author of Everlasting life to those that obey Him.
 
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From a previous post on my blog Know His Word:
Now we get to the scripture referred to in James, the testing of Abraham's' faith. Heb 11:17-18 says By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: God now instructs Abraham And he said,Take now thyson, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. Gen 22:2 While there is nothing recorded as to the feelings of Sarah, his mother. The scripture is silent, as we must be. But I can’t help but wonder what she thought. Now the land of Moriah was a three day journey from where they were. Notice what they took with them And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him. Upon arrival Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. Notice he says they will come again to you He knew he was to offer up Isaac as a burnt offering, how could he say that? The scripture says of Abraham; accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. Heb 11:19 Let us look at this scene for a moment. I see Isaac carrying the wood for the sacrifice, I see the fire for the burnt offering, which was to be Isaac. I see the two of them on the mountain ALONE, NO WITNESSES. So what if we were there. “Hey Abraham, what are you about to do?” Offer my Son Isaac as a burnt offering. “Who told you to do that”? GOD DID. “REALLY!!” “are you sure, Isaac is YOUR ONLY SON, through him are you to have offspring as the stars of the sky. If you kill him do you think that will happen?” YES!! “WHY??” I believe God will raise him from the dead! NOW THATS FAITH! The obedience of Abraham, And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, here [am] I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me. Gen 22:10-12 And what is it James says?; And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. James 2:23 WHAT SCRIPTURE? Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. His faith was demonstrated by his works. This was a work of faith, different from a work performed through a legalistic relationship. It was spiritual in its roots. Before he ever offered up Isaac, Abraham was declared righteous by God for his faith, just as we are for ours. Did his faith produce works? It did, what kind? Spiritual works, works that when done glorify God.
Abraham was justified by faith some 30 plus years before he offered Isaac, before he was circumcised, Paul said that Abraham believed God and it was put to his account for righteousness....and then concluded that a man is justified by faith void of works!