Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

[dcontroversal]

Although I must disagree with you that a true convert remains worldly, I wish to address the above.

That fault of those who remain stunted in their growth lies with at least two persons: themselves and their pastor.

It's been said by many pastors to their congregations for years: "Today I am preaching milk to you, bottom shelf theology, putting the cookie jar, theologically speaking on the bottom shelf!" (They say this as if they should receive praise for stooping so low for others off of their high theological pedestal!)

And they've done this for years, feeding them milk, and then wonder why a Christian of 30 years in church still has the head of an infant and the same mentality, spiritually speaking.

Perhaps the pastors themselves haven't begun to understand the Word and meat of the Word, and aren't yet weaned themselves?

I did not say the bolded......

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

I also want to add...

Some remain stunted in their growth and maturity
Some are never taught or are given milk their whole lives
Some are worldly in their approach to God

this = works of wood, hay and stubble, but still saved......

 

[Meggido]

He didn't teach pharisaic law, that is why the Pharisees wanted Him dead.

Ok...what Law was Jesus teaching people?

 

[stonesoffire]

Jesus preached the Spirit of the law, against the Pharisaical way of living. Of obedience by rote, or acting, as in cleaning the outer, but within remaining evil. Or simply, human.

Kingdom living is out of the inner man. And He was preparing His own to receive Holy Spirit. That is the Kingdom He was proclaiming to come, the kingdom of God within man.

 

[joaniemarie]

so we have gone from 'we don't have to ask for forgiveness anymore because we are in the light to 'we don't have to listen to Jesus because He taught the law'

that is what people learn from Ellis and others of the new theology school of 'we know better than God'

he has some very attentive students

there is wickedness in that teaching

how many here think we don't have to listen to Jesus because He was speaking to the Jews? or teaching the law or law?

As a believer., I'm now forgiven and walk in forgiveness and newness of life. What I'm doing each day is "receiving". And to receive., I have to know and learn what the promises are that I have been freely given so I need to be learning about Jesus and His promises. That will be a life long process. To know HIM and the power of HIS resurrection.

We have been given all spiritual blessings in the heavenly places. And where is that? It's in Jesus. We have everything we need to be more than conquerors and need to walk it out by faith.

So to say that we don't listen to Jesus is false. We have to hear the truth via the Word and the Holy Spirit witnessing to our spirit to know how to walk it out. It's just like being a baby again. Only we have to un-learn our old way of life by re learning how to do things all over again. The new and LIVING way.

We got saved by grace through faith., now as new creations we learn to LIVE by grace through faith. This new and living way is different than we used to live when we lived by our wits and old manner of life. Now we walk in newness of life. We have the promises., we have the Holy Spirit. We have the righteousness of Christ. Now we walk it out.

We no longer have to fight to BE righteous and stay righteous. We are saved and old things have passed away., behold all things have become new.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I would like to point out that Limey has diverted the op

the op is about whether or not the Holy Spirit convicts believers

we have had the easy grace crowd intercede on the behalf of prince and Ellis and of course when that fails to divert (well it did temporairly) we go to the law arguement

here is the op again because it seems the law diversion has worked and that is not what the thread is even about

Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

so does He?

 

[stonesoffire]

Limey diverted? Or was it those questioning him?

 

[Billyd]

I'm a little late to the discussion. Here's my humble opinion.

Before I was born again, God convicted me of my sins and sentenced be to death.

When I was saved, God forgave my sins and graciously gave me eternal life, and the Holy Spirit to guide me through the earthly journey of my eternal life.

Now that I am saved, the Holy Spirit doesn't convict me of my sin, He convinces me that what I am doing is a sin, and leads me to seek God's forgiveness for my sin. When I seek God's forgiveness, He is faithful and graciously restores my fellowship with Him.

A better discussion would be "How does the Holy Spirit work in you Life?"

 

[Billyd]

I would like to point out that Limey has diverted the op

the op is about whether or not the Holy Spirit convicts believers

we have had the easy grace crowd intercede on the behalf of prince and Ellis and of course when that fails to divert (well it did temporairly) we go to the law arguement

here is the op again because it seems the law diversion has worked and that is not what the thread is even about

Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

so does He?

No. He convinces the believer that what the believer is doing is sin.

 

[joaniemarie]

Originally Posted by Limey410v2

Do you believe that you can hurt God?

I actually do.

But do you believe that your apology is enough?

You think a simple sorry, forgive me, is sufficient?

Even a deep meaningful real apology, some gut felt tears, some real repentance, some real OMG?

I don't.

The ONLY thing that is sufficient to God is the spilled blood of Jesus and our recognition and acceptance of that sacrifice and the weight it carries. And the goal that it accomplished.

That is enough.



Wow., not sure how I missed this post of yours Limey! God bless you for posting this TRUTH. I came to see this truth some time ago and it was a real shock. I used to cry and even be sick with my remorse of sin. I'd cry a river and walk around the house in the mentality of sack cloth and ashes. My family suffered by my depression and self loathing. The guilt was so bad that I could hurt Jesus the way I had with my stupid sins.

But none of that moves God! None of all of my self pity and self loathing did a thing. What I should have done (but didn't know I could do) was RECEIVE the forgiveness for my sins and walk again in the newness of life that Jesus paid to give me. Instead I allowed the enemy to bring me back under the law of sin and death. I acted like a sinner who didn't have a Savior. I tried to pay for my sin by turning on myself and showing God how much I hated myself and my actions.

God wants us to see Jesus in all things., (even the Holy Spirit points to Jesus and not Himself) God wants us to allow His payment for our sins to COUNT... past., present and future. He already paid for those sins and I was freed from the guilt and shame and torment only I didn't know it back then.

Today I walk out the forgiveness He already paid for. When I sin., I come boldly to the throne of grace and receive grace and help in time of need. Alleluia what a Savior., what a salvation!

 

[NayborBear]

I would like to point out that Limey has diverted the op

the op is about whether or not the Holy Spirit convicts believers

we have had the easy grace crowd intercede on the behalf of prince and Ellis and of course when that fails to divert (well it did temporairly) we go to the law arguement

here is the op again because it seems the law diversion has worked and that is not what the thread is even about

Does the Holy Spirit convict the born again believer of sin?

so does He?

If you had been keeping up with that which has been posted, and not been blinded in anger, you may have noticed that, as this topic went along, it seems that there are "other" works afoot in a born again believer, that may seem, and feel like attaching the word "conviction" to, is in a very real sense the separating of "wheat from tares" by the Harvester Himself. This oft times happens during a "growth spurt". When a believer enters into one, or "another one" of the Father's Mansions.

People get so into like a "doggie on a leash" mindset, when they feel they have "fully grown" in one, er more, of these "mansions". That WHEN a believer goes into this separating of tares process, in entering another mansion? "This just isn't RIGHT!...this CANNOT be Of God, OR the Holy spirit!" (therefore) "This MUST be a "CONVICTION of the Holy Spirit!" Totally overlooking yet another "teaching" of Jesus! ie A "buffet style" believer. Taught this by other "buffet style" believers.

 

[preacher4truth]

I agree and disagree with ya here preacher. Agree, there are some pastors, let's call 'em blind, that have not yet, or, are unable to "pass on" any, or all of the "expierience" of one being confessed by Jesus to His Father! After all, it wasn't Jesus who created us, correct? Jesus is God, yes! Yet, in the O.T. Genesis...It wasn't Jesus who created the heavens and the earth correct? It wasn't Jesus who's Spirit moved upon the waters, correct?

I have to disagree with ya, that there are some "churches of stone", in some "communities", that certainly DISSUADE, ANY pastor, delving into these "deeper" spiritual endeavors, or maturations, or confessings unto the Father! As certainly as the pope is catholic, going into these "areas", spreads abject fear in the hearts of (seemingly) enough of a particular "church of stone" that even the mere mention, would expose those, who "keep the place going". Should a believer "sense" something like this is afoot?....A very good "signal" of this, can be the 'ol "revovling door", in a preacher's/pastor's "length of time" within that particular "church of stone." And a believer should run from the premises!

and then, there are the "hirelings". And I've seen these as well. Salesmen, who probably started out selling encyclopedia's, and found it a more lucrative endeavor of their skill set, in just switching the product, to Jesus! Very Shallow people!! Not a whole lot of difference between these "types", and lawyers, or politicians, save for their "legalistic" behavior. And, again, a believer who "senses" this?...RUN, from these "hands of full of well pleasers, and mouths full of MUCH OBLIGED!

Because, in the examples I listed, a believer who "sees" these kinds/types, in any particular "church of stone?", and feel they are not "being fed?" Because, they are already being confessed by Jesus to the Father? Are likely, in the hands of "harvesting angels", on the floor of the "threshing room", and/or, in the Hands of the Lord of the Harvest. And, believers, young and old need to "come to grips" with this/these "procedures." and act, or witness accordingly, to what they are experiencing. Just as this believer here, is doing, and has been trying to do for the past 3 years er so.

I tried to decipher all that run-on sentence stuff, and tried to figure out what you were saying, not saying, agreed with, disagreed with. To no avail.

#fail

 

[preacher4truth]

I did not say the bolded......

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

I also want to add...

Some remain stunted in their growth and maturity
Some are never taught or are given milk their whole lives
Some are worldly in their approach to God

this = works of wood, hay and stubble, but still saved......

I understand but in the context of your statement it can be taken that way as it implies "remain there" as a possibility, starting with the first sentence. No true convert will continue in worldliness.

But I am glad you cleared that up.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is the "twist" that some put into things which makes it deceitful. This is the very reason why not to interact with these types of behavior as no good can come from it.

Some say that people say they don't confess sins to God - "That is an all out lie and deceitfully speaking".

Believers in the grace of God in Christ says that "we don't confess sins "in order" to receive forgiveness because we believe the gospel message that our sins are forgiven in Christ because of His blood. Not that we don't confess sins to the Lord.

I have posted this many times but there are new readers to the thread so that there can be no more mis-representing of what is really being said - I'll post it again.

I too believe in confessing sin but NOT in order to receive forgiveness because I believe the gospel message of Christ that in Christ I have redemption the forgiveness of sins just like Paul said in Eph. 1:7. Col. 1:6

Sometimes people mis-interpret what is really being said and other times they deliberately mis-represent what is said too, so I will say this to hopefully stop both from occurring.

Here is what I do when I sin.

I love to kneel quickly and tell my Father how I trust in Him. How what I did was wrong.

Sometimes I use the word sin and sometimes I don't. I think that is irrelevant. I run to my Father and tell Him how that His Son is my Lord and is my life and my righteousness - that Jesus' Blood has secured my redemption and forgiveness of sins. I confess what God says about me. I tell Him I love Him and trust in Him.

I have not confessed sins nor asked for forgiveness in order to be forgiven for quite some time now because I believe in what Christ has already done for me on the cross and resurrection. But I always talk with my Lord about what I do or don't do.

You know - He always loves on me and tells me He loves me and that He is my life and strength. Sometimes I have felt a warm liquid like feeling of pure love fall on me and I just sit there in His presence and weep. I can't move a muscle. He is so mighty in power yet His love and total acceptance is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence.


To me - all sin is relational. All sin is a failure to see the life of Christ in me. I am ignorant of His life in me. To me - most outward sin is just a "fruit" of the real sin.

For example - If I steal something - that is a sin but the real sin behind that is the failure to recognize my Father will take care of me. I am operating in the flesh. I want to take things into my own hand and "do" things.

The other part is when you see how horrid it really is when we mess up....sin....transgress.... whatever term you want to use.

..what I see is my unbelief in the goodness and love of my Father and Lord Jesus for me. That is the horrid part because I know that is not Their character nor is it really my true nature now and what He has made me in Christ.

 

[preacher4truth]

No. He convinces the believer that what the believer is doing is sin.

Convict, convince, reprove are the same sense of the Greek word; John 16:8; 2 Timothy 4:2. They are both applicable to the lost and converted concerning their sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

I understand but in the context of your statement it can be taken that way as it implies "remain there" as a possibility, starting with the first sentence. No true convert will continue in worldliness.

But I am glad you cleared that up.

Cool and I knew what you meant as well....I had in mind what Jesus said in Luke and being weighed down with surfeiting, drunkenness and the cares of this life and the worldly approach by those who are immature in the faith.........Like I have said concerning those who think a church should entertain it's congregation dia rock bands, super bowl Sundays and give the dog a bone ministries.....

If one is won by the word they are kept by the word and if you want entertainment go buy a movie ticket

 

[joaniemarie]

Let's talk about OBEDIENCE.

First off,

YES! We have to obey what Jesus teaches.

Starting first with agreeing with Him about who He says we are.

There is no passing by this statement. You have to come in agreement with it, so the rest of His truth has a place to land in your heart.

If you don't obey who He says you are in Him, you'll go back to trying to be something instead of having faith in Him.

And THIS is disobedience.

Consider the accuser when he met Jesus.

God says this...

Mark 1:11 And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

Jesus is told He is a Son, He is loved, and God is well pleased with Him.

If Jesus is YOUR righteousness, why WOULDN'T you believe this about yourself?

I'll tell you why.

Because of your accuser.

Notice how Jesus is tested AFTER God just gets done telling Jesus He is His Son.

Matt 4:1Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”

How was Jesus temped? By the accuser questioning His identity.

The Accuser says, well if you're the Son of God like God says then DO this....

This is the temptation of the accuser.

You get to believe you are who He says you are. Or you can try to still try to be it.

One is obedience and the other is disobedience.

You get to choose.

But remember this, it is ONLY faith that pleases God.

Amen!!! Good post Cee. Also., another thing the devil didn't repeat and want to remind Jesus of is that His Father loves Him. The devil doesn't want us to remember either how much God in Christ loves us. Because perfect love casts out fear. The enemy doesn't want us to be close and intimate with God in love.

When there is no longer a certain expectation of judgment. There is no more fear because in fear there is torment. When you know you are loved and secure., you no longer fear. We have reverence/respect/awe and love for our Father but we don't fear Him. We no longer have to fear God because of Jesus our Great High Priest.

Although we know He is God and all righteous and all just and all holy. Although we know that there is no sin or any ugliness allowed in His presence., we can come BOLDLY to the throne of GRACE and find HELP in time of need because we go IN Jesus righteousness and in Jesus name. All the payment for perfection has been paid for in the perfect sacrifice of the Son.

We can only do that when we have learned to SEE Jesus and what He has done on our behalf. We don't go in our own righteousness. We go in the righteousness of Christ. And shocker of shocks., we are now the righteousness of God IN Christ!!

 

[NayborBear]

I tried to decipher all that run-on sentence stuff, and tried to figure out what you were saying, not saying, agreed with, disagreed with. To no avail.

#fail

Thaz alright preacher! My reply to your post may have been to you, but, (apparently) not for you. Many eyeballs reading the mail, yanno?

Many thanks for "grading" me on my grammar and sentence structure, though! Reckon I didn't miss my calling as a writer, eh?

 

[preacher4truth]

Cool and I knew what you meant as well....I had in mind what Jesus said in Luke and being weighed down with surfeiting, drunkenness and the cares of this life and the worldly approach by those who are immature in the faith.........Like I have said concerning those who think a church should entertain it's congregation dia rock bands, super bowl Sundays and give the dog a bone ministries.....

If one is won by the word they are kept by the word and if you want entertainment go buy a movie ticket

Man, I agree about this entertainment stuff! I read about a pastor that was preaching before their big dinner, and not many were there. Went downstairs after the service and the dinner hall was loaded with people waiting to eat. LOL!!!!!!! Puts a new light on Jesus telling the false followers that the only reason they were following him was because he gave them something to eat - John 6.

 

[preacher4truth]

Thaz alright preacher! My reply to your post may have been to you, but, (apparently) not for you. Many eyeballs reading the mail, yanno?

Many thanks for "grading" me on my grammar and sentence structure, though! Reckon I didn't miss my calling as a writer, eh?

lolzzz...well, was hoping you'd clear that up. Sorry, but it was really hard to follow. But hey, maybe you can write code for National security!

 

[stonesoffire]

Thaz alright preacher! My reply to your post may have been to you, but, (apparently) not for you. Many eyeballs reading the mail, yanno?

Many thanks for "grading" me on my grammar and sentence structure, though! Reckon I didn't miss my calling as a writer, eh?

I understood it. You were talking out of pictures from the scriptures in some places symbolically, and describing religious ways of churches in the same manner.

I really like the thought of the mansions as ways of thinking. Many rooms and each one separate thought but all together makes up the house.

Great minds think alike. Lol jk.